Ian Thompsen: C’s are “self-obssessed”

[Rosco917]

Give a man-child that has struggled his entire life 20 million a year, blindly hand a billion dollar franchise over to them and provide no discipline or direction.

Yeah, the results are predictable. 
 

And your options are that or watch them walk and watch your team fall to the Lottery with no guarantee of escaping in the short term.  Such is what today's NBA is all about.

My opinion is to provide discipline, along with veteran leadership to keep the learning process flowing. 

[SparzWizard]

Remember when Ime was literally making fun of Brad at the press conference about how terrible of a passing team we are?

 Not so funny now is it Ime. I feel like a basketball genius. Been saying for years we need an elite level passer.

 Chris Paul Lamelo Ball would transform this team overnight. Kyle Anderson Scottie Barnes please just get someone in here who's first priority is passing! It's contagious!!!

Ime Udoka should be the last person to make fun of anyone. Guy is trash

[PAOBoston]

We’re asking the most undisciplined player on the team not only to be a starter, but our starting point guard. 

Marcus just isn’t a great fit alongside the Jays.

Biggest mistake of the offseason.

[Erik]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

If we’re talking about the single most dream scenario that would push this team into a serious title contender, IMO it’s having Phil Jackson or Pop coach the team. Instead of trying to mold our stars into what worked for other champions, we should try to architect a system that works for their talents. I think someone like Phil or Pop would be able to do that correctly. I don’t believe that Ime has that kind of experience or commands that level of respect from the team to be able to pull that off.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

If we’re talking about the single most dream scenario that would push this team into a serious title contender, IMO it’s having Phil Jackson or Pop coach the team. Instead of trying to mold our stars into what worked for other champions, we should try to architect a system that works for their talents. I think someone like Phil or Pop would be able to do that correctly. I don’t believe that Ime has that kind of experience or commands that level of respect from the team to be able to pull that off.

This is what I've been saying. The Celtics (and most other teams in the league) should stop trying to be like the Curry Warriors and LeBron teams (because we don't have Curry or LeBron, and you can't duplicate them) and find what works for themselves. Or, the Cs could just keep having a bunch of mediocre-to-bad shooters miss open shot after open shot.

[Moranis]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

If we’re talking about the single most dream scenario that would push this team into a serious title contender, IMO it’s having Phil Jackson or Pop coach the team. Instead of trying to mold our stars into what worked for other champions, we should try to architect a system that works for their talents. I think someone like Phil or Pop would be able to do that correctly. I don’t believe that Ime has that kind of experience or commands that level of respect from the team to be able to pull that off.

Pop and Phil never really changed their systems, they just added role players in around the stars that could fill in the roles they needed.

Spo is the guy that I always think about as adapating to the players and not having the players adapt to him.  Very underrated coach all time.  I think you could reasonably argue he is a top 5 in history, but no one ever thinks of him like that. 

[Who]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

Agreed. Tatum's game does not gel that easily with others. He will have issues playing next to other stars. With lesser stars, maintaining team identity. With greater stars, moving into a secondary role and falling production.

I like Horford as an example. He is a great connector. He makes connections to everyone around him on both ends of the court (passing, screens, cuts, rebounds, defensive rotations, communication, rim protection, rebounding). He brings people together and makes them a unit. He is very good at that. Smart is pretty good at that too.

Neither Jaylen or Tatum are currently good at that. They are more self-generators. For how much they have the ball in their hands, for how many shots they take ... they do not create connections offensively with teammates.

[Erik]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

If we’re talking about the single most dream scenario that would push this team into a serious title contender, IMO it’s having Phil Jackson or Pop coach the team. Instead of trying to mold our stars into what worked for other champions, we should try to architect a system that works for their talents. I think someone like Phil or Pop would be able to do that correctly. I don’t believe that Ime has that kind of experience or commands that level of respect from the team to be able to pull that off.

Pop and Phil never really changed their systems, they just added role players in around the stars that could fill in the roles they needed.

Yep, that’s exactly what we need. We need them to build a system to our stars’ talents. This requires intentional, deep thinking about our specific needs and not just taking the best available or biggest name.

[Erik]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

Agreed. Tatum's game does not gel that easily with others. He will have issues playing next to other stars. With lesser stars, maintaining team identity. With greater stars, moving into a secondary role and falling production.

I like Horford as an example. He is a great connector. He makes connections to everyone around him on both ends of the court (passing, screens, cuts, rebounds, defensive rotations, communication, rim protection, rebounding). He brings people together and makes them a unit. He is very good at that. Smart is pretty good at that too.

Neither Jaylen or Tatum are currently good at that. They are more self-generators. For how much they have the ball in their hands, for how many shots they take ... they do not create connections offensively with teammates.

My opinion is that the best point guard for our team in its current form is someone with elite level 3 point shooting and good defense. If Smart could get his 3pt % to 40, he’d be the guy. You cannot put a weak (or even worse, a nonexistent) 3 point shooter next to the Jays. It creates too much defensive pressure on them.

[Moranis]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

If we’re talking about the single most dream scenario that would push this team into a serious title contender, IMO it’s having Phil Jackson or Pop coach the team. Instead of trying to mold our stars into what worked for other champions, we should try to architect a system that works for their talents. I think someone like Phil or Pop would be able to do that correctly. I don’t believe that Ime has that kind of experience or commands that level of respect from the team to be able to pull that off.

Pop and Phil never really changed their systems, they just added role players in around the stars that could fill in the roles they needed.

Yep, that’s exactly what we need. We need them to build a system to our stars’ talents. This requires intentional, deep thinking about our specific needs and not just taking the best available or biggest name.

You completely missed what I said.  Pop and Phil didn't adapt their system, they had a system and either you fit in or you were gone.  That isn't what you are suggesting at all. 

Spo is the guy you want.  He changes his system to fit his players.

[Somebody]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

Agreed. Tatum's game does not gel that easily with others. He will have issues playing next to other stars. With lesser stars, maintaining team identity. With greater stars, moving into a secondary role and falling production.

I like Horford as an example. He is a great connector. He makes connections to everyone around him on both ends of the court (passing, screens, cuts, rebounds, defensive rotations, communication, rim protection, rebounding). He brings people together and makes them a unit. He is very good at that. Smart is pretty good at that too.

Neither Jaylen or Tatum are currently good at that. They are more self-generators. For how much they have the ball in their hands, for how many shots they take ... they do not create connections offensively with teammates.

I agree with the premise of your post, but Jaylen's off-ball movement and ability to attack quickly makes me think that he'll fit next to other on-ball pieces nicely.

[Ogaju]

Y’all only react when talking heads make the same point we have been making for years. Maybe if you had to pay for our views you will take them more seriously.

Of course the Jays are self obsessed …I mentioned that the annual trip to one-on-one camps should be examined I don’t think that thread went beyond the OP.

HOW can the Jays learn how to play team ball when they spend their summers in one-on-one camps honing their ISO skills. Maybe the should attend some passing camps or camps on how to move without the ball.

[RockinRyA]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

If we’re talking about the single most dream scenario that would push this team into a serious title contender, IMO it’s having Phil Jackson or Pop coach the team. Instead of trying to mold our stars into what worked for other champions, we should try to architect a system that works for their talents. I think someone like Phil or Pop would be able to do that correctly. I don’t believe that Ime has that kind of experience or commands that level of respect from the team to be able to pull that off.

Phil jackson? The guy who expect people to work under the single system he has used over his career? You believe he will "architect" a system to fit his players?

[RJ87]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

Agreed. Tatum's game does not gel that easily with others. He will have issues playing next to other stars. With lesser stars, maintaining team identity. With greater stars, moving into a secondary role and falling production.

I like Horford as an example. He is a great connector. He makes connections to everyone around him on both ends of the court (passing, screens, cuts, rebounds, defensive rotations, communication, rim protection, rebounding). He brings people together and makes them a unit. He is very good at that. Smart is pretty good at that too.

Neither Jaylen or Tatum are currently good at that. They are more self-generators. For how much they have the ball in their hands, for how many shots they take ... they do not create connections offensively with teammates.

In Kemba's first season with us, he was an all-star, and Gordon was mostly healthy save for the broken hand and the ankle sprain in the bubble. That team was 3rd in the east and eventually went to the ECF. Jayson - an all-star himself that season - seemed to gel just fine.

If Kemba's knee had held up and Gordon never rolled his ankle, I think it would've been us vs. Lakers that year.

As far as Horford, he's been a mixed bag. His defense started out great, but it's been dipping. Cp3 cooked him. Fried chicken. On the other end, hes shooting 29% from 3. If he's going to shoot that badly, he should be benched.

[Atzar]

Something to consider: simply inserting a pass first point guard of let’s say Chris Paul’s caliber may not provide the expected results. There is a good chance that Tatum cannot produce at his current level in that system.

Agreed. Tatum's game does not gel that easily with others. He will have issues playing next to other stars. With lesser stars, maintaining team identity. With greater stars, moving into a secondary role and falling production.

I like Horford as an example. He is a great connector. He makes connections to everyone around him on both ends of the court (passing, screens, cuts, rebounds, defensive rotations, communication, rim protection, rebounding). He brings people together and makes them a unit. He is very good at that. Smart is pretty good at that too.

Neither Jaylen or Tatum are currently good at that. They are more self-generators. For how much they have the ball in their hands, for how many shots they take ... they do not create connections offensively with teammates.

In Kemba's first season with us, he was an all-star, and Gordon was mostly healthy save for the broken hand and the ankle sprain in the bubble. That team was 3rd in the east and eventually went to the ECF. Jayson - an all-star himself that season - seemed to gel just fine.

If Kemba's knee had held up and Gordon never rolled his ankle, I think it would've been us vs. Lakers that year.

As far as Horford, he's been a mixed bag. His defense started out great, but it's been dipping. Cp3 cooked him. Fried chicken. On the other end, hes shooting 29%. If he's going to shoot theat badly, he should be bench

FWIW, I was hoping we'd see the Schroder/Horford PnR as the engine of the second unit since the beginning of the season.  I feel like that could be a very dangerous option if surrounded by adequate shooting - say, Grant Williams, Langford (if his outside shooting is more than just a random hot streak), and whichever Jay stays on the court.  So I'd be pretty happy to see Horford off the bench not as a demotion, but because I think he'd potentially fit in very well with that personnel.