Idea: Jaylen for Hield and Fox

[jambr380]

I would love for the C's to include Smart in ANY deal they make, especially if it's for a PG like Fox. Maybe they'd add Bagley. He being useless in Sactown. #freebagley

Yeah, I mean, if we can get Fox for Smart and change, then of course you do it. It isn't even that far-fetched for SAC either to want a defensive-minded combo guard to pair with Haliburton. That's the thing, while they could likely do better than a Smart-centric package, SAC is going to need to make a decision on Fox/Hali. I would be in favor of trying to hold on to Schroder by offering whatever incentives necessary (not going to happen, I know), but his ceiling just isn't that of Fox's.

[todd_days_41]

No thanks



I rather see a healthy Brown playing along a Tatum out of his slump first before thinking about trading Brown for multiple pieces.

this, a thousand times, this

I don't think I follow. Haven't we seen a pretty good sample size of Brown and Tatum sharing the floor? If you're not into trading one of them -- i get it -- but wondering why we need to see Brown at full strength to know either way.

Or do you mean you think his value is down?

[wdleehi]

No thanks



I rather see a healthy Brown playing along a Tatum out of his slump first before thinking about trading Brown for multiple pieces.

this, a thousand times, this

I don't think I follow. Haven't we seen a pretty good sample size of Brown and Tatum sharing the floor? If you're not into trading one of them -- i get it -- but wondering why we need to see Brown at full strength to know either way.

Or do you mean you think his value is down?

No.   I mean both players are still growing in the NBA skills.  I want to see where they are now and where they can get to together before making any moves this season involving either.   

[testy]

The main concern about this trade is that we would be getting smaller and cap space would also be a potential problem. We need to get bigger all around.

[todd_days_41]

The main concern about this trade is that we would be getting smaller and cap space would also be a potential problem. We need to get bigger all around.

Huh? The Cs have plenty of problems -- length isn't one of 'em.

[slamtheking]

No thanks



I rather see a healthy Brown playing along a Tatum out of his slump first before thinking about trading Brown for multiple pieces.

this, a thousand times, this

I don't think I follow. Haven't we seen a pretty good sample size of Brown and Tatum sharing the floor? If you're not into trading one of them -- i get it -- but wondering why we need to see Brown at full strength to know either way.

Or do you mean you think his value is down?

No.   I mean both players are still growing in the NBA skills.  I want to see where they are now and where they can get to together before making any moves this season involving either.

exactly.

prior years showed them functioning well together resulting in deep playoff runs but they also had a vet on the team to relieve some of the scoring and leadership pressure.  I want to see how they play together as well as lead when there isn't a vet that can take that burden off their shoulders before I would consider moving either of them. 

I don't see a fit issue.  any issues with how they play together is something I direct at coaching, not them.  they don't have really overlapping games.  I think a PG that can run the offense and be a scoring threat would do wonders for this team.  the J's would have to be less focussed on running the offense and more focussed on getting open for passes that'll maximize their ability to score.

[nickagneta]

No thanks



I rather see a healthy Brown playing along a Tatum out of his slump first before thinking about trading Brown for multiple pieces.

this, a thousand times, this

I don't think I follow. Haven't we seen a pretty good sample size of Brown and Tatum sharing the floor? If you're not into trading one of them -- i get it -- but wondering why we need to see Brown at full strength to know either way.

Or do you mean you think his value is down?

No.   I mean both players are still growing in the NBA skills.  I want to see where they are now and where they can get to together before making any moves this season involving either.

exactly.

prior years showed them functioning well together resulting in deep playoff runs but they also had a vet on the team to relieve some of the scoring and leadership pressure.  I want to see how they play together as well as lead when there isn't a vet that can take that burden off their shoulders before I would consider moving either of them. 

I don't see a fit issue.  any issues with how they play together is something I direct at coaching, not them.  they don't have really overlapping games.  I think a PG that can run the offense and be a scoring threat would do wonders for this team.  the J's would have to be less focussed on running the offense and more focussed on getting open for passes that'll maximize their ability to score.

To expand on this, the Jays only took 100% control of the team last year during Covid, when they were 22 and 24 years of age. Both guys are years away from hitting their prime and have a lot of growth potential in them.

The problem isn't Tatum and Brown. The problem is surrounding them with complimentary players that will make the team better than the sum of its parts and coaching bringing that team together. Brown's injury obviously hasn't helped, but once he is back to being healthy, the front office and coaching staff need to maximize this team's abilities as the Jays enter their primes, which is probably, at a minimum, a year or two away.

Patience is needed, something most of this site's posters have none of, most of the time.

[todd_days_41]

Both guys are years away from hitting their prime and have a lot of growth potential in them.

Disagree. Brown is in his 6th NBA season, and Tatum his 5th. It's inaccurate to call them "years away from hitting their prime." They're largely the players they're likely to be in style, strengths, and weaknesses, in all likelihood. Room for growth and improvement? Certainly. But they ain't prospects, either. 

The problem isn't Tatum and Brown.

Maybe. Maybe not. You are what you're record says you are, and the recent positive trend has been with Brown in street clothes. As the team has transitioned to being the Js, they've regressed in record when sharing the floor. It's just a fact.

The problem is surrounding them with complimentary players that will make the team better than the sum of its parts and coaching bringing that team together.

Celtics have had a pretty large and wide variety of complimentary players in recent years. Heck, only Smart has been a consistent face in that crowd. Irving, Walker, Horford, Hayward, Morris, Fournier, etc etc. What didn't previous or current players offer that future ones will, when factoring our ability to acquire players with average-to-below-average assets to work with -- and when considered the assets listed above have largely been squandered, and draft picks have been suspect?

Patience is needed, something most of this site's posters have none of, most of the time.

The counter-argument to this is homerism, something most of this site's posters have plenty of. I'd rather not see either player traded, but what's the statute of limitations on mediocrity? If the Cs are a lottery team, or a first or second round exit team.... how long before they have to look in the mirror and proactively create a team that's ACTUALLY complimentary as a whole (not to both Tatum and Brown at once, who are not especially complimentary)?

Like, when will the JKJB crowd consider that might not be the best plan, if conditions remain as is -- even if he's a cool guy whose a good player and you like him alot?

This summer? This time next year? Next Summer? Will Tatum still be happy then if the Cs are a steady 6-8 seed?

[LilRip]

Gotta pass on this. I think we’re just not using Brown right when Tatum’s on the floor.

JB needs to think score first, dribble second, pass third. Can’t have 2 guys who love to iso. When JB gets it, he needs to score. Not create for others and definitely not dribble around.

[Kiorrik]

No thanks



I rather see a healthy Brown playing along a Tatum out of his slump first before thinking about trading Brown for multiple pieces.

this, a thousand times, this

I don't think I follow. Haven't we seen a pretty good sample size of Brown and Tatum sharing the floor? If you're not into trading one of them -- i get it -- but wondering why we need to see Brown at full strength to know either way.

Or do you mean you think his value is down?

No.   I mean both players are still growing in the NBA skills.  I want to see where they are now and where they can get to together before making any moves this season involving either.

exactly.

prior years showed them functioning well together resulting in deep playoff runs but they also had a vet on the team to relieve some of the scoring and leadership pressure.  I want to see how they play together as well as lead when there isn't a vet that can take that burden off their shoulders before I would consider moving either of them. 

I don't see a fit issue.  any issues with how they play together is something I direct at coaching, not them.  they don't have really overlapping games.  I think a PG that can run the offense and be a scoring threat would do wonders for this team.  the J's would have to be less focussed on running the offense and more focussed on getting open for passes that'll maximize their ability to score.

To expand on this, the Jays only took 100% control of the team last year during Covid, when they were 22 and 24 years of age. Both guys are years away from hitting their prime and have a lot of growth potential in them.

The problem isn't Tatum and Brown. The problem is surrounding them with complimentary players that will make the team better than the sum of its parts and coaching bringing that team together. Brown's injury obviously hasn't helped, but once he is back to being healthy, the front office and coaching staff need to maximize this team's abilities as the Jays enter their primes, which is probably, at a minimum, a year or two away.

Patience is needed, something most of this site's posters have none of, most of the time.

[Rosco917]

What's most interesting here is the varying opinions on Tatum, Brown and the Celtic team in general.

Too many give no creedence to overall team chemistry, ball movement, finding and developing open shooters, and finding a pace that fits the players on the team. All of these topics have one thing in common, they wear-out opposing defenses. 

It's Chess, not checkers.

[Moranis]

Brown's numbers are also down across the board this year, so it isn't just a Fox thing.  I don't really like Hield at all.  I'd much rather have Barnes or Bagley.  I probably wouldn't do it, but I'd at least consider Fox and Bagley for Brown and Hernangomez.  Schroder has shown what a real PG can do for the C's, but Tatum in particular, I just don't think he is here long term, and the team could do a lot worse than a guy like Fox going forward.  I'd certainly be worried about his numbers this year, but as I mentioned, it isn't like Brown is tearing it up either.  I've always liked Bagley.  He hasn't been able to stay healthy and Luke Walton was so bad as a coach that those things set him back some, but Bagley has immense talent.  If he could somehow be unlocked, it would be a huge get for the C's. 

[Kiorrik]

Brown's numbers are also down across the board this year, so it isn't just a Fox thing.  I don't really like Hield at all.  I'd much rather have Barnes or Bagley.  I probably wouldn't do it, but I'd at least consider Fox and Bagley for Brown and Hernangomez.  Schroder has shown what a real PG can do for the C's, but Tatum in particular, I just don't think he is here long term, and the team could do a lot worse than a guy like Fox going forward.  I'd certainly be worried about his numbers this year, but as I mentioned, it isn't like Brown is tearing it up either.  I've always liked Bagley.  He hasn't been able to stay healthy and Luke Walton was so bad as a coach that those things set him back some, but Bagley has immense talent.  If he could somehow be unlocked, it would be a huge get for the C's.

Brown's numbers down partly due to injury m8. Pre injury he scored about 15pts/game more than post.

This why we saying; give him some time.

[GreenShooter]

I would love for the C's to include Smart in ANY deal they make, especially if it's for a PG like Fox. Maybe they'd add Bagley. He being useless in Sactown. #freebagley

Yeah, I mean, if we can get Fox for Smart and change, then of course you do it. It isn't even that far-fetched for SAC either to want a defensive-minded combo guard to pair with Haliburton. That's the thing, while they could likely do better than a Smart-centric package, SAC is going to need to make a decision on Fox/Hali. I would be in favor of trying to hold on to Schroder by offering whatever incentives necessary (not going to happen, I know), but his ceiling just isn't that of Fox's.

Let's not forget that they also just drafted Davion Mitchell, whom I love, so yeah someone gots to go and since they're not playing Bagley he is also a goner. We'll see at the trade deadline what they do. I think a match could be made between these two teams. Getting Fox and Bagley would be a coup, not that I'm advocating for this trade. Just saying.

[Moranis]

Brown's numbers are also down across the board this year, so it isn't just a Fox thing.  I don't really like Hield at all.  I'd much rather have Barnes or Bagley.  I probably wouldn't do it, but I'd at least consider Fox and Bagley for Brown and Hernangomez.  Schroder has shown what a real PG can do for the C's, but Tatum in particular, I just don't think he is here long term, and the team could do a lot worse than a guy like Fox going forward.  I'd certainly be worried about his numbers this year, but as I mentioned, it isn't like Brown is tearing it up either.  I've always liked Bagley.  He hasn't been able to stay healthy and Luke Walton was so bad as a coach that those things set him back some, but Bagley has immense talent.  If he could somehow be unlocked, it would be a huge get for the C's.

Brown's numbers down partly due to injury m8. Pre injury he scored about 15pts/game more than post.

This why we saying; give him some time.

except he is always hurt and Boston is AGAIN better in the games he hasn't played as Boston is just 6-7 with Brown, but is 7-4 without him.  This continues the trend for the team that has existed since Tatum entered the league.  Boston wins at the same or a better pace when Brown isn't on the floor because imo Brown is just not a good fit with Tatum and when he isn't in the game, Tatum and everyone else just play better.