Poll: Question for the JKJB crowd

[Smartacus]

Greetings to everyone on JKJB Island. I come in peace from the Explore All Options Archipelago.

I'm not entirely opposed to the simplicity of the 'Just Keep Jaylen Brown' position but I wonder if some of you could provide some more context as to what that really means.

If we JKJB are we still looking to build around Tatum?
What if the best course of action is to trade 1 of them?
Would you rather not answer until other aspects of the roster construction are addressed first.

The Poll list all scenarios I could imagine. To what extent do we JKJB?

[Vermont Green]

I am a little confused by all the options but we are building around both, both are all stars, but not equally.  Tatum is a better player and more of a star.

That doesn't mean that Brown is completely untradeable.  There are not many but there are some I would trade Brown for.  I don't expect Brown to be traded.  Tatum is probably about as close as you can get to untradeable.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I am a little confused by all the options but we are building around both, both are all stars, but not equally.  Tatum is a better player and more of a star.

That doesn't mean that Brown is completely untradeable.  There are not many but there are some I would trade Brown for.  I don't expect Brown to be traded.  Tatum is probably about as close as you can get to untradeable.

I'm not sure that Tatum is a better player, though I do think he's more of a star. I think Brown is more of a complete player. Tatum is the better offensive talent. They were both the third pick in the draft, so neither can be considered a sleeper. They both get credit.

[Smartacus]

I am a little confused by all the options but we are building around both, both are all stars, but not equally.  Tatum is a better player and more of a star.

That doesn't mean that Brown is completely untradeable.  There are not many but there are some I would trade Brown for.  I don't expect Brown to be traded.  Tatum is probably about as close as you can get to untradeable.

Fair point I'm removing the word 'equally' from the poll option.

The bolded part of your post shows nuance so you may not be the intended audience for the poll.

Plenty of people around here have specifically stated 'Just Keep Jaylen Brown'. I believe from their perspective even though there might be player swaps that would make sense in a vacuum, the best course of action is to not make that trade and keep Jaylen Brown. They are making a specific, definitive claim that while JB may not be untradeable it would be best to not make that trade at this time or any point in the foreseeable future.

[moiso]

If we are making a big trade and need to give up Tatum or Brown, I'd rather JKJB.  I don't think Tatum is our best player or more of a star than Brown.  Brown can get anywhere on the court now and has become an excellent shooter.  As far as offense, I much prefer Brown's going by guys to get to the open spot or catching and shooting to Tatum's primary option of getting a guy leaning the wrong way and taking stepbacks all the time.  It seems like Brown gets open a lot easier, rather than just manufacturing a couple inches of space to launch a shot.

[Atzar]

I'm not necessarily in the JKJB camp, exactly.  I just think that the overlap between "guys who I'd trade Jaylen for" and "guys who could be acquired for Jaylen" is probably zero.  Teams keep the kind of young players that we'd be looking for in exchange for Jaylen.  Would I trade Jaylen for Luka Doncic?  Sure.  Would Dallas do that?  Of course not.  And so on. 

[Celtics2021]

I like them both pretty much equally, and think we should keep them.  In a world where we aren’t, I would trade Tatum because I think he can command more value on the trade market, and I think Brown’s 2-way game, plus his slightly less on-ball oriented offense, make him easier to fit in with a variety of different team structures that might be the result of a Tatum trade.

But we should keep both.

[Csfan1984]

The way I see it is like the Warriors. Just because you have Curry, a great guard you don't trade Thompson, another great guard just because you have two. You build around both, team and system.

[#1P4P]

Brown just turned 25; he’s 33-28 in the playoffs, one of the few top non-GSW/Lebron players to have an above .500 record. Historically, NBA players leading a franchise start winning postseason series in their mid 20s, with exceptions to certain top 20 ATG’s (who were in great situations.

We have two two-way wings that are top 20 NBA players that are still improving and haven’t reached their prime. The assignment is literally don’t mess this up by trading one of them or decimating the roster with bad moves. This is like wanting to trade our version of Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady before they reach their primes.

[dannyboy35]

  I selected other because I do think he’s the best player on the team but I’m unsure if I’m more likely to protect him if I had to . I’m so unsure about the whole thing I had to go other.

[dannyboy35]

If we are making a big trade and need to give up Tatum or Brown, I'd rather JKJB.  I don't think Tatum is our best player or more of a star than Brown.  Brown can get anywhere on the court now and has become an excellent shooter.  As far as offense, I much prefer Brown's going by guys to get to the open spot or catching and shooting to Tatum's primary option of getting a guy leaning the wrong way and taking stepbacks all the time.  It seems like Brown gets open a lot easier, rather than just manufacturing a couple inches of space to launch a shot.

   This is exactly how I feel. If Tatum improves his balk handling then he will enter another stratosphere. But it’s my opinion that this is the exact situation.

[A Future of Stevens]

The only player I would trade Brown for is someone who could immediately put us into contention. Full stop. The problem is, I don’t think any players of that quality have been available recently. I didn’t think Harden plus Tatum would be enough.

Both players are young and improving year over year. I don’t want to mess that up unless a Giannis/Luka level player becomes available. The Dames/Simmons of the world wouldn’t be enough to give us a true shot at winning the title. The rest of our team just is not strong enough.

Might as well keep the young, enigmatic 25 year old 6’6 physically dominating wing who keeps getting better and better. Plus the pure optics of who JB is as a person.

[keevsnick]

So i consider myself a member of JKJB nation, and I gotta say most of the thought process comes down to the following:

1) Jaylen brown is at this point underrated by Celtics fans. He's one of the best scorers in the NBA, literally one of the most efficient high volume guys so far this year. He rebounds well for his position. He defends well to very well especially as a switch guy. He isn't a good passer sure, maybe even below average for his position, but as a second option on a good team he's pretty close to exactly what you want. He's a similar age to your cornerstone guy in Tatum, and on a sub max contract the next three years. Teams spend years chasing that sort of second banana (Dallas for example would KILL for Jaylen Brown). I think honestly having a guy who plays the same position and is even better/ younger probably has caused some Celtics fans to under appreciate how good Jaylen is.

2) Any proposed trade has to make sense given the above facts. It makes no sense to trade Jaylen for a lateral move that's older or on a shorter contract. It also makes no sense to trade him for a "package" because we are trying to win and getting back a player + 2 firsts is not the kind of move a winning team makes. There are plenty of others things to try first (such as trading smart and getting a competent pass first PG) before you do a "shake it up" style move, get back to me in two years and maybe things will have changed. 

3) If you are trying to put together a Brown trade please take into account age/contract. Lillard for example is better than Brown, Lillard is also 31-33 and making 39.3, 42.5, 46 million the next three years. Given that this team clearly has tax constraints that salary at that age is kind of a big deal. This kind of trade is also a no go.

4) I have seen no evidence that him and Tatum can't be really good together. The teams net rating with those guys on court the last three years has always been good to great. The problems have typically been when one or both is off court and that suggests a team construction issue more than a top end talent issue.

So I guess would i trade Jaylen? Ya, but it has to be for a clear upgrade, and those guys are very rare and likely just not available. So given that id use the next two years trying to make the mix around him and Tatum work. In two years when brown is entering his final year we can revisit all this.

Latsly, I just like Jaylen as a person and a ball player. I'm not trading him because we started the year 4-6. That's an overreaction. I literally put zero weight on how we've performed so far this year on the question of trading Brown. I need a larger sample size.

[Vermont Green]

I am a little confused by all the options but we are building around both, both are all stars, but not equally.  Tatum is a better player and more of a star.

That doesn't mean that Brown is completely untradeable.  There are not many but there are some I would trade Brown for.  I don't expect Brown to be traded.  Tatum is probably about as close as you can get to untradeable.

Fair point I'm removing the word 'equally' from the poll option.

The bolded part of your post shows nuance so you may not be the intended audience for the poll.

Plenty of people around here have specifically stated 'Just Keep Jaylen Brown'. I believe from their perspective even though there might be player swaps that would make sense in a vacuum, the best course of action is to not make that trade and keep Jaylen Brown. They are making a specific, definitive claim that while JB may not be untradeable it would be best to not make that trade at this time or any point in the foreseeable future.

Again, I don't think Brown is going anywhere and I agree to a point with the idea that it would have to be a really good trade to even consider it.  We know Brown, we know he "works" for us.  Any trade is risky, even if you are getting a slightly better talent back.

I would only envision and would only agree with a trade of Brown that brought back an all star level big.  Pairing Tatum with a comparably talented (comparable in talent to Brown) big is more complimentary than pairing Tatum with another talented wing.  That is just not likely to happen.  Zion or Towns are examples of players that could fit this but these teams aren't likely to trade either for a wing, even one as good as Brown.

There was also talk of trying to trade Brown for Beal.  Beal is really good but I still don't want to see that trade.  And no way I trade Brown for Simmons.

[Roy H.]

Keep JT and JB. 

Everybody else can — or should — be moved.  Starting with Marcus Moron.