Author Topic: Effort is a symptom, not a cause  (Read 1484 times)

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Effort is a symptom, not a cause
« on: October 29, 2021, 10:55:45 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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I'm sure I will ruffle some feathers but I almost never buy into the excuse (or assessment if you will) that teams are playing hard enough.  That's almost never true and it's easy to understand why fans and players alike go to the effort card early and often.  When you blame effort, it means you're control and are doing other things right except...  If only we try harder we'll be fine.  But I don't see any reason to believe that the Celts have the personnel or the mentality to try less hard than other teams. 

What we're seeing is a combination of several things.  The season just started so it's going to take all teams some time to settle into their identity.  Talent not as high and some think.  Jaylen can be great but also trash, at least so far.  Smart looking like a disaster at the the point.  Bench overall is meh.  The switching defense obviously taking some time to perfect.

What people call effort really isn't.  When you're not getting the desired outcome (based on the points above), you're bound to become indecisive.  You'll question (in the moment) your decision making.  You may go off script.  And yes, at some points you can mentally give up and play less hard.  But the point is that you can't just keep saying play harder.  If the outcome isn't there, you're not going to keep beating your head against the wall.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 12:05:51 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: Effort is a symptom, not a cause
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2021, 12:04:50 PM »

Offline Atzar

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I agree with a lot of this.  It's a lot easier to blame effort than to suggest that maybe our guy just isn't good enough.  One is fixable, the other isn't... at least in the short-term.  And many fanbases are guilty of that thinking. 

I do think it's fair to call out certain behaviors as products of poor effort, though.  For instance, we're hemorrhaging points in the paint, both in transition and in the half-court.  One of the problems there is that we don't do a consistent job of running back on misses, especially when we string some bricks together and visibly get down on ourselves.  And if we're going to switch nearly everything like we have so far, our forwards need to do a much better job of defending and rebounding in the paint when Al or Rob get pulled out to the perimeter.  Tatum is not a stick figure anymore.  There's no reason he should be a bystander when guys like Harrell run unimpeded to the front of the rim for an easy rebound and putback.  And ever since he became one of the offensive focal points last season, Brown has been guilty of the many of the same things.

Maybe I'm wrong and that's an aptitude problem rather than an effort problem.  But when I watched a rookie Aaron Nesmith accept that challenge last year (even if he wasn't necessarily successful) while our stars did not, it's hard for me to believe that it's the former. 

Re: Effort is a symptom, not a cause
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2021, 12:07:36 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Mental toughness definitely comes and goes with this team. Some days they want a fight while other times they want to coast (and that is paraphrasing players). It's disappointing that these guys can think and act like this in a pro sport but it's probably a generation thing more than anything. Athletes are no longer taught to be angry, nasty, fired up assassins that enjoy pushing past adversity and burying opponents. Instead everyone is coddled, they must be nice and all of them from 15th man to superstar feels entitled.

Which leads to execution as an issue more than "effort". When guys make mistakes or don't feed off each other things go really bad. You see it almost right away after they have 2 bad plays in a row as a team or a guy is on a bad night. They go into distress and don't keep to the script or believe in one another. It's not a panic, more like it's a attitude they get into. You see it in the team's core players.

How you fix it is getting the right people in here that believe in team first. Guys that are extension of the coach. Teammates that want nothing but the win. People who stay positive when things are bad and encourage guys. Proper team Captains... But this team has none and it shows out there.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 12:14:13 PM by Csfan1984 »

Re: Effort is a symptom, not a cause
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2021, 12:29:02 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We've seen this problem with two coaches, albeit one is new and it is early in his tenure.   Right now it is looking for like a personnel issue than a coaching one.   Could  Tristan poisoned their minds with his regular season does not count comment?

Re: Effort is a symptom, not a cause
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2021, 12:52:27 PM »

Online Who

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Stars set the tone for the rest of the team. They follow the example set by the stars. It does not matter whether they want to be seen as leaders or not, they are.

The stars (Tatum, Jaylen) are not leading in terms of actions or intensity.

Re: Effort is a symptom, not a cause
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2021, 12:54:37 PM »

Online Who

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What is perplexing to me is the team looks like teams did after they came out of the bubble a year ago. They had the short off-season and teams who went far in the bubble had trouble gearing up for the new season while teams that went out early got plenty of rest and started in a higher gear.

But why is that the case this year? Why are they not ready to play? To compete? Why do they look like they are just going through the motions?

Re: Effort is a symptom, not a cause
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2021, 01:54:28 PM »

Offline liam

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What is perplexing to me is the team looks like teams did after they came out of the bubble a year ago. They had the short off-season and teams who went far in the bubble had trouble gearing up for the new season while teams that went out early got plenty of rest and started in a higher gear.

But why is that the case this year? Why are they not ready to play? To compete? Why do they look like they are just going through the motions?

Tatum did have a short offseason and Jaylen is coming of an injury that lasted all offseason.

Re: Effort is a symptom, not a cause
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2021, 04:08:27 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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People are going to ridiculous lengths to defend these bums.

Remember the IT team that went to the ECF? They played hard every night and it showed. They might not have been contenders, but Smart, Crowder, Bradley, Horford, IT etc had Will to Win.

Fast forward a year and it is looking like we might have a dynasty. Then Kyrie and Hayward get hurt. But Rozier, Tatum, and Brown step up big time and come within a few points of making the Finals. Those young players had something to prove.

I don't see that fire now. I see lethargy. I see bad habits. Smart pounding the ball and jacking up lazy 3's like Rasheed Wallace. Tatum whining to the refs, jogging back on defense after minimal contact. I see our stars setting a horrible example for the rest of the team. It doesn't matter who our opponent is. This isn't about talent. It is about leadership, effort, and entitlement.