Calling Guys Out In The Media

[jambr380]

I'm not trying to take this conversation off-topic, but do we actually know Jaylen's vaccination status? It is odd that he actually got sick and wasn't just asymptomatic. All I saw was this:

"I have my own thoughts about it. I respect my teammate's decisions and things like that. I know everybody has their own opinion on it. I think it's a personal choice."

You'd think if he was definitely vaccinated, he would have said as much. If not, perhaps Ime is a little annoyed at Jaylen specifically for not taking the necessary (and expected) precautions and feels he let down the team by having to quarantine and then come back slowly.

I realize the post probably is extremely bizarre looking to some folks. If somebody has confirmation of Jaylen actually getting the vaccine, please do post it, so I'm not out here posting conspiracy theory stuff. It's just that we see (and are reveling in) all of the criticism a guy like Kyrie is getting for his stand, but this thing with Jaylen mostly went unchecked.

[Somebody]

I’m wondering whether some of the players are thinking: you know who else should be held accountable? The guy who has us switching everything, and who’s playing lineups where the tallest guy is 6’4”. Maybe I should talk about that next time I’m at a mic.

Or the guy who was talking about having a player who averaged 0.8PPP on post ups the year he spent half of his time at PF to 'exploit' swings - he is our Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

Oh man, I really hope this isn’t the case, but there are indeed some similarities. That 5-0 thrashing from Liverpool was very hard to watch.

The thing that sucks is that we didn't even have a Mourinho who won trophies for us lol.

[Celtics2021]

I'm not trying to take this conversation off-topic, but do we actually know Jaylen's vaccination status? It is odd that he actually got sick and wasn't just asymptomatic. All I saw was this:

"I have my own thoughts about it. I respect my teammate's decisions and things like that. I know everybody has their own opinion on it. I think it's a personal choice."

You'd think if he was definitely vaccinated, he would have said as much. If not, perhaps Ime is a little annoyed at Jaylen specifically for not taking the necessary (and expected) precautions and feels he let down the team by having to quarantine and then come back slowly.

I realize the post probably is extremely bizarre looking to some folks. If somebody has confirmation of Jaylen actually getting the vaccine, please do post it, so I'm not out here posting conspiracy theory stuff. It's just that we see (and are reveling in) all of the criticism a guy like Kyrie is getting for his stand, but this thing with Jaylen mostly went unchecked.

He was out the minimum amount of time, which means that his symptoms didn’t last more than a day or two.  My guess is that he got the J&J vaccine, which a lot of athletes seemed to receive because they didn’t want the side effects from the mRNA vaccines, which could lay you low for a day or two midseason.  That vaccine has proved far less effective vs. Delta, although having mild symptoms that last for a couple days is in the “effective” threshold for any of the three vaccines.

If you watched the press conference in which he said the quote you cite (as I did on media day) his tone and body language indicate that he did receive it, but didn’t want to get baited into any controversy.

[Wretch]

I'm not trying to take this conversation off-topic, but do we actually know Jaylen's vaccination status? It is odd that he actually got sick and wasn't just asymptomatic. All I saw was this:

"I have my own thoughts about it. I respect my teammate's decisions and things like that. I know everybody has their own opinion on it. I think it's a personal choice."

You'd think if he was definitely vaccinated, he would have said as much. If not, perhaps Ime is a little annoyed at Jaylen specifically for not taking the necessary (and expected) precautions and feels he let down the team by having to quarantine and then come back slowly.

I realize the post probably is extremely bizarre looking to some folks. If somebody has confirmation of Jaylen actually getting the vaccine, please do post it, so I'm not out here posting conspiracy theory stuff. It's just that we see (and are reveling in) all of the criticism a guy like Kyrie is getting for his stand, but this thing with Jaylen mostly went unchecked.

Jaylen played in NY. I don't think he'd would have been allowed if he wasn't vaccinated.

[Celtics2021]

I'm not trying to take this conversation off-topic, but do we actually know Jaylen's vaccination status? It is odd that he actually got sick and wasn't just asymptomatic. All I saw was this:

"I have my own thoughts about it. I respect my teammate's decisions and things like that. I know everybody has their own opinion on it. I think it's a personal choice."

You'd think if he was definitely vaccinated, he would have said as much. If not, perhaps Ime is a little annoyed at Jaylen specifically for not taking the necessary (and expected) precautions and feels he let down the team by having to quarantine and then come back slowly.

I realize the post probably is extremely bizarre looking to some folks. If somebody has confirmation of Jaylen actually getting the vaccine, please do post it, so I'm not out here posting conspiracy theory stuff. It's just that we see (and are reveling in) all of the criticism a guy like Kyrie is getting for his stand, but this thing with Jaylen mostly went unchecked.

Jaylen played in NY. I don't think he'd would have been allowed if he wasn't vaccinated.

He would have.  The rule only applies to those employed in NY, which he is not.

[Celtics4ever]

I thought it came to this really too quickly.  Throwing guys under the bus, what 5-6 games in?   Is this a Pop Coaching school thing.   I like the honesty but wonder how the players will respond.

I'm not trying to take this conversation off-topic, but do we actually know Jaylen's vaccination status? It is odd that he actually got sick and wasn't just asymptomatic. All I saw was this:

"I have my own thoughts about it. I respect my teammate's decisions and things like that. I know everybody has their own opinion on it. I think it's a personal choice."

You'd think if he was definitely vaccinated, he would have said as much. If not, perhaps Ime is a little annoyed at Jaylen specifically for not taking the necessary (and expected) precautions and feels he let down the team by having to quarantine and then come back slowly.

Vaccination protection wanes according to some studies after a few months.   It is not an end all hence the need for boosters.  It is still helpful from what I read but these things are on the cutting edge of science  and well new.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/06/health/pfizer-vaccine-waning-immunity/index.html

Notice none of the guys who had it last year caught it despite being around Jaylen but Al did who was not here did.  Dennis Schroder was out on Covid Protocols last year but allegedly did not have it.  Richardson had it last year.   Science ignore natural immunity but it is very real.   

I do think he could be battling fatigue from it still.

[Sophomore]

I think one thing to watch out for is Ime's early tendency to candidly discuss his players in the media.  This was something about Doc Rivers that I always hated, and was something that Brad didn't do a lot.  Case in point:

Udoka on the uneven play of Jaylen Brown thus far: "I'm trying to ramp him up during the game, pump him up to get going but the contrast of some of those previous games, especially Charlotte and the New York game and the way you see him come out tonight is kind of mind boggling."

Is that something that is going to motivate, or lead to resentment?

I think it's great to be honest. 

I was sick to death of Brad being too soft on guys and on the team in general, especially when it came to media comments.  He never seemed to have the balls to call the team (or players) out when it was needed, and felt like he was acting more like a friend then a coach - and for that reason it felt like the players liked him but didn't RESPECT him.   

At the end of the day I don't care if it's a scrub at the end of the bench or if it's your star player - when a player is going out there without energy / effort then they need to be called out and held accountable, and I absolutely LOVE that coach had the balls to do that. 

I think some of the guys on this team really need their egos put in check, and want Tatum and Brown in particular to know that they aren't untouchable - just because they are super talented, doesn't mean you can take games off and 'bring it' when they feel like it. 

This team needs the type of coach that will say "I don't care how talented you are or how much money you earn - if you don't give it everything you have I'm pulling you out and giving minutes to somebody who will".

I don’t think the question is so much about accountability as how you go about it. It’s one thing to bench a player who isn’t performing; it’s another to run him down in the media. Not too many workplaces have public criticism sessions for underperforming employees - even in front of colleagues, let alone in front of their families, friends, and the public. I’ve never worked anyplace with that dynamic.

I’m skeptical, as others have been, about a new coach jumping on the players publicly after five games. For this to work he’s got to have a lot of IQ about keeping the relationship while being critical. I’m not sure how he does that - a lot of people could not pull it off - but its often said he’s a genius with people. So we are going to see.

[Surferdad]

I think one thing to watch out for is Ime's early tendency to candidly discuss his players in the media.  This was something about Doc Rivers that I always hated, and was something that Brad didn't do a lot.  Case in point:

Udoka on the uneven play of Jaylen Brown thus far: "I'm trying to ramp him up during the game, pump him up to get going but the contrast of some of those previous games, especially Charlotte and the New York game and the way you see him come out tonight is kind of mind boggling."

Is that something that is going to motivate, or lead to resentment?

I think it's great to be honest. 

I was sick to death of Brad being too soft on guys and on the team in general, especially when it came to media comments.  He never seemed to have the balls to call the team (or players) out when it was needed, and felt like he was acting more like a friend then a coach - and for that reason it felt like the players liked him but didn't RESPECT him.   

At the end of the day I don't care if it's a scrub at the end of the bench or if it's your star player - when a player is going out there without energy / effort then they need to be called out and held accountable, and I absolutely LOVE that coach had the balls to do that. 

I think some of the guys on this team really need their egos put in check, and want Tatum and Brown in particular to know that they aren't untouchable - just because they are super talented, doesn't mean you can take games off and 'bring it' when they feel like it. 

This team needs the type of coach that will say "I don't care how talented you are or how much money you earn - if you don't give it everything you have I'm pulling you out and giving minutes to somebody who will".

I don’t think the question is so much about accountability as how you go about it. It’s one thing to bench a player who isn’t performing; it’s another to run him down in the media. Not too many workplaces have public criticism sessions for underperforming employees - even in front of colleagues, let alone in front of their families, friends, and the public. I’ve never worked anyplace with that dynamic.

I’m skeptical, as others have been, about a new coach jumping on the players publicly after five games. For this to work he’s got to have a lot of IQ about keeping the relationship while being critical. I’m not sure how he does that - a lot of people could not pull it off - but its often said he’s a genius with people. So we are going to see.

We shall see.  I like Udoka and I'm expecting this kind of balanced yet firm approach to coaching.  I also want more passion from him.  It's something I never saw in Coach Brad.

[jambr380]

I'm not trying to take this conversation off-topic, but do we actually know Jaylen's vaccination status? It is odd that he actually got sick and wasn't just asymptomatic. All I saw was this:

"I have my own thoughts about it. I respect my teammate's decisions and things like that. I know everybody has their own opinion on it. I think it's a personal choice."

You'd think if he was definitely vaccinated, he would have said as much. If not, perhaps Ime is a little annoyed at Jaylen specifically for not taking the necessary (and expected) precautions and feels he let down the team by having to quarantine and then come back slowly.

I realize the post probably is extremely bizarre looking to some folks. If somebody has confirmation of Jaylen actually getting the vaccine, please do post it, so I'm not out here posting conspiracy theory stuff. It's just that we see (and are reveling in) all of the criticism a guy like Kyrie is getting for his stand, but this thing with Jaylen mostly went unchecked.

He was out the minimum amount of time, which means that his symptoms didn’t last more than a day or two.  My guess is that he got the J&J vaccine, which a lot of athletes seemed to receive because they didn’t want the side effects from the mRNA vaccines, which could lay you low for a day or two midseason.  That vaccine has proved far less effective vs. Delta, although having mild symptoms that last for a couple days is in the “effective” threshold for any of the three vaccines.

If you watched the press conference in which he said the quote you cite (as I did on media day) his tone and body language indicate that he did receive it, but didn’t want to get baited into any controversy.

Thanks and TP for the response. I was really not trying to cause trouble - Jaylen is one of my favorite players - just seemed like something that should have been more concrete. I mean, Jaylen is known for speaking out on important issues - seems like trying to get as many people vaccinated should be up there, even just as a side comment. I know he talked about having trouble with his breathing and he has been super-inconsistent since his return. Obviously I don't worry about him moving forward, just was wondering if this may have led to some of the early apparent 'tension' with Ime.

[Who]

Bad form. Should be kept to the locker room.

The occassional public put-down is okay so long as it is infrequent but regular use of this tactic usually leads to bad results. Not liking how quickly Udoka has gone to this or how frequently he has used this tactic over his first 2-3 weeks. Bad signal of man mangement skills.

It is easy to be a good man-manager as an assistant. Nobody gets mad at you about playing time. You get to play the good guy / the friend / the confidante. Lots of assistants play this up to get in good with players to boost their head coach opportunities too (which is pretty sick, often stabbing their boss in the back while they do it).

Now Udoka's man management skills are being tested in a more comprehensive way (as head coach) and the initial results (public shamings, lack of effort displays) are troubling.

[JohnBoy65]

What Ime said is exactly what most of us are thinking. I've been thoroughly disappointed in Jaylen's effort this year, other than the NY game. It's like he goes through the motions, then decides in the last 5 minutes it's time to get going.

I guess my question is: Why ignore the elephant in the room? If we're all thinking it why can't it be addressed? If Ime said something like this: "Jaylen has the opportunity to be one of the best players in the conference, we saw it against the knicks. We need him to play like that consistently." Would we feel better? This is essentially the same quote with a more positive twist.  I also wonder if we make a bigger deal about post game pressers than the players do.

[Jiri Welsch]

For those a bit skeptical about Ime saying these things in public to the media, I'm interested what you think about Brad's interview today on Toucher and Rich:

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1454073153618055177?s=20

Brad Stevens to @Toucherandrich on Ime Udoka's comments about Boston's effort level: "It's the very beginning of the season. We would easily be 1-4 or 4-1. We don't have so much talent that we can't play. We have to be way more dialed in possession to possession than we've been."

Stevens: "I was there. Ime did a good job. He called it out as soon as he saw it. I'm not going to overreact five games into the season. But there is a problem if we don't start playing possession to possession."

Stevens said he never talked with Udoka about calling the team out publicly. Stevens said "You are who you are as a coach. That's who Ime is."

Stevens also said that Udoka is finding his way. Stevens also talked about how big of an adjustment it is to learn to deal with media.

Stevens on Udoka: "I don't think it's ever wrong to have an authentic approach. And Ime is authentic."

Stevens on the Celtics early struggles: "It's not just about effort. But giving effort is the minimum requirement."

Stevens said the Celtics have a lot of things to clean up, both with effort and with techniques. He listed a long string of things Boston has to be better at.

Brad Stevens on Marcus Smart: "I've told him this: I think when guys are struggling, you need to get back to the best version of yourself. For him, it's diving on the floor...not being afraid to step in during a big moment."

Stevens called out some big plays Smart's made so far.

Stevens: "I tell (Marcus Smart) to focus on the things that make him special. Don't worry about the noise. Don't worry about shooting percentages. Just do what you do best out there."

[showtime]

I'm not trying to take this conversation off-topic, but do we actually know Jaylen's vaccination status? It is odd that he actually got sick and wasn't just asymptomatic. All I saw was this:

"I have my own thoughts about it. I respect my teammate's decisions and things like that. I know everybody has their own opinion on it. I think it's a personal choice."

You'd think if he was definitely vaccinated, he would have said as much. If not, perhaps Ime is a little annoyed at Jaylen specifically for not taking the necessary (and expected) precautions and feels he let down the team by having to quarantine and then come back slowly.

I realize the post probably is extremely bizarre looking to some folks. If somebody has confirmation of Jaylen actually getting the vaccine, please do post it, so I'm not out here posting conspiracy theory stuff. It's just that we see (and are reveling in) all of the criticism a guy like Kyrie is getting for his stand, but this thing with Jaylen mostly went unchecked.

This is a great question! I suspect Jaylen has not been Vaccinated. Or for that matter Horford either! Tatum and Smart both came out and said they had received  the vaccine,  I've not heard Brown or AL say either yay or nay!

[Celtics2021]

I'm not trying to take this conversation off-topic, but do we actually know Jaylen's vaccination status? It is odd that he actually got sick and wasn't just asymptomatic. All I saw was this:

"I have my own thoughts about it. I respect my teammate's decisions and things like that. I know everybody has their own opinion on it. I think it's a personal choice."

You'd think if he was definitely vaccinated, he would have said as much. If not, perhaps Ime is a little annoyed at Jaylen specifically for not taking the necessary (and expected) precautions and feels he let down the team by having to quarantine and then come back slowly.

I realize the post probably is extremely bizarre looking to some folks. If somebody has confirmation of Jaylen actually getting the vaccine, please do post it, so I'm not out here posting conspiracy theory stuff. It's just that we see (and are reveling in) all of the criticism a guy like Kyrie is getting for his stand, but this thing with Jaylen mostly went unchecked.

This is a great question! I suspect Jaylen has not been Vaccinated. Or for that matter Horford either! Tatum and Smart both came out and said they had received  the vaccine,  I've not heard Brown or AL say either yay or nay!

Somewhere between 90-95% of NBA players have been vaccinated.  Maybe 20% of them have revealed their status.  Your logic simply doesn’t follow.

[showtime]

I'm not trying to take this conversation off-topic, but do we actually know Jaylen's vaccination status? It is odd that he actually got sick and wasn't just asymptomatic. All I saw was this:

"I have my own thoughts about it. I respect my teammate's decisions and things like that. I know everybody has their own opinion on it. I think it's a personal choice."

You'd think if he was definitely vaccinated, he would have said as much. If not, perhaps Ime is a little annoyed at Jaylen specifically for not taking the necessary (and expected) precautions and feels he let down the team by having to quarantine and then come back slowly.

I realize the post probably is extremely bizarre looking to some folks. If somebody has confirmation of Jaylen actually getting the vaccine, please do post it, so I'm not out here posting conspiracy theory stuff. It's just that we see (and are reveling in) all of the criticism a guy like Kyrie is getting for his stand, but this thing with Jaylen mostly went unchecked.

This is a great question! I suspect Jaylen has not been Vaccinated. Or for that matter Horford either! Tatum and Smart both came out and said they had received  the vaccine,  I've not heard Brown or AL say either yay or nay!

Somewhere between 90-95% of NBA players have been vaccinated.  Maybe 20% of them have revealed their status.  Your logic simply doesn’t follow.

Have they been asked? Jaylen was asked and skated around the question!