Trader Bradly

[seancally]

approaching the midpoint of the season and wondering if the sarcastic “the sky is falling” crowd is still content with the direction of this franchise.

i stand by my original post in this thread and think the window of opportunity is closing. it’s time for radical changes or wyc and brad will ride this dysfunctional team down to terminal value. once that happens, we’ll be in for a long decade of rebuilding.

if brad cannot get a king’s ransom for tatum, call him into the office and commit to rebuilding around him. everyone else must be expendable and ime must be gone at the end of the season.

I basically agree, but think Tatum is maybe the only one worth keeping. Love Brown but he’ll actually return you some nice pieces, and he won’t be nearly the playmaker Tatum is already / will be. Tatum can be the Guy. I think Timelord is worth keeping.

Everyone else? Honestly wouldn’t shed a tear.

[RodyTur10]

approaching the midpoint of the season and wondering if the sarcastic “the sky is falling” crowd is still content with the direction of this franchise.

i stand by my original post in this thread and think the window of opportunity is closing. it’s time for radical changes or wyc and brad will ride this dysfunctional team down to terminal value. once that happens, we’ll be in for a long decade of rebuilding.

if brad cannot get a king’s ransom for tatum, call him into the office and commit to rebuilding around him. everyone else must be expendable and ime must be gone at the end of the season.

I basically agree, but think Tatum is maybe the only one worth keeping. Love Brown but he’ll actually return you some nice pieces, and he won’t be nearly the playmaker Tatum is already / will be. Tatum can be the Guy. I think Timelord is worth keeping.

Everyone else? Honestly wouldn’t shed a tear.

I agree. Keep Tatum and Timelord.

The rest, I'm willing to trade for the right offers (obviously you won't trade Brown for small pieces).
We need a fundamental change.

Because I doubt there'll be much interest in Pritchard, Langford, Nesmith or Fernando, they could stay and show whether they have a future on this team or at least build up some value by actually playing.

This doesn't mean I dislike all the players, but in my opinion we're better off trading Schröder, Smart, Richardson, G-Will, Hernangomez, Horford, Kanter, Parker and even Brown for good value.

[Kernewek]

approaching the midpoint of the season and wondering if the sarcastic “the sky is falling” crowd is still content with the direction of this franchise.

i stand by my original post in this thread and think the window of opportunity is closing. it’s time for radical changes or wyc and brad will ride this dysfunctional team down to terminal value. once that happens, we’ll be in for a long decade of rebuilding.

if brad cannot get a king’s ransom for tatum, call him into the office and commit to rebuilding around him. everyone else must be expendable and ime must be gone at the end of the season.

Pretty content, yeah. We probably weren't winning a championship at the beginning of the season. We're probably not now.

On the other hand I have zero interest in playing pretend GM, so that might have something to do with it.

[Who]

continuing to add role players and massage the roster while we wait for the j’s to mature isn’t working.

Couldn't agree more. We gotta add stars. Not change role players like it is a game of musical chairs.

[jbpats]

This has become unwatchable, I've been a fan for almost 40 years and not once can I recall seeing so much disconnect and constant predictable collapse in the 3rd and 4th quarters.
I'd love to build around the Jay's but getting a player, that would make a difference, with the remaining assets we have to trade is just not realistic. More concerning is that I don't feel Tatum and Brown have a strong connection. Their on court relationship is non existent and I can't imagine their off court one is much better. They never seem happy for each other, they rarely ever speak to one another during games.. it just feels like a constant competition.

The above being said, Tatum is probably our best player, but to me the one who has to go. I think Jaylen can grow into a leader, and while he may never become as good naturally as Tatum, I feel like we have an honest shot to retain him throughout his career. Tatum on the other hand, and in my opinion, will be a Laker as soon as he has the chance or be one of those guys that holds out and demands a trade if things continue down this downward spiral.

Stick with Jaylen and lets see what we can get for Tatum.   

[Mahk E Mahk]

thought it was time to revive this thread to make one thing clear: i like my crow medium-well with a bit of horseradish on the side.

been away from this board for awhile due to, well, life. however, i’ve been able to watch the games, and wow, what a turnaround. credit to brad, ime, and the entire team. a few thoughts, and apologies in advance if they’re redundant; i’m just now catching up on the board.

i didn’t see tatum making the jump but he has on many levels. he’s now top five in the league with even more potential. his jump in leadership and passing is just as impressive as his scoring. the game has slowed down for him and he’s a man amongst boys on most nights.

brown is still finding his role on this team but has significantly progressed to the point that i think he and tatum work well together (wow, never thought i’d say that!). his slashing to the basket style is the perfect compliment to tatum’s game. jb has another level (or two) of potential, and this team will be downright scary when he gets there.

ime has surprised me more than anyone. he looked completely lost for more than half the season and i didn’t see him turning it around. he now has this team completely bought-in and he’s demonstrating the X’s & O’s prowess we hoped he acquired under pop. one example: as tatum is now seeing consistent double teams, the high post centric offensive set has been huge for keeping the offense from stagnating when tatum is being stymied by double teams. even brad couldn’t get the team to consistently buy into this scheme. probably more importantly, his ability to get this team to play to their potential on defense has been a huge factor in the recent turnaround. ime should be the frontrunner for coty. definitely didn’t think we’d be here two months ago!

timelord and al on the floor together has worked beautifully, which i thought was a mistake. rob’s growth as a rim protector and great passer, without demanding the ball, makes him the perfect big for this team. i can’t say enough about rob; his defense has transformed this team and its identity. a team’s 1-4 can approach defense very differently when you know you have a rim protecting big to cover you. his growth has been just as important as tatum’s in turning this team into a legit contender.

marcus growing into his role as a facilitating pg and floor general might be the second most important contributing development to this team’s recent rise. watching this team make the second and third pass to get a teammate an open look has been a thing of beauty. watching marcus pass up a three to make the third pass has been monumental. i give ime a lot of credit here.

grant’s growth on offense has also been a huge contributor to this team’s recent rise. his ability to consistently hit the corner three has spread opposing defenses, opening the floor for jb’s slashing drives and preventing teams from constantly doubling tatum. grant has also been leveraging his size/strength to take advantage of smaller forwards down low, when matchups dictate. grant might have the highest b’ball IQ on the team, and i love his desire to win.

PP knocking down shots when he gets time with the starters has been huge. this team used to get bogged down on offense (remember those brutal third quarters?) and needed a go-to knockdown shooter. PP is channeling the paxson bros and steve kerr in this capacity, and he’s also playing solid D, particularly when he picks up the opposing pg full court, which has garnered him more playing time from ime. 

this team is on the rise and C’s basketball is seriously fun again. to think we were flirting with missing the playoffs three months ago, to possibly the #1 seed in the east and legit championship contenders is crazy. looking forward to dining on crow and a side of green beans.

[Vermont Green]

People were overreacting, that is for sure but no one expected this type of turn around.  I suggest people not be too hard on themselves.

[ausbacker]

thought it was time to revive this thread to make one thing clear: i like my crow medium-well with a bit of horseradish on the side.

been away from this board for awhile due to, well, life. however, i’ve been able to watch the games, and wow, what a turnaround. credit to brad, ime, and the entire team. a few thoughts, and apologies in advance if they’re redundant; i’m just now catching up on the board.

i didn’t see tatum making the jump but he has on many levels. he’s now top five in the league with even more potential. his jump in leadership and passing is just as impressive as his scoring. the game has slowed down for him and he’s a man amongst boys on most nights.

brown is still finding his role on this team but has significantly progressed to the point that i think he and tatum work well together (wow, never thought i’d say that!). his slashing to the basket style is the perfect compliment to tatum’s game. jb has another level (or two) of potential, and this team will be downright scary when he gets there.

ime has surprised me more than anyone. he looked completely lost for more than half the season and i didn’t see him turning it around. he now has this team completely bought-in and he’s demonstrating the X’s & O’s prowess we hoped he acquired under pop. one example: as tatum is now seeing consistent double teams, the high post centric offensive set has been huge for keeping the offense from stagnating when tatum is being stymied by double teams. even brad couldn’t get the team to consistently buy into this scheme. probably more importantly, his ability to get this team to play to their potential on defense has been a huge factor in the recent turnaround. ime should be the frontrunner for coty. definitely didn’t think we’d be here two months ago!

timelord and al on the floor together has worked beautifully, which i thought was a mistake. rob’s growth as a rim protector and great passer, without demanding the ball, makes him the perfect big for this team. i can’t say enough about rob; his defense has transformed this team and its identity. a team’s 1-4 can approach defense very differently when you know you have a rim protecting big to cover you. his growth has been just as important as tatum’s in turning this team into a legit contender.

marcus growing into his role as a facilitating pg and floor general might be the second most important contributing development to this team’s recent rise. watching this team make the second and third pass to get a teammate an open look has been a thing of beauty. watching marcus pass up a three to make the third pass has been monumental. i give ime a lot of credit here.

grant’s growth on offense has also been a huge contributor to this team’s recent rise. his ability to consistently hit the corner three has spread opposing defenses, opening the floor for jb’s slashing drives and preventing teams from constantly doubling tatum. grant has also been leveraging his size/strength to take advantage of smaller forwards down low, when matchups dictate. grant might have the highest b’ball IQ on the team, and i love his desire to win.

PP knocking down shots when he gets time with the starters has been huge. this team used to get bogged down on offense (remember those brutal third quarters?) and needed a go-to knockdown shooter. PP is channeling the paxson bros and steve kerr in this capacity, and he’s also playing solid D, particularly when he picks up the opposing pg full court, which has garnered him more playing time from ime. 

this team is on the rise and C’s basketball is seriously fun again. to think we were flirting with missing the playoffs three months ago, to possibly the #1 seed in the east and legit championship contenders is crazy. looking forward to dining on crow and a side of green beans.

I admit to being a the sky is falling in poster mainly because nothing was changing and arguably, looked worse however, all the things this board discussed whether it was better ball movement to counter a stagnant, iso-centric O, poor three point attempts, better rotations on D, Ime getting a better feel for the flow of games and using his timeouts strategically etc., all appear to have materialized at once and I couldn't be happier to be proven wrong.

[ozgod]

thought it was time to revive this thread to make one thing clear: i like my crow medium-well with a bit of horseradish on the side.

been away from this board for awhile due to, well, life. however, i’ve been able to watch the games, and wow, what a turnaround. credit to brad, ime, and the entire team. a few thoughts, and apologies in advance if they’re redundant; i’m just now catching up on the board.

i didn’t see tatum making the jump but he has on many levels. he’s now top five in the league with even more potential. his jump in leadership and passing is just as impressive as his scoring. the game has slowed down for him and he’s a man amongst boys on most nights.

brown is still finding his role on this team but has significantly progressed to the point that i think he and tatum work well together (wow, never thought i’d say that!). his slashing to the basket style is the perfect compliment to tatum’s game. jb has another level (or two) of potential, and this team will be downright scary when he gets there.

ime has surprised me more than anyone. he looked completely lost for more than half the season and i didn’t see him turning it around. he now has this team completely bought-in and he’s demonstrating the X’s & O’s prowess we hoped he acquired under pop. one example: as tatum is now seeing consistent double teams, the high post centric offensive set has been huge for keeping the offense from stagnating when tatum is being stymied by double teams. even brad couldn’t get the team to consistently buy into this scheme. probably more importantly, his ability to get this team to play to their potential on defense has been a huge factor in the recent turnaround. ime should be the frontrunner for coty. definitely didn’t think we’d be here two months ago!

timelord and al on the floor together has worked beautifully, which i thought was a mistake. rob’s growth as a rim protector and great passer, without demanding the ball, makes him the perfect big for this team. i can’t say enough about rob; his defense has transformed this team and its identity. a team’s 1-4 can approach defense very differently when you know you have a rim protecting big to cover you. his growth has been just as important as tatum’s in turning this team into a legit contender.

marcus growing into his role as a facilitating pg and floor general might be the second most important contributing development to this team’s recent rise. watching this team make the second and third pass to get a teammate an open look has been a thing of beauty. watching marcus pass up a three to make the third pass has been monumental. i give ime a lot of credit here.

grant’s growth on offense has also been a huge contributor to this team’s recent rise. his ability to consistently hit the corner three has spread opposing defenses, opening the floor for jb’s slashing drives and preventing teams from constantly doubling tatum. grant has also been leveraging his size/strength to take advantage of smaller forwards down low, when matchups dictate. grant might have the highest b’ball IQ on the team, and i love his desire to win.

PP knocking down shots when he gets time with the starters has been huge. this team used to get bogged down on offense (remember those brutal third quarters?) and needed a go-to knockdown shooter. PP is channeling the paxson bros and steve kerr in this capacity, and he’s also playing solid D, particularly when he picks up the opposing pg full court, which has garnered him more playing time from ime. 

this team is on the rise and C’s basketball is seriously fun again. to think we were flirting with missing the playoffs three months ago, to possibly the #1 seed in the east and legit championship contenders is crazy. looking forward to dining on crow and a side of green beans.

Takes courage to show up and munch on some humble pie that's for sure 

That said, it's easy to look back at these threads in hindsight and feel stupid, but back then the team certainly deserved the criticism that was coming its way. It's a credit to them that they have been able to change things around during the season. Some teams take years to change habits. And they had some bad habits to change - the Jays taking turns to go iso, Smartacus's ill advised 3s, the lack of movement on offense, the poor communication on defense, the dropping of heads when leads were overhauled by opposing teams.

Now, they still play iso but it's to take advantage of matchups, they move the ball around to find those matchups, they are much more connected on defense, Smartacus has changed his shot profile completely, the Jays are playing off each other much better and more selflessly, and the team is not letting poor offense affect their defense.

It really is a reminder to all of us to be patient, that a season is a marathon and not a sprint, and that the championship isn't won in the first month or two, and that sometimes the coach and the GM have a plan that takes a number of steps to accomplish, and the players need to learn their roles in the new scheme. But fans is short for fanatics for a reason 

[Roy H.]

That said, it's easy to look back at these threads in hindsight and feel stupid, but back then the team certainly deserved the criticism that was coming its way. It's a credit to them that they have been able to change things around during the season. Some teams take years to change habits. And they had some bad habits to change - the Jays taking turns to go iso, Smartacus's ill advised 3s, the lack of movement on offense, the poor communication on defense, the dropping of heads when leads were overhauled by opposing teams.

Agreed.  The team played at a really mediocre level all of last year, and for about the first half this year.  Frustrated fans -- and I was definitely one of them -- had the right to be concerned that the team wasn't playing up to its talent.

It wasn't just a slump, although Tatum's poor shooting in particular contributed.  It wasn't simply injuries, although they were a part, as well.  It was becoming a culture.  Even Marcus Smart was dogging it.  The media was talking about how the Jays couldn't play together, guys were getting called out in the media by both the coach and teammates.

That was this season and last.  It sucked.  And then, about 30 games ago, it changed, and remarkably so.  Ime got his players to buy in, and whatever clicked, clicked in a big way.  But, I don't think that's an indication that there was nothing wrong in the first place, or that the team just needed time and/or health.  They needed a big change in philosophy, which thankfully we saw.

[JohnBoy65]

I agree I stopped watching religiously because I refused to let myself get upset any longer. Now it's can't miss television. However, I think 14 of our losses are by 5 points or less. If 6 of those games go our way we're not as hard on this team in December. However, it is certainly clear we are playing a different brand of basketball right now.

[trickybilly]

TP Vermont Green for the callback! Woot Woot!!

[Mahk E Mahk]

count me in the group that believes the C’s deserved much of the criticism and skepticism during the first half of the season. it was warranted based on their play.

the crow is warranted based on my lack of belief that they could turn it around with the j’s. they proved me wrong and i’ve never enjoyed a meal more.😁

[pokeKingCurtis]

count me in the group that believes the C’s deserved much of the criticism and skepticism during the first half of the season. it was warranted based on their play.

the crow is warranted based on my lack of belief that they could turn it around with the j’s. they proved me wrong and i’ve never enjoyed a meal more.😁

Faith in the Jays by Brad (and Ainge before that, and probably Wyc). That's a well-run franchise.

[Kernewek]

count me in the group that believes the C’s deserved much of the criticism and skepticism during the first half of the season. it was warranted based on their play.

the crow is warranted based on my lack of belief that they could turn it around with the j’s. they proved me wrong and i’ve never enjoyed a meal more.😁

Welcome back