NBA Season 2021-22

[Roy H.]

Tough to see Denver taking a game in this series.  Those monstrous third quarter runs of death have returned with a vengeance now that Curry and Thompson are back and (mostly) healthy, and Denver doesn't have the personnel either to stem the tide or to keep up with it.  And Draymond might be the single best anti-Jokic weapon in the entire NBA.

It doesn't really matter what Jokic does, GSW have the defensive personnel to completely nullify his teammates. And his teammates absolutely cannot defend Klay, Curry or Poole.

Nor can Jokic. He is dead in the water against shooters like that. Especially Steph with his handles and quickness. Jokic doesn't have the footspeed to contain them on Team D.

This is the playoffs. Not the regular season where Jokic can pad his advanced defensive stats playing against many mediocre talents. Now he has to face quick sharp-shooting guards. He can't matchup to those guys on switches. This is why his defensive stats are so deceiving and misleading in terms of what you can expect from him in the playoffs when facing superior offensive talent.

It was CP3 and Booker last year. Steph and Co. this year. Same problem, different year.

I agree.  It's one of those situations where stats don't match the "eye test".  There are ways to try to hide Jokic on defense, but he's going to make it very difficult for a team to play great defense around him because he's so limited.

[Who]

WOW, 41 for Brunson. What a game 

To somewhat the same extent, idk but something has seemed off about the Jazz just like people have been saying about the Nets. Lot of talent, theoretically some good pieces around the roster but I guess either the chemistry, cohesion and/or killer instinct are missing.

Agreed with the above posters, if the Jazz lose this series I think there'll be some trades this offseason probably of 1 or 2 of their stars (Gobert, Mitchell?). I mean, no Doncic and they are tied 1-1 and even the 1 Jazz win was barely a win, Dallas nearly won that one too.

The Jazz won big last year by having 9 quality players. They had no depth beyond those 9 guys but when those 9 guys where fit they fearsome. Their top talent (including Gobert, Mitchell) got too much credit and their supporting cast too little.

Since then, three things have happened (1) Niang left in free agency (2) Ingles had a season ending injury. Now you replace them with Rudy Gay who just isn't as good. (3) Clarkson who played brilliantly for the first 2/3rds of last season came back down to Earth in the final 3rd and has continued playing at his normal career levels this season. That hot-shooting three point threat of the first 2/3rds of last season has disappeared. Without that, Clarkson has gone from one of the best if not the best backup guards in the league to an inefficient below average backup. That is a huge decline in performance.

So you have a huge downturn in contribution from your backup forward slows run by Ingles and Niang & your backup guard spot with Clarkson.

-------------------

This is all so important because Utah's core trio (Gobert, Mitchell, Conley) simply isn't as good as other contender's cores. They either need a 4th star to go alongside them or superb contributions from the rest of the rotation.

They won big last season because they got superb contributions from their supporting cast. They are no longer getting that and are thus no longer an elite team. Just another good mid-seed playoff squad with no hopes of making a title run.

Clarkson in particular was very important with his shot-creation. He was their 2nd best scorer. His drop-off has been a huge loss to the Jazz. His TS% is now down to 53% with 31% accuracy on threes both well below league averages. Without him as a major offensive threat, Utah has become far too reliant on Donovan Mitchell. Before they were able to share the load some between the three guards with Bogdanovic adding some help at forward and Joe Ingles giving them secondary playmaking & ball-handling at forward which they have also lost. A huge decline in offensive contributions from the supporting cast.

Then you have the further issues of lack of quality defensive forwards with Royce O'Neale at 6-5 their only quality defensive wing player. Small backcourts with Mitchell, Conley and Clarkson. Over-reliance on Gobert who can be game-planned out of games in the playoffs by forcing switches and moving him out of the play & then attacking weaker Utah defenses.

Gobert continues to be more of a regular season player. His defense just doesn't translate as well to the playoffs. Like I said in the above post about Jokic, Gobert can pad his defensive impact stats against bad teams who don't have the shooters / offensive talent to expose Utah's defense that playoff teams have. Nor do they have the time for coaches to adjust systems to best exploit weaknesses or minimize defensive contributions in an 82 game schedule that a playoff coach has over a 7 game series.

Donovan Mitchell continues to be Utah's best playoff performer while Gobert continues to see big declines in his post-season impact relative to his regular seasons.

[Moranis]

Tough to see Denver taking a game in this series.  Those monstrous third quarter runs of death have returned with a vengeance now that Curry and Thompson are back and (mostly) healthy, and Denver doesn't have the personnel either to stem the tide or to keep up with it.  And Draymond might be the single best anti-Jokic weapon in the entire NBA.

It doesn't really matter what Jokic does, GSW have the defensive personnel to completely nullify his teammates. And his teammates absolutely cannot defend Klay, Curry or Poole.

Nor can Jokic. He is dead in the water against shooters like that. Especially Steph with his handles and quickness. Jokic doesn't have the footspeed to contain them on Team D.

This is the playoffs. Not the regular season where Jokic can pad his advanced defensive stats playing against many mediocre talents. Now he has to face quick sharp-shooting guards. He can't matchup to those guys on switches. This is why his defensive stats are so deceiving and misleading in terms of what you can expect from him in the playoffs when facing superior offensive talent.

It was CP3 and Booker last year. Steph and Co. this year. Same problem, different year.

Exactly.  For the Nuggets to win, Jokic has to be dominant on offense.  He has to put the Warriors in foul trouble.  He has to make them pay when they have their small lineup on the floor, such that they can't play it.  The Nuggets have been blown out because Jokic has played poorly on offense (it is expected for him to play poorly defensively). 

[tazzmaniac]

Tough to see Denver taking a game in this series.  Those monstrous third quarter runs of death have returned with a vengeance now that Curry and Thompson are back and (mostly) healthy, and Denver doesn't have the personnel either to stem the tide or to keep up with it.  And Draymond might be the single best anti-Jokic weapon in the entire NBA.

It doesn't really matter what Jokic does, GSW have the defensive personnel to completely nullify his teammates. And his teammates absolutely cannot defend Klay, Curry or Poole.

Nor can Jokic. He is dead in the water against shooters like that. Especially Steph with his handles and quickness. Jokic doesn't have the footspeed to contain them on Team D.

This is the playoffs. Not the regular season where Jokic can pad his advanced defensive stats playing against many mediocre talents. Now he has to face quick sharp-shooting guards. He can't matchup to those guys on switches. This is why his defensive stats are so deceiving and misleading in terms of what you can expect from him in the playoffs when facing superior offensive talent.

It was CP3 and Booker last year. Steph and Co. this year. Same problem, different year.

I agree.  It's one of those situations where stats don't match the "eye test".  There are ways to try to hide Jokic on defense, but he's going to make it very difficult for a team to play great defense around him because he's so limited.

It is a lot easier to hide deficiencies in the regular season.  If I recall correctly Gobert with his multi regular season DPOYs has been exposed in a couple playoff series.   

[#1P4P]

If the MVP criteria is who did more with less, Lebron and Harden are owed a few MVP awards. This argument won Westbrook the title as an 8 seed.

The best player on the best team should weigh heavier than any other metric. It may not get it right every season, but it’ll be closer to the right answer than prioritizing PER and the other advanced metrics.

Phoenix dominated the regular season and have been disregarded for individual awards. Nash won his MVP’s in seasons he had similar stats and impact as CP3 (who did more with less during his NO days and denied the MVP as well).

The MVP(s) are CP3 and/or Booker.

This is just false. Winning is not at all the only measure of individual impact, and it should not be regarded as such. Jokic is by far the most valuable player in the league, because he is the most valuable player to his team. His impact is literally historic - nobody has done the things he is doing this season.

I never said winning is the only measure, I said it should be weighed heavier than any other metric.

The Jokic MVP argument is the Westbrook MVP argument, “if it wasn’t for Westbrook and his historic numbers, OKC would be in the lottery instead of an 8th seed.”

It sounds infallible while they’re putting up historic numbers until you realize that winning, relative to the league, has to be the primary measure of value.

CP3 and Booker are penalized for having deflated stats on an outstanding team. While Jokic has the benefit of shouldering a larger workload (props to him that he can handle it, but it inflates his numbers) and the even better benefit of “what if” narratives.

I’m not against Jokic winning the MVP, these last 2 seasons have aligned perfectly for him (Embiid missing too many games last season). I do think the “who did more with less” MVP criteria is missing the point. The Nuggets with the MVP are an uncompetitive 1st round exit.

[celticsclay]

What series are people still excited for that this point. Celtics Nets is obvious, as is Memphis Minnesota at this point. But beyond that? Hard to imagine Bulls Bucks, 76ers Raptors (especially with the injures) becoming competitive. I guess I have random hope that the Hawks can do better than they did game 1, but probably wishful thinking on my part. Out west, Pelicans have no business even being in playoffs and hard to see anything more than a sweep or gentlemen's sweep. With Curry back, the warriors nuggets series doesn't seem very competitive. I guess the Dallas Utah series is competitive but it has been ugly basketball and I am not particularly excited about either team. Anyone else feel differently? Was hoping for more excitement the first round than it appears we will get (although game one of for us was absolutely outstanding.

[celticsclay]

If the MVP criteria is who did more with less, Lebron and Harden are owed a few MVP awards. This argument won Westbrook the title as an 8 seed.

The best player on the best team should weigh heavier than any other metric. It may not get it right every season, but it’ll be closer to the right answer than prioritizing PER and the other advanced metrics.

Phoenix dominated the regular season and have been disregarded for individual awards. Nash won his MVP’s in seasons he had similar stats and impact as CP3 (who did more with less during his NO days and denied the MVP as well).

The MVP(s) are CP3 and/or Booker.

This is just false. Winning is not at all the only measure of individual impact, and it should not be regarded as such. Jokic is by far the most valuable player in the league, because he is the most valuable player to his team. His impact is literally historic - nobody has done the things he is doing this season.

I never said winning is the only measure, I said it should be weighed heavier than any other metric.

The Jokic MVP argument is the Westbrook MVP argument, “if it wasn’t for Westbrook and his historic numbers, OKC would be in the lottery instead of an 8th seed.”

It sounds infallible while they’re putting up historic numbers until you realize that winning, relative to the league, has to be the primary measure of value.

CP3 and Booker are penalized for having deflated stats on an outstanding team. While Jokic has the benefit of shouldering a larger workload (props to him that he can handle it, but it inflates his numbers) and the even better benefit of “what if” narratives.

I’m not against Jokic winning the MVP, these last 2 seasons have aligned perfectly for him (Embiid missing too many games last season). I do think the “who did more with less” MVP criteria is missing the point. The Nuggets with the MVP are an uncompetitive 1st round exit.

Although I have stated a bunch of times I don't believe the Nuggets are a very good team and the supporting cast is awful, I do think they got a particularly bad draw here. The Warriors were on par with the Suns before Green and Curry had extended absences. They now are the healthiest they have been all year and Curry will only play more as the series continues. I do think the Nuggets would have made a series competitive against at least Memphis, Utah and Dallas (which were all plausible first round draws over the course of the season. Only the Suns and Warriors seem like they clearly would stomp them.

[Goldstar88]

What series are people still excited for that this point. Celtics Nets is obvious, as is Memphis Minnesota at this point. But beyond that? Hard to imagine Bulls Bucks, 76ers Raptors (especially with the injures) becoming competitive. I guess I have random hope that the Hawks can do better than they did game 1, but probably wishful thinking on my part. Out west, Pelicans have no business even being in playoffs and hard to see anything more than a sweep or gentlemen's sweep. With Curry back, the warriors nuggets series doesn't seem very competitive. I guess the Dallas Utah series is competitive but it has been ugly basketball and I am not particularly excited about either team. Anyone else feel differently? Was hoping for more excitement the first round than it appears we will get (although game one of for us was absolutely outstanding.

I expect some of the games to be better once the lower seed is playing on their home court. Utah/Dallas series is pretty interesting after Dallas was able to take game 2 without Luka. Bulls put up a pretty good fight vs the Bucks as well. Pels didn’t get blown out either, losing by 11. The series which seems most lopsided is the Warriors/Nuggets, which is a shame since it would have been competitive If Murray and Porter Jr were playing. I don’t expect Denver to win a game.

[Surferdad]

What series are people still excited for that this point. Celtics Nets is obvious, as is Memphis Minnesota at this point. But beyond that? Hard to imagine Bulls Bucks, 76ers Raptors (especially with the injures) becoming competitive. I guess I have random hope that the Hawks can do better than they did game 1, but probably wishful thinking on my part. Out west, Pelicans have no business even being in playoffs and hard to see anything more than a sweep or gentlemen's sweep. With Curry back, the warriors nuggets series doesn't seem very competitive. I guess the Dallas Utah series is competitive but it has been ugly basketball and I am not particularly excited about either team. Anyone else feel differently? Was hoping for more excitement the first round than it appears we will get (although game one of for us was absolutely outstanding.

The national talking heads (ESPN, TNT, etc) are absolutely swooning over the Celtics-Nets series, calling Game One the best of the entire series.  Maybe it will turn out to be so, but I think it also points to a lack of magnetism in the other Round One matchups.  We might have to wait for a lower seed to beat a higher seed in one game (hasn't happened yet, right?)

[RJD1974]

What series are people still excited for that this point. Celtics Nets is obvious, as is Memphis Minnesota at this point. But beyond that? Hard to imagine Bulls Bucks, 76ers Raptors (especially with the injures) becoming competitive. I guess I have random hope that the Hawks can do better than they did game 1, but probably wishful thinking on my part. Out west, Pelicans have no business even being in playoffs and hard to see anything more than a sweep or gentlemen's sweep. With Curry back, the warriors nuggets series doesn't seem very competitive. I guess the Dallas Utah series is competitive but it has been ugly basketball and I am not particularly excited about either team. Anyone else feel differently? Was hoping for more excitement the first round than it appears we will get (although game one of for us was absolutely outstanding.

The national talking heads (ESPN, TNT, etc) are absolutely swooning over the Celtics-Nets series, calling Game One the best of the entire series.  Maybe it will turn out to be so, but I think it also points to a lack of magnetism in the other Round One matchups.  We might have to wait for a lower seed to beat a higher seed in one game (hasn't happened yet, right?)

It happened with Memphis-Wolves (also 2/7).

But it's Memphis-Wolves. Star power should be there in spades, but I'm not sure anyone nationally actually cares about either team.

[gouki88]

Tough to see Denver taking a game in this series.  Those monstrous third quarter runs of death have returned with a vengeance now that Curry and Thompson are back and (mostly) healthy, and Denver doesn't have the personnel either to stem the tide or to keep up with it.  And Draymond might be the single best anti-Jokic weapon in the entire NBA.

It doesn't really matter what Jokic does, GSW have the defensive personnel to completely nullify his teammates. And his teammates absolutely cannot defend Klay, Curry or Poole.

Nor can Jokic. He is dead in the water against shooters like that. Especially Steph with his handles and quickness. Jokic doesn't have the footspeed to contain them on Team D.

This is the playoffs. Not the regular season where Jokic can pad his advanced defensive stats playing against many mediocre talents. Now he has to face quick sharp-shooting guards. He can't matchup to those guys on switches. This is why his defensive stats are so deceiving and misleading in terms of what you can expect from him in the playoffs when facing superior offensive talent.

It was CP3 and Booker last year. Steph and Co. this year. Same problem, different year.

Exactly.  For the Nuggets to win, Jokic has to be dominant on offense.  He has to put the Warriors in foul trouble.  He has to make them pay when they have their small lineup on the floor, such that they can't play it.  The Nuggets have been blown out because Jokic has played poorly on offense (it is expected for him to play poorly defensively).

This is just ridiculous. Sure, he's been inefficient from the field. But he is scoring 26PPG and getting 5 assists in 31 minutes of play. In what world is that poor? I just don't quite get what he's supposed to when he is both the premier scorer and the premier passer on his team, and his team sucks.

Sure, relative to his lofty expectations he's not playing at the same level. But he is stranded on an island out there. Will Barton is playing well on offence, but is an absolute sieve on defence. Monte Morris is playing alright. Aaron Gordon is playing at Semi Ojeleye levels.

Aaron Gordon might be the only positive defender Denver has, but when he's out there it's 4v5 for them on offence. Is that on Jokic? He's dragged his woeful team to the playoffs and comes up against the 2nd best team in the West. Not too surprising that his team is getting smacked.

[gouki88]

Atlanta playing much better thus far

[footey]

Atlanta playing much better thus far

Would love them to steal one in Miami.

Man we should have kept Struss lol.

[gouki88]

Atlanta playing much better thus far

Would love them to steal one in Miami.

Man we should have kept Struss lol.

Miami have a talent for developing guys who look like they have no chance of making it into pesky shooting threats!

[footey]

ATL too dependent on Trae on offense. Miami is really crowding him.