NBA Season 2021-22

[celticsclay]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

[gouki88]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

Tracy McGrady averaged 28/6/6 in 2003-04 and Orlando won 21 games. KG averaged 21/13/4 with GOAT-level defence in 05-06 and Minny won 33 games.

LeBron has made the playoffs more consistently than any player in NBA history, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get credit for that if you write "McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg".

[celticsclay]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

Tracy McGrady averaged 28/6/6 in 2003-04 and Orlando won 21 games. KG averaged 21/13/4 with GOAT-level defence in 05-06 and Minny won 33 games.

LeBron has made the playoffs more consistently than any player in NBA history, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get credit for that if you write "McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg".

Little surprised by how aggressive you are pushing this comparison. McGrady didn’t even make the top 75 players of all time. If you want to say Lebron is like Tracy McGrady now I think you will rile up the lbj fans, but he made the all nba second team the season you referenced. I think Lebron is probably headed towards the third team, and maybe off the teams if the lakers plummet to 11th or 12th in the west. My comments are for the people that have been slamming their hands on the table claiming Lebron is still a top 5 player as the lakers potentially fall out of the playin and insist he will play 6 more years. I think he is still a good player, but is more than fair to point out he is t a top 5 player this season. Full stop. Obviously McGrady didn’t make the first team and don’t think he finished top 5 in mvp. I will have to dig into kgs outlier season when I am less tired.

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

[tazzmaniac]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Strangely enough clay, your answer lies in the guy that is currently injured on the Lakers.

Davis was being hailed a top 5 player in the league for a couple years in New Orleans. But his teams always kinda sucked.

I never bought Davis as top five for that reason. And I don’t think Lebron is a top ten player right now. Heck I don’t think I have him top 13 at this point. I’m not sure this team isn’t better with butler in his spot. People this didn’t watch this game will say he had 31 points. But he has 10 unnecessarily playing down 30 in the 4th and is not contributing to winning at all.

If you actually think 13 players are better than Lebron, name them.  Personally, I don't think he's top 5 but he's definitely top 10. 

[Birdman]

Lakers got destroy at home by New Orleans! Love it…LeBron made this team up before the season and now look .. not the first time he ruin a team..waiting for him to blame someone or get an ending season “injury “

[Roy H.]

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Is your suggestion that because KG didn't rank higher on the All-NBA team then he wasn't a top-five player?

He was two seasons removed from MVP, and he finished third in the MVP voting two seasons later (along with first-team All-NBA).  The only thing that really changed is that he went from good teammates (Cassell, Sprewell) to terrible teammates (Ricky, Blount) to great teammates (Pierce, Allen).

Did KG suddenly get a lot better in 2008?

[Moranis]

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Is your suggestion that because KG didn't rank higher on the All-NBA team then he wasn't a top-five player?

He was two seasons removed from MVP, and he finished third in the MVP voting two seasons later (along with first-team All-NBA).  The only thing that really changed is that he went from good teammates (Cassell, Sprewell) to terrible teammates (Ricky, Blount) to great teammates (Pierce, Allen).

Did KG suddenly get a lot better in 2008?

All true.  Garnett was pretty consistently on terrible teams, certainly much below a team with someone as good as KG was supposed to be.

The Lakers are 21-22 with Lebron and more than half of those were without Davis.  Jordan had several seasons below .500.  I mean the 86-87 Bulls were 40-42 and that season MJ finished 2nd in MVP voting.  He played all 82 games so a similar record as the Lakers when Lebron actually plays.  Kareem's first season in LA they were below .500 and missed the playoffs.  The 05 Lakers were 34-48 (and 28-38 with Kobe).  Heck, Moses Malone took a 40-42 team to the Finals in Houston. 

This type of stuff happens when great players are saddled with bad teams and have some injuries themselves, but it doesn't mean they aren't still great players.  Lebron is pretty clearly a top 10 player still.  It basically impossible to argue otherwise.

[gouki88]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

Tracy McGrady averaged 28/6/6 in 2003-04 and Orlando won 21 games. KG averaged 21/13/4 with GOAT-level defence in 05-06 and Minny won 33 games.

LeBron has made the playoffs more consistently than any player in NBA history, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get credit for that if you write "McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg".

Little surprised by how aggressive you are pushing this comparison. McGrady didn’t even make the top 75 players of all time. If you want to say Lebron is like Tracy McGrady now I think you will rile up the lbj fans, but he made the all nba second team the season you referenced. I think Lebron is probably headed towards the third team, and maybe off the teams if the lakers plummet to 11th or 12th in the west. My comments are for the people that have been slamming their hands on the table claiming Lebron is still a top 5 player as the lakers potentially fall out of the playin and insist he will play 6 more years. I think he is still a good player, but is more than fair to point out he is t a top 5 player this season. Full stop. Obviously McGrady didn’t make the first team and don’t think he finished top 5 in mvp. I will have to dig into kgs outlier season when I am less tired.

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Still waiting on those dozen players better than LeBron this season... TP

[celticsclay]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

Tracy McGrady averaged 28/6/6 in 2003-04 and Orlando won 21 games. KG averaged 21/13/4 with GOAT-level defence in 05-06 and Minny won 33 games.

LeBron has made the playoffs more consistently than any player in NBA history, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get credit for that if you write "McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg".

Little surprised by how aggressive you are pushing this comparison. McGrady didn’t even make the top 75 players of all time. If you want to say Lebron is like Tracy McGrady now I think you will rile up the lbj fans, but he made the all nba second team the season you referenced. I think Lebron is probably headed towards the third team, and maybe off the teams if the lakers plummet to 11th or 12th in the west. My comments are for the people that have been slamming their hands on the table claiming Lebron is still a top 5 player as the lakers potentially fall out of the playin and insist he will play 6 more years. I think he is still a good player, but is more than fair to point out he is t a top 5 player this season. Full stop. Obviously McGrady didn’t make the first team and don’t think he finished top 5 in mvp. I will have to dig into kgs outlier season when I am less tired.

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Still waiting on those dozen players better than LeBron this season... TP

Ok, guys I have that are playing better and having better seasons off the top of my head. Some of them, like Durant obviously need to come back and be healthy to hold their position.

Giannis
Embid
Jokic
Curry
Durant
Donic
Demar
Ja Morant

I don't think there is much of an argument that those guys are playing better, and in most of their cases significantly better than Lebron and all have their teams poised for greater success. Some of them like Dallas and Denver, don't even have significantly better supporting casts than the what LA has had most of the season.

Lebron is in a group of the next level that has about 5-7 people in it like
Butler
Booker
Tatum
Mitchell
Gobert
Towns
And what we are seeing from Harden in Philly.

So could he be as high as like 9th? Maybe, but he definitely isn't higher than that and that was kind of my point. Also I feel like people are just looking at this counting stats and not really watching their games. He routinely is getting a lot of points in blowouts (for example last night, his box score looks ok but he actually added on 11 points in the 4th quarter when his team was down 30. Players like Curry don;t even go into the game in those situations and this has been happening all year). He even once ran in for a layup after the other team had conceded the game and stopped playing to the point the lakers broadcasters joked he really wanted to pass Kareem. He has also contributed to their awful defense, is constantly pouting and is not putting in the consistent effort of these others guys. People can cry all they want, but he shouldn't be losing to the pelicans by 30 at home and he, like everyone else, has some blame in that.

[celticsclay]

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Is your suggestion that because KG didn't rank higher on the All-NBA team then he wasn't a top-five player?

He was two seasons removed from MVP, and he finished third in the MVP voting two seasons later (along with first-team All-NBA).  The only thing that really changed is that he went from good teammates (Cassell, Sprewell) to terrible teammates (Ricky, Blount) to great teammates (Pierce, Allen).

Did KG suddenly get a lot better in 2008?

Roy to answer your question it is definitely possible KG didn't play like a top 5 player that season. I obviously have no memory of Garnett's games or how he was playing from 15 some years ago, but there are definitely times where a player gets saddled on a really crappy team, become frustrated, their effort wanes and they are not playing to their talent level because of their situation. Obviously Vince Carter on the raptors is a great example of this. He was not even playing like a top 40 player on the raptors averaging 16 points and shooting 40% from the field. Then he got to the Nets and started trying again and overnight was averaging 28 points and shooting 46% from the field. Again, I don't know if this is the case or not for that KG season but it is pretty normal and natural to start playing crappier yourself if you have bad teammates and are frustrated. It is possible this is part of the reason Lebron is not playing that well this season, because he has certainly had some really pathetic defensive efforts this season and I imagine he would at least attempt to play better on that end in a playoff series. However, I am a bit more skeptical it is all effort cause he his obviously quite old and has developed several nagging injuries. He currently is battling a bad knee and lakers announcers say he should be sitting to try and rest it but can't. I think that is certainly contributing to his not top level play. 

[Goldstar88]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

Tracy McGrady averaged 28/6/6 in 2003-04 and Orlando won 21 games. KG averaged 21/13/4 with GOAT-level defence in 05-06 and Minny won 33 games.

LeBron has made the playoffs more consistently than any player in NBA history, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get credit for that if you write "McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg".

Little surprised by how aggressive you are pushing this comparison. McGrady didn’t even make the top 75 players of all time. If you want to say Lebron is like Tracy McGrady now I think you will rile up the lbj fans, but he made the all nba second team the season you referenced. I think Lebron is probably headed towards the third team, and maybe off the teams if the lakers plummet to 11th or 12th in the west. My comments are for the people that have been slamming their hands on the table claiming Lebron is still a top 5 player as the lakers potentially fall out of the playin and insist he will play 6 more years. I think he is still a good player, but is more than fair to point out he is t a top 5 player this season. Full stop. Obviously McGrady didn’t make the first team and don’t think he finished top 5 in mvp. I will have to dig into kgs outlier season when I am less tired.

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Still waiting on those dozen players better than LeBron this season... TP

Ok, guys I have that are playing better and having better seasons off the top of my head. Some of them, like Durant obviously need to come back and be healthy to hold their position.

Giannis
Embid
Jokic
Curry
Durant
Donic
Demar
Ja Morant

I don't think there is much of an argument that those guys are playing better, and in most of their cases significantly better than Lebron and all have their teams poised for greater success. Some of them like Dallas and Denver, don't even have significantly better supporting casts than the what LA has had most of the season.

Lebron is in a group of the next level that has about 5-7 people in it like
Butler
Booker
Tatum
Mitchell
Gobert
Towns
And what we are seeing from Harden in Philly.

So could he be as high as like 9th? Maybe, but he definitely isn't higher than that and that was kind of my point. Also I feel like people are just looking at this counting stats and not really watching their games. He routinely is getting a lot of points in blowouts (for example last night, his box score looks ok but he actually added on 11 points in the 4th quarter when his team was down 30. Players like Curry don;t even go into the game in those situations and this has been happening all year). He even once ran in for a layup after the other team had conceded the game and stopped playing to the point the lakers broadcasters joked he really wanted to pass Kareem. He has also contributed to their awful defense, is constantly pouting and is not putting in the consistent effort of these others guys. People can cry all they want, but he shouldn't be losing to the pelicans by 30 at home and he, like everyone else, has some blame in that.

Hate to say it, but you are probably going to have to add Harden to that first group. I’d go:
Jokic
Durant
Embiid
Giannis
Curry
Harden
Lebron

[Roy H.]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

Tracy McGrady averaged 28/6/6 in 2003-04 and Orlando won 21 games. KG averaged 21/13/4 with GOAT-level defence in 05-06 and Minny won 33 games.

LeBron has made the playoffs more consistently than any player in NBA history, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get credit for that if you write "McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg".

Little surprised by how aggressive you are pushing this comparison. McGrady didn’t even make the top 75 players of all time. If you want to say Lebron is like Tracy McGrady now I think you will rile up the lbj fans, but he made the all nba second team the season you referenced. I think Lebron is probably headed towards the third team, and maybe off the teams if the lakers plummet to 11th or 12th in the west. My comments are for the people that have been slamming their hands on the table claiming Lebron is still a top 5 player as the lakers potentially fall out of the playin and insist he will play 6 more years. I think he is still a good player, but is more than fair to point out he is t a top 5 player this season. Full stop. Obviously McGrady didn’t make the first team and don’t think he finished top 5 in mvp. I will have to dig into kgs outlier season when I am less tired.

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Still waiting on those dozen players better than LeBron this season... TP

Ok, guys I have that are playing better and having better seasons off the top of my head. Some of them, like Durant obviously need to come back and be healthy to hold their position.

Giannis
Embid
Jokic
Curry
Durant
Donic
Demar
Ja Morant

I don't think there is much of an argument that those guys are playing better, and in most of their cases significantly better than Lebron and all have their teams poised for greater success. Some of them like Dallas and Denver, don't even have significantly better supporting casts than the what LA has had most of the season.

Lebron is in a group of the next level that has about 5-7 people in it like
Butler
Booker
Tatum
Mitchell
Gobert
Towns
And what we are seeing from Harden in Philly.

So could he be as high as like 9th? Maybe, but he definitely isn't higher than that and that was kind of my point. Also I feel like people are just looking at this counting stats and not really watching their games. He routinely is getting a lot of points in blowouts (for example last night, his box score looks ok but he actually added on 11 points in the 4th quarter when his team was down 30. Players like Curry don;t even go into the game in those situations and this has been happening all year). He even once ran in for a layup after the other team had conceded the game and stopped playing to the point the lakers broadcasters joked he really wanted to pass Kareem. He has also contributed to their awful defense, is constantly pouting and is not putting in the consistent effort of these others guys. People can cry all they want, but he shouldn't be losing to the pelicans by 30 at home and he, like everyone else, has some blame in that.

I'd love to see the day when Tatum can credibly be argued to be as good as 2022 Lebron.

[celticsclay]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

Tracy McGrady averaged 28/6/6 in 2003-04 and Orlando won 21 games. KG averaged 21/13/4 with GOAT-level defence in 05-06 and Minny won 33 games.

LeBron has made the playoffs more consistently than any player in NBA history, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get credit for that if you write "McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg".

Little surprised by how aggressive you are pushing this comparison. McGrady didn’t even make the top 75 players of all time. If you want to say Lebron is like Tracy McGrady now I think you will rile up the lbj fans, but he made the all nba second team the season you referenced. I think Lebron is probably headed towards the third team, and maybe off the teams if the lakers plummet to 11th or 12th in the west. My comments are for the people that have been slamming their hands on the table claiming Lebron is still a top 5 player as the lakers potentially fall out of the playin and insist he will play 6 more years. I think he is still a good player, but is more than fair to point out he is t a top 5 player this season. Full stop. Obviously McGrady didn’t make the first team and don’t think he finished top 5 in mvp. I will have to dig into kgs outlier season when I am less tired.

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Still waiting on those dozen players better than LeBron this season... TP

Ok, guys I have that are playing better and having better seasons off the top of my head. Some of them, like Durant obviously need to come back and be healthy to hold their position.

Giannis
Embid
Jokic
Curry
Durant
Donic
Demar
Ja Morant

I don't think there is much of an argument that those guys are playing better, and in most of their cases significantly better than Lebron and all have their teams poised for greater success. Some of them like Dallas and Denver, don't even have significantly better supporting casts than the what LA has had most of the season.

Lebron is in a group of the next level that has about 5-7 people in it like
Butler
Booker
Tatum
Mitchell
Gobert
Towns
And what we are seeing from Harden in Philly.

So could he be as high as like 9th? Maybe, but he definitely isn't higher than that and that was kind of my point. Also I feel like people are just looking at this counting stats and not really watching their games. He routinely is getting a lot of points in blowouts (for example last night, his box score looks ok but he actually added on 11 points in the 4th quarter when his team was down 30. Players like Curry don;t even go into the game in those situations and this has been happening all year). He even once ran in for a layup after the other team had conceded the game and stopped playing to the point the lakers broadcasters joked he really wanted to pass Kareem. He has also contributed to their awful defense, is constantly pouting and is not putting in the consistent effort of these others guys. People can cry all they want, but he shouldn't be losing to the pelicans by 30 at home and he, like everyone else, has some blame in that.

Hate to say it, but you are probably going to have to add Harden to that first group. I’d go:
Jokic
Durant
Embiid
Giannis
Curry
Harden
Lebron

How not Doncic and Morant?

[celticsclay]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

Tracy McGrady averaged 28/6/6 in 2003-04 and Orlando won 21 games. KG averaged 21/13/4 with GOAT-level defence in 05-06 and Minny won 33 games.

LeBron has made the playoffs more consistently than any player in NBA history, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get credit for that if you write "McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg".

Little surprised by how aggressive you are pushing this comparison. McGrady didn’t even make the top 75 players of all time. If you want to say Lebron is like Tracy McGrady now I think you will rile up the lbj fans, but he made the all nba second team the season you referenced. I think Lebron is probably headed towards the third team, and maybe off the teams if the lakers plummet to 11th or 12th in the west. My comments are for the people that have been slamming their hands on the table claiming Lebron is still a top 5 player as the lakers potentially fall out of the playin and insist he will play 6 more years. I think he is still a good player, but is more than fair to point out he is t a top 5 player this season. Full stop. Obviously McGrady didn’t make the first team and don’t think he finished top 5 in mvp. I will have to dig into kgs outlier season when I am less tired.

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Still waiting on those dozen players better than LeBron this season... TP

Ok, guys I have that are playing better and having better seasons off the top of my head. Some of them, like Durant obviously need to come back and be healthy to hold their position.

Giannis
Embid
Jokic
Curry
Durant
Donic
Demar
Ja Morant

I don't think there is much of an argument that those guys are playing better, and in most of their cases significantly better than Lebron and all have their teams poised for greater success. Some of them like Dallas and Denver, don't even have significantly better supporting casts than the what LA has had most of the season.

Lebron is in a group of the next level that has about 5-7 people in it like
Butler
Booker
Tatum
Mitchell
Gobert
Towns
And what we are seeing from Harden in Philly.

So could he be as high as like 9th? Maybe, but he definitely isn't higher than that and that was kind of my point. Also I feel like people are just looking at this counting stats and not really watching their games. He routinely is getting a lot of points in blowouts (for example last night, his box score looks ok but he actually added on 11 points in the 4th quarter when his team was down 30. Players like Curry don;t even go into the game in those situations and this has been happening all year). He even once ran in for a layup after the other team had conceded the game and stopped playing to the point the lakers broadcasters joked he really wanted to pass Kareem. He has also contributed to their awful defense, is constantly pouting and is not putting in the consistent effort of these others guys. People can cry all they want, but he shouldn't be losing to the pelicans by 30 at home and he, like everyone else, has some blame in that.

I'd love to see the day when Tatum can credibly be argued to be as good as 2022 Lebron.

What is the big gap in your mind? I think Tatum is probably one of the weaker players I listed going by advanced stats. Lebron's defense has definitely fallen off a cliff since his peak. If you dig into both advanced stats and team record some of the guys I mentioned like Gobert absolutely destroy Lebron. I am wondering if people are getting a bit caught off in the POINTZ argument and his name and not actually digging a bit deeper/watching his games.

[Roy H.]

I’ll ask the same question again that nobody wants to answer. If Lebron is a top ten or too 5 player right now as people on here continually claim. How is he losing to teams that have a best player like Reggie Jackson or cj McCollum? Has there ever been a top 5 player that led a team to 8 games under .500? When we are we gonna face reality on this?

Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady immediately spring to mind.

I would have to look through their careers but my memory was that McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg. It looks like Garnett made it all but three of his of career until the end with Minnesota.

Tracy McGrady averaged 28/6/6 in 2003-04 and Orlando won 21 games. KG averaged 21/13/4 with GOAT-level defence in 05-06 and Minny won 33 games.

LeBron has made the playoffs more consistently than any player in NBA history, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get credit for that if you write "McGrady made the playoffs the majority of his career as did kg".

Little surprised by how aggressive you are pushing this comparison. McGrady didn’t even make the top 75 players of all time. If you want to say Lebron is like Tracy McGrady now I think you will rile up the lbj fans, but he made the all nba second team the season you referenced. I think Lebron is probably headed towards the third team, and maybe off the teams if the lakers plummet to 11th or 12th in the west. My comments are for the people that have been slamming their hands on the table claiming Lebron is still a top 5 player as the lakers potentially fall out of the playin and insist he will play 6 more years. I think he is still a good player, but is more than fair to point out he is t a top 5 player this season. Full stop. Obviously McGrady didn’t make the first team and don’t think he finished top 5 in mvp. I will have to dig into kgs outlier season when I am less tired.

Edit: Garnett made 3rd team all nba the season you referenced. So you kind of just agreed with me in a really roundabout way? Kind of a strange post gouki. Tp tho

Still waiting on those dozen players better than LeBron this season... TP

Ok, guys I have that are playing better and having better seasons off the top of my head. Some of them, like Durant obviously need to come back and be healthy to hold their position.

Giannis
Embid
Jokic
Curry
Durant
Donic
Demar
Ja Morant

I don't think there is much of an argument that those guys are playing better, and in most of their cases significantly better than Lebron and all have their teams poised for greater success. Some of them like Dallas and Denver, don't even have significantly better supporting casts than the what LA has had most of the season.

Lebron is in a group of the next level that has about 5-7 people in it like
Butler
Booker
Tatum
Mitchell
Gobert
Towns
And what we are seeing from Harden in Philly.

So could he be as high as like 9th? Maybe, but he definitely isn't higher than that and that was kind of my point. Also I feel like people are just looking at this counting stats and not really watching their games. He routinely is getting a lot of points in blowouts (for example last night, his box score looks ok but he actually added on 11 points in the 4th quarter when his team was down 30. Players like Curry don;t even go into the game in those situations and this has been happening all year). He even once ran in for a layup after the other team had conceded the game and stopped playing to the point the lakers broadcasters joked he really wanted to pass Kareem. He has also contributed to their awful defense, is constantly pouting and is not putting in the consistent effort of these others guys. People can cry all they want, but he shouldn't be losing to the pelicans by 30 at home and he, like everyone else, has some blame in that.

I'd love to see the day when Tatum can credibly be argued to be as good as 2022 Lebron.

What is the big gap in your mind? I think Tatum is probably one of the weaker players I listed going by advanced stats. Lebron's defense has definitely fallen off a cliff since his peak. If you dig into both advanced stats and team record some of the guys I mentioned like Gobert absolutely destroy Lebron. I am wondering if people are getting a bit caught off in the POINTZ argument and his name and not actually digging a bit deeper/watching his games.

Efficiency is a big one.  .584 eFG% despite being the defense's primary (and lately, sole) focus.