The Weird Thing About This Off-Season...

[Roy H.]

Brad has made four trades, selected one draft pick, signed two free agents and added a two-way contract. 

We've seen 13 players (or their rights) come, go, or come and then go.  Kemba, Moses, Horford, Begarin, Sengun, Richardson, Thompson, Fernando, Dunn, Schroder, Kanter, Fournier, Hauser.

And yet not one power forward, our biggest position of need.

What do you make of it?  Is it a supply and demand issue?  Or does Brad simply think he has the position covered between Tatum, Grant Williams and Jabari Parker?

[colincb]

Horford may well get some minutes at PF in a two-big lineup also.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/nba-boston-celtics-horford-forward/

For much of the 2020-21 NBA season, fans of the Boston Celtics struggled to watch the double big lineups that paired emerging center Robert Williams III with veteran big men Daniel Theis and Tristan Thompson in various levels of effectiveness.

While Williams’ helped make some of those combinations more functional than others, Celtics fans were not particularly fond of the throwback lineup to the point it may have eased the pain of moving on from Theis at the 2021 trade deadline — and was practically celebrated in some corners when the Celtics traded away Thompson this offseason.

If you happen to be among those fans, you may not be so crazy about what the Athletic’s Jared Weiss has to say about the team’s plans for old friend Al Horford in 2021-22 with regards to Timelord in the lineup.

“I expect him to play the four for the most part,” explained Weiss. “That’s generally what I was hearing.”

 “I know Horford has generally wanted to play the four most of his career when he could, and as long as he’s shooting the ball, fine,” added the Athletic insider.

    “He works as a four because he’s so smart in the way that he moves the ball. He does take away a little bit about the speed of how much you can move bodies and the ball around the perimeter, but he tends to make up for it with how smart he is with it. And Rob Williams last year got a lot better playing out of that dunker spot down in the baseline to stay out of the way of guys attacking the rim. If he continues to get better playing out of that area, or even can start hitting some mid-range shots — which he’s done on very rare occasions — then they could probably space the floor pretty well and then play very well with those two guys out there offensively.”

“It’s a ton of unknowns at this point,” Weiss added.

[Roy H.]

Eh...  I think Ime saw first hand what Horford looks like as a PF these days.  He couldn't play the position next to Embiid, and I don't think he'll play it well in Boston, either.

[RJ87]

I think it's a supply/demand issue. We were linked to guys like Rudy Gay and Jeff Green early in free agency, but a lot of other teams were interested too.

Considering where we are in the market - not a team with cap space to outbid other teams, and unable to promise a deep playoff as we're just coming off a .500 season and 1st round exit - it's hard to get guys when there a better situations for them.

[RodyTur10]

Enes Kanter played a lot of PF when he was in Oklahoma next to Steven Adams.
In general he needs a big to help protect the rim anyway.
I'd like the duo Kanter/Horford coming from the bench and see how it works.

Going small with Nesmith is also an option. Nesmith has some trouble with defending guards, but is a surprising good rebounder. To me Nesmith is more a SF/PF than a SG/SF.

[gouki88]

Horford may well get some minutes at PF in a two-big lineup also.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/nba-boston-celtics-horford-forward/

For much of the 2020-21 NBA season, fans of the Boston Celtics struggled to watch the double big lineups that paired emerging center Robert Williams III with veteran big men Daniel Theis and Tristan Thompson in various levels of effectiveness.

While Williams’ helped make some of those combinations more functional than others, Celtics fans were not particularly fond of the throwback lineup to the point it may have eased the pain of moving on from Theis at the 2021 trade deadline — and was practically celebrated in some corners when the Celtics traded away Thompson this offseason.

If you happen to be among those fans, you may not be so crazy about what the Athletic’s Jared Weiss has to say about the team’s plans for old friend Al Horford in 2021-22 with regards to Timelord in the lineup.

“I expect him to play the four for the most part,” explained Weiss. “That’s generally what I was hearing.”

 “I know Horford has generally wanted to play the four most of his career when he could, and as long as he’s shooting the ball, fine,” added the Athletic insider.

    “He works as a four because he’s so smart in the way that he moves the ball. He does take away a little bit about the speed of how much you can move bodies and the ball around the perimeter, but he tends to make up for it with how smart he is with it. And Rob Williams last year got a lot better playing out of that dunker spot down in the baseline to stay out of the way of guys attacking the rim. If he continues to get better playing out of that area, or even can start hitting some mid-range shots — which he’s done on very rare occasions — then they could probably space the floor pretty well and then play very well with those two guys out there offensively.”

“It’s a ton of unknowns at this point,” Weiss added.

This would be terrible. Horford stunk as a 4 in his most recent attempts, he's simply too slow now.

In answering Roy's question - I think there was a lot of demand for the veteran PFs we were looking at. We were also a relatively unstable team with a new coach and a significant amount of roster turnover.

[Roy H.]

Enes Kanter also played a lot of PF when he was in Oklahoma next to Steven Adams.
In general he needs a big to help protect the rim anyway.
I'd like the duo Kanter/Horford coming from the bench and see how it works.

What am I missing?  How is Kanter going to guard anybody on the perimeter?

Best case scenario, that was five years ago, when both guys were younger and more nimble.

[RodyTur10]

Enes Kanter also played a lot of PF when he was in Oklahoma next to Steven Adams.
In general he needs a big to help protect the rim anyway.
I'd like the duo Kanter/Horford coming from the bench and see how it works.

What am I missing?  How is Kanter going to guard anybody on the perimeter?

Kanter is a defensive liability anyway. More important is to have someone to guard the rim next to him to avoid easy layups. In his first stint with the Celtics, coach Stevens often combined Kanter with Grant Williams. Where Kanter did the rebounding and offensive work, while Grant had the defensive awareness to be in the right position to help out protecting the rim.

Horford can do the same as Grant did, but also bring some extra juice to the offense. Looking at the other side, there are not many teams equipped to defend both Kanter and Horford together.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Bruno Fernando plays PF too, whether that's where his strength is that's another matter... getting on the floor another.

I've mainly been looking into more PF/C types... like Bobby Portis kinda player, and we're certainly missing some of that. Horford is the only real one that can fit that role from what I can see.

That said I really like Parker getting minutes at PF, but he can't be the call against every team. We'll see. I'm not OVERLY worried about it.

[gouki88]

Enes Kanter also played a lot of PF when he was in Oklahoma next to Steven Adams.
In general he needs a big to help protect the rim anyway.
I'd like the duo Kanter/Horford coming from the bench and see how it works.

What am I missing?  How is Kanter going to guard anybody on the perimeter?

Kanter is a defensive liability anyway. More important is to have someone to guard the rim next to him to avoid easy layups. In his first stint with the Celtics, coach Stevens often combined Kanter with Grant Williams. Where Kanter did the rebounding and offensive work, while Grant had the defensive awareness to be in the right position to help out protecting the rim.

Horford can do the same as Grant did, but also bring some extra juice to the offense. Looking at the other side, there are not many teams equipped to defend both Kanter and Horford together.

I don't think it's a wise move to willingly give up easy perimeter looks. Kanter gets killed in the PnR as the big, can't imagine how poorly he'd do defending PnR ball-handlers

[sgrogan]

Enes Kanter also played a lot of PF when he was in Oklahoma next to Steven Adams.
In general he needs a big to help protect the rim anyway.
I'd like the duo Kanter/Horford coming from the bench and see how it works.

What am I missing?  How is Kanter going to guard anybody on the perimeter?

Best case scenario, that was five years ago, when both guys were younger and more nimble.

I'm also worried about Al on the perimeter at his age. And if AL and RWIII play together that's more Kanter minutes at C.
I think we have to consider JB in this mix as well. I think he guarded the other teams "PF" as often as Tatum did. Ideally both would have to do this less.

A 3&D guy should be available via the TPE at the deadline. I've always liked Covington, but either of the Morris twins, Bagley, etc are options. They are all flawed and fit is probably most important. Can they defend, and at least be a litle switchy, and shoot average from 3, and have an ego that allows them to accept the role. Supposedly Griffen was in the mix last year.

[Jvalin]

Kanter is one of the slowest-footed players in the NBA. He'd get killed on the perimeter. To a lesser extent, the same goes for Horford due to his age. At this point in his career he ain't mobile enough to defend the perimeter.

Imo, Tatum is at his best when playing at the 4. Traditional PFs aren't mobile enough to stay in front of him on the perimeter. This is a massive advantage in our favour, especially since Tatum can put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. If I were Udoka, I'd go uber small. I'd use Tatum exclusively at PF. My backup PF would be Jaylen. He played 8% of his minutes at PF last season. My third option at PF would be Smart. I mean, he can provide cover 1 through 4 on defense. I'd much rather play Smart over Jabari or Grant.

PG: Schroder (28) - Smart (12) - Pritchard (8 )
SG: Brown (12) - JRich (12) - Pritchard (16) - Smart (8 )
SF: Nesmith (24) - JRich (12) - Smart (8 ) - Brown (4)
PF: Tatum (32) - Brown (16) - Smart (not regularly)
C: Horford (24) - Timelord (24) - Kanter (depending on matchups)

Total minutes per player
Tatum, Brown: 32
Schroder, Smart: 28
Horford, Timelord, JRich, Pritchard, Nesmith: 24

(This is just what I would do. I don't expect Udoka to start Nesmith. Not early in the season anyway.)

Fwiw, our summer league team was uber small as well. Our de facto PF was Nesmith at 6'5''!

[Celtics2021]

Probably largely a supply issue, but there could be a bit of thinking it's covered.  We have a lot of wings and guards, so maybe we even see Brown soak some minutes there when Tatum is out if Grant and Jabari aren't up to it.

But mostly supply -- there haven't been a lot of PF options on the market.  Miami did manage to get two (PJ Tucker and Markieff Morris).  The rumor seemed to be that Otto Porter Jr. turned down more money elsewhere to go to Golden State for the minimum, so it's unlikely he was a true option.  John Collins was pretty much unattainable given how difficult a sign-and-trade would have been to construct.  It sounds like they kicked the tires on Lauri Markkanen, but he wanted too much, and as he's still unsigned at this late date, that probably can't be blamed on the Celtics (or the Spurs, who also tried for him).  Maybe James Johnson would have been nice, but it's questionable how much he has left in the tank.

It mostly seems it wasn't a good year for the position.  A bunch of guys at or below the MLE, so the types we're going to lose to Miami, LA, Golden State, and Brooklyn.  Still waiting to see what happens to Millsap, although I think he sits out the first half of the season to make sure he signs with a competitor.  I do think that this spot will be addressed via trade at or before the deadline if internal options aren't sufficient.  Between trade exceptions and expirings like Dunn, we should be able to bring in someone if needed.

I could see a few minutes of Horford and TL playing together -- Horford as a perimeter big on offense with TL in the paint, and TL guarding the 4 on defense -- but that would likely only be for some matchups as opposed to a regular feature, and requires both to be available the same night anyway.

[sgrogan]

Kanter is one of the slowest-footed players in the NBA. He'd get killed on the perimeter. To a lesser extent, the same goes for Horford due to his age. At this point in his career he ain't mobile enough to defend the perimeter.

Imo, Tatum is at his best when playing at the 4. Traditional PFs aren't mobile enough to stay in front of him on the perimeter. This is a massive advantage in our favour, especially since Tatum can put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. If I were Udoka, I'd go uber small. I'd use Tatum exclusively at PF. My backup PF would be Jaylen. He played 8% of his minutes at PF last season. My third option at PF would be Smart. I mean, he can provide cover 1 through 4 on defense. I'd much rather play Smart over Jabari or Grant.

PG: Schroder (28) - Smart (12) - Pritchard (8 )
SG: Brown (12) - JRich (12) - Pritchard (16) - Smart (8 )
SF: Nesmith (24) - JRich (12) - Smart (8 ) - Brown (4)
PF: Tatum (32) - Brown (16) - Smart (not regularly)
C: Horford (24) - Timelord (24) - Kanter (depending on matchups)

Total minutes per player
Tatum, Brown: 32
Schroder, Smart: 28
Horford, Timelord, JRich, Pritchard, Nesmith: 24

(This is just what I would do. I don't expect Udoka to start Nesmith. Not early in the season anyway.)

Fwiw, our summer league team was uber small as well. Our de facto PF was Nesmith at 6'5''!

I think JB guarded the "PF" way more often.
I am envisioning the same players in the rotation though. I think Smart starts and gets more minutes than Schroder.
I'd probably have JRich start and more minutes than Pritchard.
If Nesmith could overtake JRich by the end of the season, I think that would be a good thing.

[Jvalin]

Kanter is one of the slowest-footed players in the NBA. He'd get killed on the perimeter. To a lesser extent, the same goes for Horford due to his age. At this point in his career he ain't mobile enough to defend the perimeter.

Imo, Tatum is at his best when playing at the 4. Traditional PFs aren't mobile enough to stay in front of him on the perimeter. This is a massive advantage in our favour, especially since Tatum can put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. If I were Udoka, I'd go uber small. I'd use Tatum exclusively at PF. My backup PF would be Jaylen. He played 8% of his minutes at PF last season. My third option at PF would be Smart. I mean, he can provide cover 1 through 4 on defense. I'd much rather play Smart over Jabari or Grant.

PG: Schroder (28) - Smart (12) - Pritchard (8 )
SG: Brown (12) - JRich (12) - Pritchard (16) - Smart (8 )
SF: Nesmith (24) - JRich (12) - Smart (8 ) - Brown (4)
PF: Tatum (32) - Brown (16) - Smart (not regularly)
C: Horford (24) - Timelord (24) - Kanter (depending on matchups)

Total minutes per player
Tatum, Brown: 32
Schroder, Smart: 28
Horford, Timelord, JRich, Pritchard, Nesmith: 24

(This is just what I would do. I don't expect Udoka to start Nesmith. Not early in the season anyway.)

Fwiw, our summer league team was uber small as well. Our de facto PF was Nesmith at 6'5''!

I think JB guarded the "PF" way more often.
I am envisioning the same players in the rotation though. I think Smart starts and gets more minutes than Schroder.
I'd probably have JRich start and more minutes than Pritchard.
If Nesmith could overtake JRich by the end of the season, I think that would be a good thing.

We were switching pretty much everything on D. The three most notable exceptions were Kemba, Pritchard and Timelord. Kemba and Pritchard ain't tall/strong enough to switch ball screens on D. If they were forced to switch, we were usually trying to hide them on off-ball shooters. Timelord ain't got the lateral quicks to switch ball screens on the perimeter. He was operating in a drop scheme on defense. Curious to see Udoka's defensive philosophy. I assume we'll continue to run a switch-heavy defensive scheme, cause the team is built around 2 switchable (s)wings in Tatum and Brown. Not to mention, Smart is probably the 2nd most versatile/switchable guard defender in the NBA behind only Ben Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with).