Author Topic: Why Tatum Dribbles Too Much (per Danny and Max) (Read 6240 times)

footey · « **on:** August 13, 2021, 01:01:11 PM »

Celtics Beat dropped a great podcast yesterday, in which Adam Kaufman talks with Cedric Maxwell.

AK expressed excitement about Ime's press conference where he said he wanted to install more ball movement next season, trust your teammates, play together. No more ISO ball.

Max's response was very interesting:

"I think it's easy to say, but you look at guys' games too. And I remember talking to Danny. We were talking about the differences between Tatum and Brown. I said that at some times for me where, Tatum, as great as he is, when he has the ball and he's dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, then the defense becomes more entrenched. You don't move. ... And I said, now, Jaylen, on the other hand, he is quick, he's efficient, it's up it's out, I'm going home, I'm out the door. Danny made a good point with me, he said Tatum has to put the ball on the floor a little bit more. He doesn't have that in his game like Brown. He's gonna try to beat you to the hole with stutter step dribble. He's going to try and beat you, you know, stepping away from the rim, you know taking two or three more dribbles to do that. That is what my concern is. I think that there is points for improvement for both these guys."

Ime's biggest challenge as a coach (inheriting Brad's biggest challenge as a coach) is how to design a ball movement offense where your best player's skill set requires additional clock time to free up. It can be done. But it will be a challenge. Some of my frustration last season was Tatum's tendency to over-dribble, and stagnate the offense.

I also wonder what it means, in this context, to give Tatum more play-making responsibility. It is going to be a real challenge.

It was refreshing to hear Max' candor on this subject.

Who · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2021, 01:07:47 PM »

Same as Harden. Lacks that elite athleticism. Has to lull you to sleep while he looks for an opportunity he can exploit then he attacks.

liam · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2021, 01:10:20 PM »

I thought that Tatum went much quicker in the Olympic games.

Donoghus · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2021, 01:13:22 PM »

My one big criticism of Tatum. Drives me nuts at times. The stagnation that comes out of it sometimes.

Roy H. · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2021, 01:16:58 PM »

I suspect that Tatum dribbles too much, in part, because he doesn't completely trust his teammates. I can't really blame him. He can keep the ball, or pass to Marcus Smart or one of last year's bench teammates for a seemingly inevitable brick.

I don't mind Tatum holding the ball as much as some people do. Iso ball is so popular in the NBA because, frankly, it works. I'd like to see him attack the basket more, though, similar to what he did in the playoffs.

Donoghus · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2021, 01:21:56 PM »

Quote from: Roy H. on August 13, 2021, 01:16:58 PM

I suspect that Tatum dribbles too much, in part, because he doesn't completely trust his teammates. I can't really blame him. He can keep the ball, or pass to Marcus Smart or one of last year's bench teammates for a seemingly inevitable brick.

I don't mind Tatum holding the ball as much as some people do. Iso ball is so popular in the NBA because, frankly, it works. I'd like to see him attack the basket more, though, similar to what he did in the playoffs.

I really hope he can shore up his handle. He has a tendency to play too loose with it at times.

Tr1boy · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2021, 01:37:22 PM »

Tatum to me gets tunnel vision. Also he gets a thrill from dribbling and trying to lull his man to sleep/embarrass them

During all of this....all it does is kill the flow of the offense which also ends up affecting the defensive energy

I especially hate the last second shot attempts. Everyone knows he is going to take the shot (usually some form of fade away or long jump shot) contested or not. Everytime..... while open guys like Nesmith and Pritchard become statues with hands out ready to shoot.

SL or not, anyone disagree that Pritchard should not be one of the options for the last shots?

colincb · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2021, 01:45:26 PM »

Quote from: Tr1boy on August 13, 2021, 01:37:22 PM

Tatum to me gets tunnel vision. Also he gets a thrill from dribbling and trying to lull his man to sleep/embarrass them

During all of this....all it does is kill the flow of the offense which also ends up affecting the defensive energy

I especially hate the last second shot attempts. Everyone knows he is going to take the shot (usually some form of fade away or long jump shot) contested or not. Everytime..... while open guys like Nesmith and Pritchard become statues with hands out ready to shoot.

SL or not, anyone disagree that Pritchard should not be one of the options for the last shot?

I disagree. Pritchard should be an option. Smart's one of the worst shooters on the team and should not be an option (unless it's a heave), but too often is.

Celtics2021 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2021, 01:46:54 PM »

Quote from: Roy H. on August 13, 2021, 01:16:58 PM

I suspect that Tatum dribbles too much, in part, because he doesn't completely trust his teammates. I can't really blame him. He can keep the ball, or pass to Marcus Smart or one of last year's bench teammates for a seemingly inevitable brick.

I don't mind Tatum holding the ball as much as some people do. Iso ball is so popular in the NBA because, frankly, it works. I'd like to see him attack the basket more, though, similar to what he did in the playoffs.

Yeah, I remember times where Tatum would dribble for several seconds, get the defense to collapse around him, and pass to an open teammate for a shot (e.g. Semi). Instead of taking the uncontested shot, that guy would take a dribble or two and get it back to Tatum, with maybe 2-3 seconds on the clock. Hard to trust your teammates when they're not even going to take the open shot you got for them.

footey · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2021, 02:02:10 PM »

Quote from: Celtics2021 on August 13, 2021, 01:46:54 PM

Quote from: Roy H. on August 13, 2021, 01:16:58 PM
I suspect that Tatum dribbles too much, in part, because he doesn't completely trust his teammates. I can't really blame him. He can keep the ball, or pass to Marcus Smart or one of last year's bench teammates for a seemingly inevitable brick.

I don't mind Tatum holding the ball as much as some people do. Iso ball is so popular in the NBA because, frankly, it works. I'd like to see him attack the basket more, though, similar to what he did in the playoffs.

Yeah, I remember times where Tatum would dribble for several seconds, get the defense to collapse around him, and pass to an open teammate for a shot (e.g. Semi). Instead of taking the uncontested shot, that guy would take a dribble or two and get it back to Tatum, with maybe 2-3 seconds on the clock. Hard to trust your teammates when they're not even going to take the open shot you got for them.

There is probably some truth to that. But Max' central point is that Tatum lacks the athleticism of Brown to make quick moves and decisions, and his style of play makes ball movement offense more challenging to install, and causes defenses to become more entrenched. I feel if Tatum can continue to improve on his attacks to the hoop, and draw fouls, this can off-set the issues raised by Max.

Vermont Green · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2021, 02:14:24 PM »

I am not exactly sure what Max was trying to say but I guess it is along the lines of Tatum is going to dribble more than Brown because of the differences in their playing style or skill sets. This seems reasonable. Tatum a little more finesse, Brown more athleticism but this is not offering anything in terms of how to fix it.

To me, what Tatum needs to work on is dealing with the double team. He is "the guy" now and teams are going to come at him. Who is around him and what they do when there is a double team (cutting, spacing, etc.) is a factor and his decision making is a factor. Both are needed to "beat the double". First, the more you hang on to the ball, the easier it is for the defense to settle into the double team. Then once you are in the double team, what is the pass to get out of it.

Tatum needs to play it right and the team needs to know how to space and cut to be available for the out of the double pass. Tatum needs to work on this as an individual player and the team needs to work on the overall execution. Neither was great last season in my opinion. Make them pay when they double Tatum. That needs to be the goal. It requires pretty high level execution but that has to be the goal for Tatum and the team. That will take Tatum and the team to another level.

nebist · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2021, 02:33:54 PM »

There is a time and a place for Tatum to iso with dribble combo moves. He's really good at it when he has enough space. So, at times, when he gets a switch onto a big on the high ball screen, it makes sense for him to go into his dribble bag and go to work.

However, as a team, we need to save those moments for when we feel we really need a bucket, or it's an end of quarter situation. If you feature the mismatch/iso throughout a whole game, your offense as a whole gets stagnant, your role players atrophy from lack of use, and you place a huge burden on your star player.

In my opinion, part of the solution is to "move the ball" rather than hunt mismatches. But, another solution that we have went away from is featuring post catches for both Tatum and Brown. If they can catch at 12-15 feet, they can get to the rim in one dribble off a face up attack. That's very hard to double without leaving a wide open 3. I know post play is out of fashion in the modern NBA, but we would greatly benefit from taking advantage of Tatum/Brown's size/strength/athleticism advantage on most wing defenders by getting them catches closer to the block/elbow, especially if Al is there at the 5, and he can space out to the 3 point line.

Kuberski33 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2021, 04:26:50 PM »

This is why I can't jump on the 'Udoka is Our Savior' bandwagon quite yet. The problem with Tatum holding the ball is obvious - and it was obvious to management last season. Solving it will be a lot easier said then done. Brad sure couldn't do it once Hayward was removed from the equation.

One key step is having a pass-first PG - whoever that winds up being. Horford is likely help as well. But his ability to inject a lot more ball movement in the offense may well determine how much success Udoka has as coach.

And while everyone is of the Bradly Beal mindset, a top level PG could wind up being a better direction for this team to pursue a year from now.

DefenseWinsChamps · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2021, 05:30:46 PM »

This forum is without a doubt one of the most critical glass-half-empty nba forums out there.

gouki88 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2021, 05:41:22 PM »

If one of the only criticisms of our young All-NBA calibre wing is that he dribbles too much I think we're in a good spot

Author Topic: Why Tatum Dribbles Too Much (per Danny and Max) (Read 6240 times)

Why Tatum Dribbles Too Much (per Danny and Max)

footey

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Who

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liam

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Donoghus

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Roy H.

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Donoghus

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Tr1boy

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colincb

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Celtics2021

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footey

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nebist

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