Fournier, Celtics "far apart" (Fournier signs with Knicks)

[Birdman]

Probably why they went out and got Richardson..probably knew Fournier would be out of their price range

[ozgod]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court.

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

We've brought in players who were better credentialled than Jayson and Jaylen and ended up playing supporting roles to them, that's just the reality of it. Kemba was brought in to replace Cryrie and ended up being a support player. Sure Hayward got injured but he also ended up being a support player, and that was when the Jays weren't as advanced in their development as they are now. This is their team, I doubt they will bring someone in to supplant either of them. Maybe Ime does things differently to how Brad did, but I have my doubts.

Personally I don't think we have a snowball's chance in hell of attracting Kawhi here...the weather is as cold as Toronto in winter and the city, while Boston is certainly a cosmopolitan city, is not quite Toronto or LA. Or even Miami. Beal is the best chance because of his relationship with Tatum. Maybe LaVine or Randle, but they're not at the same level as those A-listers at the top of the list, which is why we would have a better chance of attracting them, plus the fact that the need to be the main feature might not be as big a deal to them.

[Jvalin]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court.

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

We've brought in players who were better credentialled than Jayson and Jaylen and ended up playing supporting roles to them, that's just the reality of it. Kemba was brought in to replace Cryrie and ended up being a support player. Sure Hayward got injured but he also ended up being a support player, and that was when the Jays weren't as advanced in their development as they are now. This is their team, I doubt they will bring someone in to supplant either of them. Maybe Ime does things differently to how Brad did, but I have my doubts.

Personally I don't think we have a snowball's chance in hell of attracting Kawhi here...the weather is as cold as Toronto in winter and the city, while Boston is certainly a cosmopolitan city, is not quite Toronto or LA. Or even Miami. Beal is the best chance because of his relationship with Tatum. Maybe LaVine or Randle, but they're not at the same level as those A-listers at the top of the list, which is why we would have a better chance of attracting them, plus the fact that the need to be the main feature might not be as big a deal to them.

Not true. Kyrie was our first option. Tatum established himself as a star when Kyrie left for Brooklyn. Kemba was our 2nd option prior to the 2020 All-Star game and his subsequent injury. I bet Beal would be either our first or 2nd option. Both him and Tatum are way more talented offensive players compared to Brown.

[Ogaju]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court (or 2nd best if we sign LaVine).

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

Herein lies this ‘Brown’ problem the Celtics have. He is continually paired with Tatum as if they are equals - they are not. Tatum owns this team, Brown intentionally or not is hindering this reality. He needs to come out and acknowledge Tatum as the Alpha on this team. By the way, Kemba did not subordinate his game to the Jays. Not one bit.

[footey]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court (or 2nd best if we sign LaVine).

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

Herein lies this ‘Brown’ problem the Celtics have. He is continually paired with Tatum as if they are equals - they are not. Tatum owns this team, Brown intentionally or not is hindering this reality. He needs to come out and acknowledge Tatum as the Alpha on this team. By the way, Kemba did not subordinate his game to the Jays. Not one bit.

This is utter nonsense. Brown is nearly as good a player. It was a legitimate debate here last year before Brown had knee soreness as to who was better player.

[Ogaju]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court (or 2nd best if we sign LaVine).

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

Herein lies this ‘Brown’ problem the Celtics have. He is continually paired with Tatum as if they are equals - they are not. Tatum owns this team, Brown intentionally or not is hindering this reality. He needs to come out and acknowledge Tatum as the Alpha on this team. By the way, Kemba did not subordinate his game to the Jays. Not one bit.

This is utter nonsense. Brown is nearly as good a player. It was a legitimate debate here last year before Brown had knee soreness as to who was better player.

Thanks for making my point. It is not so much that I may disagree with you, the mere existence of the debate is the problem.

[footey]

He is a dime a dozen role player.  He is an ok all around player, but does nothing at an even great level, let alone elite.

What percentile would you define “great” as?

19.7 points (in Orlando), .576 eFG%, 41.3% 3PT% on 6.7 attempts,  .598 TS%

All are very good numbers.  Most rank him in the 25th - 35th range in the NBA, so in about the top 6% of players.

Top-6% isn’t “dime a dozen”.  The dude shot 46.3% 3PT% in Boston despite starting 0-for-7 from deep.  After those two games, he shot 50% from distance.

Throw out his post COVID recovery numbers and his percentages even more impressive.

[Jvalin]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court (or 2nd best if we sign LaVine).

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

Herein lies this ‘Brown’ problem the Celtics have. He is continually paired with Tatum as if they are equals - they are not. Tatum owns this team, Brown intentionally or not is hindering this reality. He needs to come out and acknowledge Tatum as the Alpha on this team. By the way, Kemba did not subordinate his game to the Jays. Not one bit.

I think pretty much everybody knows this is Tatum's team, including Brown. The C's run a PnR-heavy offense. Our whole offense is built around Tatum's ability to run the PnR. He's our primary ball handler in the half court. Brown cannot run the PnR. He's clearly our 2nd option. Not to mention, we offered Tatum the max, whereas Brown settled for a bit less than the max.

[rogueandpoet]

Tatum is our fourth quarter guy no doubt. but Jaylen is the third quarter guy that keeps you or gets you back into the game. Kemba did not play as a third option which is why we don't need him. The wise move in this sport is to always keep options open. Fournier contracturally would hamper that greatly. Play Langford and Nesmith enough to showcase their talents then keep or trade when their value has been determined. Smart is the best passer om the team and he will facilitate the Jays properly. So will Horford as a "4". love Rob but we need another big who can protect the rim. I thought Barnes might be the guy but oh well. Short team in the east seems stupid.

[gouki88]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court (or 2nd best if we sign LaVine).

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

Herein lies this ‘Brown’ problem the Celtics have. He is continually paired with Tatum as if they are equals - they are not. Tatum owns this team, Brown intentionally or not is hindering this reality. He needs to come out and acknowledge Tatum as the Alpha on this team. By the way, Kemba did not subordinate his game to the Jays. Not one bit.

This is utter nonsense. Brown is nearly as good a player. It was a legitimate debate here last year before Brown had knee soreness as to who was better player.

The level of play we saw from Tatum from April onward is why that debate ended

[ozgod]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court (or 2nd best if we sign LaVine).

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

Herein lies this ‘Brown’ problem the Celtics have. He is continually paired with Tatum as if they are equals - they are not. Tatum owns this team, Brown intentionally or not is hindering this reality. He needs to come out and acknowledge Tatum as the Alpha on this team. By the way, Kemba did not subordinate his game to the Jays. Not one bit.

I must have a different definition of subordinating then. His touches per game were down last year from the year before even allowing for his injury, and the types of shots he was taking were different from what he had taken in the past. This is all water under the bridge now as Kemba is no longer here, but Chris Forsberg wrote about it just before the All Star break.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-and-kemba-walker-need-figure-something-out-quickly-season-lost

And Kemba himself spoke about the need to change his role to support the Jays more. It's possible he was lying but the data suggests he probably wasn't.

Sure, Walker, Tatum and Brown all played together last season. But this year, the latter two players have taken on much more responsibility and leadership.

Walker sees the jumps that Tatum and Brown have been making in their game, and for that reason, the Celtics starting point guard says he’s the one with the most work to do as he tries to compliment them.

“We’ve only played one game, but we’ll figure it out,” Kemba Walker on Friday said after practice in his media availability.

“We’ll figure it out. We get along very well, we all want to win, at the end of the day we just have to figure it out. That just is what it is. Those two guys are special talents and we need them to be great every night. I’m really the one that has to figure it out. Those two guys, they’re good. I’ll figure it out. We want those two guys to be super aggressive and leading us. I’ll figure it out for sure.”

https://nesn.com/2021/01/kemba-walker-wants-to-compliment-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-in-celtics-lineup/

As for getting Jaylen to come out in public and admit that Jayson is the Alpha? You might be waiting a while Ogaju...I don't think a competitor like Jaylen is wired that way. Just like Westbrook never admitted that KD was better than him, or even Pippen (even now) can't admit that Jordan was better than him.  We all know JT has another level that right now Jaylen hasn't got to yet, but he'll never admit it. And I don't think he should, as a competitor.

[#1P4P]

Fournier is a solid player. I’d pass on signing him to a $20M per/mult-year contract. Once it’s signed, there’s no exiting that contract without surrendering an asset or trading him for a liability, until it’s an expiring contract.

Prior playoff performance has to be taken into account and weighed heavily in committing to Fournier with that size of a contract. He has a career 12-3-2 average in the playoffs with subpar efficiency as a #2-3 option on the Magic (granted it’s been with terrible spacing) and is an average to below average defender.

Tatum and Brown are on the verge of being Top 10 and 20, respectively, and this next move has to be what Igoudala was for the Warriors and Fournier isn’t that. I’d look to package home with multiple 1sts to sign and trade him with a 3rd team that has a player like Joe Ingles, Dillon Brooks, Brogdon, or FVV.

[footey]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court (or 2nd best if we sign LaVine).

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

Herein lies this ‘Brown’ problem the Celtics have. He is continually paired with Tatum as if they are equals - they are not. Tatum owns this team, Brown intentionally or not is hindering this reality. He needs to come out and acknowledge Tatum as the Alpha on this team. By the way, Kemba did not subordinate his game to the Jays. Not one bit.

This is utter nonsense. Brown is nearly as good a player. It was a legitimate debate here last year before Brown had knee soreness as to who was better player.

The level of play we saw from Tatum from April onward is why that debate ended

Tatum for sure excelled toward the end of season. I believe Brown regressed due to a nagging knee, and of course at season's end when he hurt his hand. It was pretty obvious to us that he just didn't have the same lift or explosiveness.  Before the knee issue, it was a lively debate. Don't think the end of the season ended the debate, for these reasons. 

[Ogaju]

Oz….Kenna’s numbers may have declined when he played on the Cs but that was not because he was deferring…lol.

That was simply a product of the Cs ‘take your turn to stop the ball’ offense that he actively participated in.

Regarding Pippen and MJ …lol Pippen can say or think whatever he wants the entire universe knew Jordan owned the Bulls.

[gouki88]

I'd consider $20 million on a 3 year deal, but not for 4 years. If we want to maintain cap flexibility for next year, then the contract we sign him to needs to be easily tradable. If Fournier balls out then 3/60 would absolutely be tradable next year, but if he doesn't then it could be a problem (much more than a 2 year deal would be).

I don't want to see him walk for nothing, but I just think he's asking for too much. 3/$60 or 4/$72 is as high as I'd want to go.

4/72 would also be my highest offer and that is very close to what he's asking. You just have to pursuade Evan how great his role is going to be on a soon to be contender. His shooting ability and overall game is exactly what we need. I'm done with chasing dreams and shadows (Durant, Leonard, Beal). We don't need a third star. The time is now.
Build around Brown and Tatum.

I agree with this. Looking at the top free agents available next year, I doubt we will get any of them. Beal is probably the most likely to want to come here, I don't think the rest have the slightest interest in being a third wheel to the Jays. I think we'll see pigs flying over the Charles before the likes of KD, Harden or Steph come here. Maybe in NBA2k 



The challenge is finding a decent third option who is happy to be a third option. Really good players usually don't like being third options to younger players, as was made evident by Hayward leaving. Kemba was probably an exception in being a veteran star who was willing to subordinate his game to two younger players, but you don't find players with that attitude and willingness to play a smaller role just anywhere.

Who said they'd be ''a third wheel to the Jays''? For instance, if we sign Beal/Kawhi/Butler/LaVine, I'm pretty sure that our 3rd option would be Brown. All these players (+Tatum) are way more versatile shot creators than Brown. I bet we'd be mostly using Brown as a 3+D wing in the half court, although he'd still be our best player in the open court (or 2nd best if we sign LaVine).

I also think that we'd have a decent chance to acquire one of Beal, Kawhi, Butler, LaVine or Randle. Personally speaking, I'd only be interested in Kawhi and Beal.

Herein lies this ‘Brown’ problem the Celtics have. He is continually paired with Tatum as if they are equals - they are not. Tatum owns this team, Brown intentionally or not is hindering this reality. He needs to come out and acknowledge Tatum as the Alpha on this team. By the way, Kemba did not subordinate his game to the Jays. Not one bit.

This is utter nonsense. Brown is nearly as good a player. It was a legitimate debate here last year before Brown had knee soreness as to who was better player.

The level of play we saw from Tatum from April onward is why that debate ended

Tatum for sure excelled toward the end of season. I believe Brown regressed due to a nagging knee, and of course at season's end when he hurt his hand. It was pretty obvious to us that he just didn't have the same lift or explosiveness.  Before the knee issue, it was a lively debate. Don't think the end of the season ended the debate, for these reasons.

I just don't think Brown has Tatum's ability to carry an offence. He can easily put up 30+, we saw that quite a few times. But Tatum put up four 50-point games in the space of, what, 6 weeks? That's simply next level