Idea: Brogdon for Smart, Timelord, Romeo

[gouki88]

Would love Brogdon here, though I think that's too steep of a price for all three. Smart + one other small asset/salary filler would be closer to equitable value I think, with hopefully Timelord not being that piece. Would hurt to lose Smart, but that's a trade that would potentially be worth it to fill out the roster.

That said, not sure why Indy would do it.

And Gouki, I thought Brogdon was a solid, above average defender, at least when he was in Milwaukee? Has he dropped off since going to Indy?

He was that in Milwaukee, but his defence has fallen off a bit in Indiana. Makes some sense given he's not an elite athlete and his offensive role is much bigger in Indy. He's still not bad, and at his size (6'5, 230lbs) he can play on much bigger players than a lot of guards.

I think Smart, Langford, Edwards and a 2nd for Brogdon is decently fair value. I'm not sure how interested Indiana would be in a big given they've got Sabonis, Turner, and Bitadze (who was playing 17MPG over the last two months of the season).

Smart and Langford together greater than Brogdon....imo.  Smart didn't have the best year, so people seems to have forgotten what peak Marcus looks like...it's quite something.
Langford is young and hungry.... and seems to be excellent on defense.  no way I ship him and Marcus for Brogdon at 29.

That's fair, I just think Smart has peaked. He's getting injured more frequently, his shooting and defence have regressed in consecutive seasons and he's an impending free agent who will likely demand a significant chunk of money despite being an incredibly flawed player.

Brogdon is only a year older than Smart, is a significantly better player, and is locked up at below $23m a season while being near All-Star level. Having a perennial All-Star on a sub-max deal (Brown) as well as Brogdon seems like good cap management, especially compared to teams like Milwaukee and Brooklyn who have three massive contracts each.

I think this is all pretty null though - Brad and Ime both seem to love Smart, so I doubt he's going anywhere.

[Celtics2021]

Would love Brogdon here, though I think that's too steep of a price for all three. Smart + one other small asset/salary filler would be closer to equitable value I think, with hopefully Timelord not being that piece. Would hurt to lose Smart, but that's a trade that would potentially be worth it to fill out the roster.

That said, not sure why Indy would do it.

And Gouki, I thought Brogdon was a solid, above average defender, at least when he was in Milwaukee? Has he dropped off since going to Indy?

He was that in Milwaukee, but his defence has fallen off a bit in Indiana. Makes some sense given he's not an elite athlete and his offensive role is much bigger in Indy. He's still not bad, and at his size (6'5, 230lbs) he can play on much bigger players than a lot of guards.

I think Smart, Langford, Edwards and a 2nd for Brogdon is decently fair value. I'm not sure how interested Indiana would be in a big given they've got Sabonis, Turner, and Bitadze (who was playing 17MPG over the last two months of the season).

Smart and Langford together greater than Brogdon....imo.  Smart didn't have the best year, so people seems to have forgotten what peak Marcus looks like...it's quite something.
Langford is young and hungry.... and seems to be excellent on defense.  no way I ship him and Marcus for Brogdon at 29.

That's fair, I just think Smart has peaked. He's getting injured more frequently, his shooting and defence have regressed in consecutive seasons and he's an impending free agent who will likely demand a significant chunk of money despite being an incredibly flawed player.

Brogdon is only a year older than Smart, is a significantly better player, and is locked up at below $23m a season while being near All-Star level. Having a perennial All-Star on a sub-max deal (Brown) as well as Brogdon seems like good cap management, especially compared to teams like Milwaukee and Brooklyn who have three massive contracts each.

I think this is all pretty null though - Brad and Ime both seem to love Smart, so I doubt he's going anywhere.

Brogdon is also even more injury-prone than Marcus.

[gouki88]

Would love Brogdon here, though I think that's too steep of a price for all three. Smart + one other small asset/salary filler would be closer to equitable value I think, with hopefully Timelord not being that piece. Would hurt to lose Smart, but that's a trade that would potentially be worth it to fill out the roster.

That said, not sure why Indy would do it.

And Gouki, I thought Brogdon was a solid, above average defender, at least when he was in Milwaukee? Has he dropped off since going to Indy?

He was that in Milwaukee, but his defence has fallen off a bit in Indiana. Makes some sense given he's not an elite athlete and his offensive role is much bigger in Indy. He's still not bad, and at his size (6'5, 230lbs) he can play on much bigger players than a lot of guards.

I think Smart, Langford, Edwards and a 2nd for Brogdon is decently fair value. I'm not sure how interested Indiana would be in a big given they've got Sabonis, Turner, and Bitadze (who was playing 17MPG over the last two months of the season).

Smart and Langford together greater than Brogdon....imo.  Smart didn't have the best year, so people seems to have forgotten what peak Marcus looks like...it's quite something.
Langford is young and hungry.... and seems to be excellent on defense.  no way I ship him and Marcus for Brogdon at 29.

That's fair, I just think Smart has peaked. He's getting injured more frequently, his shooting and defence have regressed in consecutive seasons and he's an impending free agent who will likely demand a significant chunk of money despite being an incredibly flawed player.

Brogdon is only a year older than Smart, is a significantly better player, and is locked up at below $23m a season while being near All-Star level. Having a perennial All-Star on a sub-max deal (Brown) as well as Brogdon seems like good cap management, especially compared to teams like Milwaukee and Brooklyn who have three massive contracts each.

I think this is all pretty null though - Brad and Ime both seem to love Smart, so I doubt he's going anywhere.

Brogdon is also even more injury-prone than Marcus.

I guess, by the smallest degree Over the last two seasons Brogdon has played in 114 of 149 games (76.5%) and Smart has played in 131 of 168 games (77.9%), so it's a pretty narrow difference - both also have had eird injuries (Brogdon's neck/spine, Smart's hand injuries) as well as soft-tissue problems.

I guess there's a tiny difference, but given Brogdon's superior play I'd be alright with it

[BudweiserCeltic]

I like Brogdon, but giving up too much for an often injured player. Rather keep our guys if that's the return.

[Csfan1984]

I was hoping C's conserve their future cap not trade for mid tier players. Just resign Fournier if you want a nice player at a medium level contract.

[Androslav]

Brogdon doesn't push anyone over the top.
He is a lesser player than Smart.

[PAOBoston]

Brogdon doesn't push anyone over the top.
He is a lesser player than Smart.

Man, people really overrate Marcus Smart so much in this city. Brogdon is better at pretty much everything as a basketball player than Marcus Smart outside of defense (and even after Smarts defense letdown last season, that might be questionable now). Brogdon is a solid defender. Maybe not former all nba but he’s not awful. And considering he literally better at everything else (shooting/rebounding/playmaking/FT shooting/3 pt shooting) and is signed longer term to a good deal, I honestly don’t get the hesitation.

Romeo Langford is a nobody and has zero value.

Timelord is an expiring player who is oft injured and not start Lee quality because he literally can’t play more than 20 mins a game or otherwise his body will shatter. I’m not even positive he starts this year with Horford back either. Also don’t think the Cs want to pay him.

[td450]

No. Why is everyone trying to trade our 3rd and 4th best players ( Rob and Marcus)?  We become much worse defensively.

Agree.  The board is cuckoo.  Throwing away excellent players right and left, slowly depleting our talent base.

We are going to need a starting point guard, and it will deplete our talent base to get him. That will be the art of moving this team forward. We really need a point and a real PF, but how many new problems do you create to get them?

I think the challenge is settling on two complementary starters (point and PF, or alternatively, a third wing that can handle physical play) without gutting our back rotation. Brogdon may be a bit rich, but if you could convert either R Will or Langford into a 1st and still get this done, I'd do it.

I also think if you spend on Brogdon, you have to make do with less on the PF/3rd wing spot. I think Langford is going to fill out to be a more physical wing than Nesmith, so maybe we have to roll with him as that last starter.

[slamtheking]

Brogdon doesn't push anyone over the top.
He is a lesser player than Smart.

Man, people really overrate Marcus Smart so much in this city. Brogdon is better at pretty much everything as a basketball player than Marcus Smart outside of defense (and even after Smarts defense letdown last season, that might be questionable now). Brogdon is a solid defender. Maybe not former all nba but he’s not awful. And considering he literally better at everything else (shooting/rebounding/playmaking/FT shooting/3 pt shooting) and is signed longer term to a good deal, I honestly don’t get the hesitation.

Romeo Langford is a nobody and has zero value.

Timelord is an expiring player who is oft injured and not start Lee quality because he literally can’t play more than 20 mins a game or otherwise his body will shatter. I’m not even positive he starts this year with Horford back either. Also don’t think the Cs want to pay him.

he's definitely not.  you may not think much of him but the kid has shown he can play NBA quality D.  I suspect him attending training camp fully healthy for the first time will improve his game noticeably.   He's not a throw in for a deal to dump him --> that would be Edwards.

[Moranis]

No. Why is everyone trying to trade our 3rd and 4th best players ( Rob and Marcus)?  We become much worse defensively.

Since when are Smart and Williams Boston's 3rd and 4th best players.  Horford is still clearly a better player than either of them (and is significantly more valuable as a player).  I think you could pretty reasonably argue that Fournier is better than both of them as well.  Whereas, Brogdon would pretty clearly be the 3rd best player on the Celtics as he is significantly better than either Smart or Williams, he is signed for longer, and is just a better fit given his good shooter, passing, etc. while still playing + defense. 

Boston should do this trade every single day of the week.  Frankly, they should try to get Turner back as well who Indy might not want to pay anyway

Brogdon, Turner for Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, Langford


Boston

PG - Brogdon, Pritchard, Edwards
SG - Brown, Fournier
SF - Tatum, Nesmith, Ojeleye
PF - Horford, Parker, G. Williams
C - Turner, Brown, Kornet

A few minutes in, you bring in Fournier for Horford or Turner and go a bit smaller, but I like the size to start.

[gouki88]

Brogdon doesn't push anyone over the top.
He is a lesser player than Smart.

This is incredibly incorrect

[wiley]

No. Why is everyone trying to trade our 3rd and 4th best players ( Rob and Marcus)?  We become much worse defensively.

Since when are Smart and Williams Boston's 3rd and 4th best players.  Horford is still clearly a better player than either of them (and is significantly more valuable as a player).  I think you could pretty reasonably argue that Fournier is better than both of them as well.  Whereas, Brogdon would pretty clearly be the 3rd best player on the Celtics as he is significantly better than either Smart or Williams, he is signed for longer, and is just a better fit given his good shooter, passing, etc. while still playing + defense. 

Boston should do this trade every single day of the week.  Frankly, they should try to get Turner back as well who Indy might not want to pay anyway

Brogdon, Turner for Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, Langford


Boston

PG - Brogdon, Pritchard, Edwards
SG - Brown, Fournier
SF - Tatum, Nesmith, Ojeleye
PF - Horford, Parker, G. Williams
C - Turner, Brown, Kornet

A few minutes in, you bring in Fournier for Horford or Turner and go a bit smaller, but I like the size to start.

All I can say is:  let's watch the games this year....if you feel the same next February, let us know...
At least you added Turner (not as horrific as thread title deal).

[footey]

No. Why is everyone trying to trade our 3rd and 4th best players ( Rob and Marcus)?  We become much worse defensively.

Since when are Smart and Williams Boston's 3rd and 4th best players.  Horford is still clearly a better player than either of them (and is significantly more valuable as a player).  I think you could pretty reasonably argue that Fournier is better than both of them as well.  Whereas, Brogdon would pretty clearly be the 3rd best player on the Celtics as he is significantly better than either Smart or Williams, he is signed for longer, and is just a better fit given his good shooter, passing, etc. while still playing + defense. 

Boston should do this trade every single day of the week.  Frankly, they should try to get Turner back as well who Indy might not want to pay anyway

Brogdon, Turner for Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, Langford


Boston

PG - Brogdon, Pritchard, Edwards
SG - Brown, Fournier
SF - Tatum, Nesmith, Ojeleye
PF - Horford, Parker, G. Williams
C - Turner, Brown, Kornet

A few minutes in, you bring in Fournier for Horford or Turner and go a bit smaller, but I like the size to start.

My conclusions are based upon projecting forward the next 2-4 years. I project that Rob Williams will continue to get better. I project the same for Romeo Langford.  Romeo is on the cusp of  being our best multi positional defender.  For Rob, it is statistically supported. For Romeo, it is gut/eyeball test. 

As for Smart, I am fine trading him and future picks for Brogdon, but not giving up contract controlled young guys who are just starting to blossom. That is just dumb every day and twice on Sunday.  Horford is at an age where he should not be expected to play more than 20 -25 minutes a game.  You have no other center besides TT if you make that trade (Moses Brown is a joke), and TT just doesn't blend well with our team.

Fournier is not on the roster, he is a free agent. And I am skeptical we will be re-signing him.  But yes, if he came back, he would be better currently than Smart and Rob. Although a case could be made that if Rob Williams is healthy, he would still be our 3rd best player. 

[wiley]

No. Why is everyone trying to trade our 3rd and 4th best players ( Rob and Marcus)?  We become much worse defensively.

Since when are Smart and Williams Boston's 3rd and 4th best players.  Horford is still clearly a better player than either of them (and is significantly more valuable as a player).  I think you could pretty reasonably argue that Fournier is better than both of them as well.  Whereas, Brogdon would pretty clearly be the 3rd best player on the Celtics as he is significantly better than either Smart or Williams, he is signed for longer, and is just a better fit given his good shooter, passing, etc. while still playing + defense. 

Boston should do this trade every single day of the week.  Frankly, they should try to get Turner back as well who Indy might not want to pay anyway

Brogdon, Turner for Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, Langford


Boston

PG - Brogdon, Pritchard, Edwards
SG - Brown, Fournier
SF - Tatum, Nesmith, Ojeleye
PF - Horford, Parker, G. Williams
C - Turner, Brown, Kornet

A few minutes in, you bring in Fournier for Horford or Turner and go a bit smaller, but I like the size to start.

My conclusions are based upon projecting forward the next 2-4 years. I project that Rob Williams will continue to get better. I project the same for Romeo Langford.  Romeo is on the cusp of  being our best multi positional defender.  For Rob, it is statistically supported. For Romeo, it is gut/eyeball test. 

As for Smart, I am fine trading him and future picks for Brogdon, but not giving up contract controlled young guys who are just starting to blossom. That is just dumb every day and twice on Sunday. Horford is at an age where he should not be expected to play more than 20 -25 minutes a game.  You have no other center besides TT if you make that trade (Moses Brown is a joke), and TT just doesn't blend well with our team.

I didn't want to say that.  So true though...

[td450]

No. Why is everyone trying to trade our 3rd and 4th best players ( Rob and Marcus)?  We become much worse defensively.

Since when are Smart and Williams Boston's 3rd and 4th best players.  Horford is still clearly a better player than either of them (and is significantly more valuable as a player).  I think you could pretty reasonably argue that Fournier is better than both of them as well.  Whereas, Brogdon would pretty clearly be the 3rd best player on the Celtics as he is significantly better than either Smart or Williams, he is signed for longer, and is just a better fit given his good shooter, passing, etc. while still playing + defense. 

Boston should do this trade every single day of the week.  Frankly, they should try to get Turner back as well who Indy might not want to pay anyway

Brogdon, Turner for Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, Langford


Boston

PG - Brogdon, Pritchard, Edwards
SG - Brown, Fournier
SF - Tatum, Nesmith, Ojeleye
PF - Horford, Parker, G. Williams
C - Turner, Brown, Kornet

A few minutes in, you bring in Fournier for Horford or Turner and go a bit smaller, but I like the size to start.

My conclusions are based upon projecting forward the next 2-4 years. I project that Rob Williams will continue to get better. I project the same for Romeo Langford.  Romeo is on the cusp of  being our best multi positional defender.  For Rob, it is statistically supported. For Romeo, it is gut/eyeball test. 

As for Smart, I am fine trading him and future picks for Brogdon, but not giving up contract controlled young guys who are just starting to blossom. That is just dumb every day and twice on Sunday. Horford is at an age where he should not be expected to play more than 20 -25 minutes a game.  You have no other center besides TT if you make that trade (Moses Brown is a joke), and TT just doesn't blend well with our team.

I didn't want to say that.  So true though...

OK, but most posters here would agree we don't have anyone on the roster who works long term as the starting point guard.

At power forward, we likely force our two best players to defend there, and make do with Langford/Nesmith at the two guard. Otherwise, we are left with low cost options that float by like Parker.

Or, we prioritize. I think we do something in between. We trade for one slot, either point or power forward, giving up somebody we don't want to give up, and make do with the other. That's just a guess, but that's what I think will happen this off season.