Woj Bomb: Kemba, 1st Rounder, & '25 2nd Rounder to OKC for Horford, Brown, 2nd

[SparzWizard]

I wonder who Blake spoke to... that gave him the warning not to join/Smart as Brad coaches pet

Has to be Kemba, Grant Williams, or Carsen Edwards. But I bet it was Kemba, hence he was quickly moved with no hesitations or indications lol.

But moving Kemba has always been a good thing anyway.

[Atzar]

I feel like people need to understand that potential isn’t just another word for size or athleticism.  And that goes for NBA people, too, by the way:  Joe Alexander wasn’t picked eighth for his basketball skills.  We all love to dream on the “what if this big, athletic guy just learned to play basketball!” project as if developing NBA-caliber skills is a given as long as you work hard enough. 

Moses Brown is tall, active, can rebound and can dunk.  He has no other basketball skills of note.  His hands are mediocre at best, he’s a poor defender, he has no touch, no range, no footwork, no ball-handling, and no passing - and that’s leaving out the mental side of the game.  This isn’t a case of an actual “high potential” guy like Jaylen, where most of the necessary skills were nascent and just needed refinement.  Moses straight up does not possess these skills at this time.  That is very unlikely to change in an offseason or two.

The odds of him developing enough to become more than a dime-a-dozen hustle guy are very, very low.  There’s still value in a situational energy big man, don’t get me wrong.  I just don’t see this “potential” in him that others do. 

[tazzmaniac]

I feel like people need to understand that potential isn’t just another word for size or athleticism.  And that goes for NBA people, too, by the way:  Joe Alexander wasn’t picked eighth for his basketball skills.  We all love to dream on the “what if this big, athletic guy just learned to play basketball!” project as if developing NBA-caliber skills is a given as long as you work hard enough. 

Moses Brown is tall, active, can rebound and can dunk.  He has no other basketball skills of note.  His hands are mediocre at best, he’s a poor defender, he has no touch, no range, no footwork, no ball-handling, and no passing - and that’s leaving out the mental side of the game.  This isn’t a case of an actual “high potential” guy like Jaylen, where most of the necessary skills were nascent and just needed refinement.  Moses straight up does not possess these skills at this time.  That is very unlikely to change in an offseason or two.

The odds of him developing enough to become more than a dime-a-dozen hustle guy are very, very low.  There’s still value in a situational energy big man, don’t get me wrong.  I just don’t see this “potential” in him that others do.

Good post.  Brown isn't even particularly athletic for an NBA player. 

[Tr1boy]

I feel like people need to understand that potential isn’t just another word for size or athleticism.  And that goes for NBA people, too, by the way:  Joe Alexander wasn’t picked eighth for his basketball skills.  We all love to dream on the “what if this big, athletic guy just learned to play basketball!” project as if developing NBA-caliber skills is a given as long as you work hard enough. 

Moses Brown is tall, active, can rebound and can dunk.  He has no other basketball skills of note.  His hands are mediocre at best, he’s a poor defender, he has no touch, no range, no footwork, no ball-handling, and no passing - and that’s leaving out the mental side of the game.  This isn’t a case of an actual “high potential” guy like Jaylen, where most of the necessary skills were nascent and just needed refinement.  Moses straight up does not possess these skills at this time.  That is very unlikely to change in an offseason or two.

The odds of him developing enough to become more than a dime-a-dozen hustle guy are very, very low.  There’s still value in a situational energy big man, don’t get me wrong.  I just don’t see this “potential” in him that others do.

You basically described Capela, Deandre Jordan, Ben Wallace, Rodmans of the world

Yes or no?

I'm not stating Moses will be as good as any of these players. But description/limitations you listed match

Btw rebounds and block shots is a form of defense. Which Moses has high level potential of

[wdleehi]

I wonder who Blake spoke to... that gave him the warning not to join/Smart as Brad coaches pet

Has to be Kemba, Grant Williams, or Carsen Edwards. But I bet it was Kemba, hence he was quickly moved with no hesitations or indications lol.

But moving Kemba has always been a good thing anyway.

Teague?

[jambr380]

I feel like people need to understand that potential isn’t just another word for size or athleticism.  And that goes for NBA people, too, by the way:  Joe Alexander wasn’t picked eighth for his basketball skills.  We all love to dream on the “what if this big, athletic guy just learned to play basketball!” project as if developing NBA-caliber skills is a given as long as you work hard enough. 

Moses Brown is tall, active, can rebound and can dunk.  He has no other basketball skills of note.  His hands are mediocre at best, he’s a poor defender, he has no touch, no range, no footwork, no ball-handling, and no passing - and that’s leaving out the mental side of the game.  This isn’t a case of an actual “high potential” guy like Jaylen, where most of the necessary skills were nascent and just needed refinement.  Moses straight up does not possess these skills at this time.  That is very unlikely to change in an offseason or two.

The odds of him developing enough to become more than a dime-a-dozen hustle guy are very, very low.  There’s still value in a situational energy big man, don’t get me wrong.  I just don’t see this “potential” in him that others do.

I feel like there is reason to be cautiously optimistic about Moses. I read an OKC fan's opinion on him and, while it was mostly throwing cold water on him as a prospect, he did mention that he was a high energy player with a very upbeat demeanor, who was always genuinely cheering on his teammates. While those qualities (especially the latter) hardly make you an All-Star, it is nice to hear that we aren't getting the next Mark Blount (in terms of personality).

I did see this video which I found interesting. It has your basic highlights, but it also shows a training component. Of course anybody can look good when going up against nobody, but he definitely shows glimpses of an offensive game, as well as ball-handling. And, man, the way he moves is fantastic for a guy his size.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l2SQN0Mhj4

[W8ting2McHale]

I feel like people need to understand that potential isn’t just another word for size or athleticism.  And that goes for NBA people, too, by the way:  Joe Alexander wasn’t picked eighth for his basketball skills.  We all love to dream on the “what if this big, athletic guy just learned to play basketball!” project as if developing NBA-caliber skills is a given as long as you work hard enough. 

Moses Brown is tall, active, can rebound and can dunk.  He has no other basketball skills of note.  His hands are mediocre at best, he’s a poor defender, he has no touch, no range, no footwork, no ball-handling, and no passing - and that’s leaving out the mental side of the game.  This isn’t a case of an actual “high potential” guy like Jaylen, where most of the necessary skills were nascent and just needed refinement.  Moses straight up does not possess these skills at this time.  That is very unlikely to change in an offseason or two.

The odds of him developing enough to become more than a dime-a-dozen hustle guy are very, very low.  There’s still value in a situational energy big man, don’t get me wrong.  I just don’t see this “potential” in him that others do.

You basically described Capela, Deandre Jordan, Ben Wallace, Rodmans of the world

Yes or no?

I'm not stating Moses will be as good as any of these players. But description/limitations you listed match

Btw rebounds and block shots is a form of defense. Which Moses has high level potential of

I was thinking the same. A lot of people seem down him because of his assist to turnover rate and “stone hands.”

Just out of curiosity I looked at Deandre Jordan, and he didn’t have a 1:1 ratio until his 10th year. His first 5 looked a lot like Brown’s.

I didn’t look at the others, or even at Tristan’s but I am not down on him because he dunks the ball instead of passing it. I want my 7 footers dunking.

At worst he’s a Luke Kornet replacement. I for one, want to see what another Brown can do for me, before I pass judgment.

Maybe Kornet gets resigned and we trot out a Mr. Inside/Mr. Outside Twin Towers! (Just kidding)

[LilRip]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

From the article:

According to multiple team sources, there was some dysfunction in the locker room, with the relationship between Stevens and Walker characterized as tension-filled. Sources also suggest that Stevens was also perceived to be harder on Walker than on other top players.

This came in the wake of Gordon Hayward’s departure, after which sources said Hayward told Stevens he needed to establish a stronger voice with players if they were going to win.

At season’s end, multiple sources close to the players said several members of the locker room were welcoming a coaching change, noting Stevens did not appear to hold key players accountable, with complaints he was favoring Smart over others. The common refrain was that the team should hire a person of color with NBA playing experience to coach, something Stevens seems to be addressing with Chauncey Billups, Ime Udoka and Darvin Ham getting second interviews, as first reported by ESPN.

Seems like what we get via the media is way different vs what happens in the locker room. Refreshing to see this take, especially hearing Hayward’s POV too.

Despite what was being said in the media, the situation is what many here suspected and complained about from watching the game and the non-verbal cues (e.g. players not sticking to the game plan or reverting to bad habits, Smart allowed to take multiple bad shots)

I think CBS is more media savvy than we give him credit for but maybe isn’t as endearing behind the scenes (especially to NBA stars). Kyrie is as bananas as they come but maybe there was some sliver of truth to his frustrations. Maybe it was Hayward’s previous relationship with CBS that prevented things from turning truly sour.

[footey]

This was shared on Twitter. Not sure if it is another quote from the Weiss article from the Athletic:

Basically players blaming Steven’s college style offense for creating isolation ball. Bizarre. Not buying.

https://twitter.com/5h3a_/status/1406342705622532099?s=21

[LilRip]

This was shared on Twitter. Not sure if it is another quote from the Weiss article from the Athletic:

Basically players blaming Steven’s college style offense for creating isolation ball. Bizarre. Not buying.

https://twitter.com/5h3a_/status/1406342705622532099?s=21

Not sure if it’s true (especially since we don’t know what really gets talked about behind the scenes) but like many things, it’s not the truth that matters. It’s perceptions.

Maybe Brad as a coach had “worn out” his novelty and his welcome among players. People seemed excited to play for him when he burst onto the scene, especially with IT4’s magical season.

[Rondo9]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

From the article:

According to multiple team sources, there was some dysfunction in the locker room, with the relationship between Stevens and Walker characterized as tension-filled. Sources also suggest that Stevens was also perceived to be harder on Walker than on other top players.

This came in the wake of Gordon Hayward’s departure, after which sources said Hayward told Stevens he needed to establish a stronger voice with players if they were going to win.

At season’s end, multiple sources close to the players said several members of the locker room were welcoming a coaching change, noting Stevens did not appear to hold key players accountable, with complaints he was favoring Smart over others. The common refrain was that the team should hire a person of color with NBA playing experience to coach, something Stevens seems to be addressing with Chauncey Billups, Ime Udoka and Darvin Ham getting second interviews, as first reported by ESPN.

Seems like what we get via the media is way different vs what happens in the locker room. Refreshing to see this take, especially hearing Hayward’s POV too.

Despite what was being said in the media, the situation is what many here suspected and complained about from watching the game and the non-verbal cues (e.g. players not sticking to the game plan or reverting to bad habits, Smart allowed to take multiple bad shots)

And those same people are acting particularly smug about it. Typical Celticsblog.

[LilRip]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

From the article:

According to multiple team sources, there was some dysfunction in the locker room, with the relationship between Stevens and Walker characterized as tension-filled. Sources also suggest that Stevens was also perceived to be harder on Walker than on other top players.

This came in the wake of Gordon Hayward’s departure, after which sources said Hayward told Stevens he needed to establish a stronger voice with players if they were going to win.

At season’s end, multiple sources close to the players said several members of the locker room were welcoming a coaching change, noting Stevens did not appear to hold key players accountable, with complaints he was favoring Smart over others. The common refrain was that the team should hire a person of color with NBA playing experience to coach, something Stevens seems to be addressing with Chauncey Billups, Ime Udoka and Darvin Ham getting second interviews, as first reported by ESPN.

Seems like what we get via the media is way different vs what happens in the locker room. Refreshing to see this take, especially hearing Hayward’s POV too.

Despite what was being said in the media, the situation is what many here suspected and complained about from watching the game and the non-verbal cues (e.g. players not sticking to the game plan or reverting to bad habits, Smart allowed to take multiple bad shots)

And those same people are acting particularly smug about it. Typical Celticsblog.

When the go-to rebuttal of “when did Person X say that? It was never said therefore it can’t be true” disappears, I guess this all there is to say about it

Anyway it’s not like I called this. I, for sure, didn’t see the Smart favoritism thing coming (I figured “take the open shot, regardless who you are” was the gameplan). But suspecting that CBS might’ve been losing the locker room? Sure

Besides, I don’t see how it’s smug to corroborate recent reports with a constantly debated topic. Should we not discuss these things on the forum?

[Rondo9]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

From the article:

According to multiple team sources, there was some dysfunction in the locker room, with the relationship between Stevens and Walker characterized as tension-filled. Sources also suggest that Stevens was also perceived to be harder on Walker than on other top players.

This came in the wake of Gordon Hayward’s departure, after which sources said Hayward told Stevens he needed to establish a stronger voice with players if they were going to win.

At season’s end, multiple sources close to the players said several members of the locker room were welcoming a coaching change, noting Stevens did not appear to hold key players accountable, with complaints he was favoring Smart over others. The common refrain was that the team should hire a person of color with NBA playing experience to coach, something Stevens seems to be addressing with Chauncey Billups, Ime Udoka and Darvin Ham getting second interviews, as first reported by ESPN.

Seems like what we get via the media is way different vs what happens in the locker room. Refreshing to see this take, especially hearing Hayward’s POV too.

Despite what was being said in the media, the situation is what many here suspected and complained about from watching the game and the non-verbal cues (e.g. players not sticking to the game plan or reverting to bad habits, Smart allowed to take multiple bad shots)

And those same people are acting particularly smug about it. Typical Celticsblog.

When the go-to rebuttal of “when did Person X say that? It was never said therefore it can’t be true” disappears, I guess this all there is to say about it

Anyway it’s not like I called this. I, for sure, didn’t see the Smart favoritism thing coming (I figured “take the open shot, regardless who you are” was the gameplan). But suspecting that CBS might’ve been losing the locker room? Sure

Besides, I don’t see how it’s smug to corroborate recent reports with a constantly debated topic. Should we not discuss these things on the forum?

No it’s not you, it’s other people. The kind of people who aren’t interested in discussion just about being right.

[radiohead]

Wasn’t this an issue when Hayward was coming back from injury as well? Brad was giving him all the minutes even though he wasn’t playing well. Now it’s again being mentioned - how Brad favors some guys and don’t hold them accountable. This led to dissent by some players. The new coach has his work cut out. He needs to clearly define each players’ roles and hold them accountable, superstar or not.

[Celtics4ever]

I wonder if it was not Hayward that said it.