Danny Stepping Down / Brad To Lead Front Office / New Coach

[BruceBanner18]

Tony Massarotti just said Ainge recently bought property in Utah. Interesting.

Feel bad for Ainge. He did an otherworldly job rebuilding after the KG era. But the Hayward injury really, really torpedoed the team. And he likely gets credit for at least one more title if not for the league protecting the Lakers and LeBron.

Can he get a job anywhere else? He certainly knows the job. But the SJWs are out for blood ever since Kyrie opened his yap, and he might be a target for canceling now.

Hayward was totally not Danny's fault, but Danny did trade for Irving, which in retrospect was a horrible decision, and continues to be horrible because of Kyrie's smearing of Boston.

What was weird about that trade is early on in his tenure there were stories about how he had a brain doctor on staff who looked at personalities and how players were mentally "built" and worked hard to combine the right kind of players with certain characteristics. 

Whether this brain doctor was still on staff at the time of the trade is beyond the point but needless to say Ainge was into that kind of analysis.  How he decided that Kyrie was a good fit here is really odd.

My guess?  He assumed that there was little risk, because it was extremely unlikely that Kyrie would walk in his first two years.  Worst realistic scenario, we sign him to a five year deal and trade him at some point thereafter.

Oops.

I think Ainge was expecting that Kyrie would enjoy being "the man" on his own team, and then would recruit other players to come join him.  He was banking on the cache that Kyrie had with other players around the league. 


Unfortunately, Ainge was right about Kyrie's ability to recruit others and wrong about Kyrie wanting to do it in Boston.

Agree with part 1. Disagree with part 2. There was an unwritten agreement that Ainge reneged on.

Ainge was right about Kyrie's ability (and desire) to recruit other vets. Kyrie was wrong about Ainge's willingness to follow through. When Kyrie realized Ainge wasn't trading youth for his vet buddies he bolted to a team who would.

That seems a bit revisionist.  Danny was actively trying to land Anthony Davis to put alongside three other max players.

In all honesty it was my opinion at the time as it was happening back then. And I probably mean Kyrie's perception was Ainge wasn't trading aggressively enough for vet stars.

And make no mistake, I think Kyrie is a self centered narcissist. And I think that it's likely Kyrie saw a better option, broke a promise and bolted. But Ainge needed to move more quickly on a follow up move to keep Kyrie happy. And with how Brown and Tatum played as youngsters, plus the two picks Ainge had a lot of options besides AD.

Ainge needed to know who Kyrie was when he made the trade... Great player, great recruiter, flaky af, selfish and high maintenance.

It's like if you have a hot gf who's high maintenance and has lots of options. You need to keep her entertained. If her feet fall asleep, that's on you.

[PhoSita]

Tony Massarotti just said Ainge recently bought property in Utah. Interesting.

Feel bad for Ainge. He did an otherworldly job rebuilding after the KG era. But the Hayward injury really, really torpedoed the team. And he likely gets credit for at least one more title if not for the league protecting the Lakers and LeBron.

Can he get a job anywhere else? He certainly knows the job. But the SJWs are out for blood ever since Kyrie opened his yap, and he might be a target for canceling now.

Hayward was totally not Danny's fault, but Danny did trade for Irving, which in retrospect was a horrible decision, and continues to be horrible because of Kyrie's smearing of Boston.

What was weird about that trade is early on in his tenure there were stories about how he had a brain doctor on staff who looked at personalities and how players were mentally "built" and worked hard to combine the right kind of players with certain characteristics. 

Whether this brain doctor was still on staff at the time of the trade is beyond the point but needless to say Ainge was into that kind of analysis.  How he decided that Kyrie was a good fit here is really odd.

My guess?  He assumed that there was little risk, because it was extremely unlikely that Kyrie would walk in his first two years.  Worst realistic scenario, we sign him to a five year deal and trade him at some point thereafter.

Oops.

I think Ainge was expecting that Kyrie would enjoy being "the man" on his own team, and then would recruit other players to come join him.  He was banking on the cache that Kyrie had with other players around the league. 


Unfortunately, Ainge was right about Kyrie's ability to recruit others and wrong about Kyrie wanting to do it in Boston.

Agree with part 1. Disagree with part 2. There was an unwritten agreement that Ainge reneged on.

Ainge was right about Kyrie's ability (and desire) to recruit other vets. Kyrie was wrong about Ainge's willingness to follow through. When Kyrie realized Ainge wasn't trading youth for his vet buddies he bolted to a team who would.

This is a very interesting take.

interesting how? do we have any specific examples of how Ainge wasn't trading youth for veterans that Kyrie liked?

[Ogaju]

apologies in advance for the long post; hopefully some will find the perspective an interesting pov.

i watched the presser in its entirety, and came away with a completely different opinion of what transpired than what i initially thought.

background: i had the privilege of working in a c-level role with two different fortune 500 companies in my career and i’ve seen this type of organizational change up close several times. my $0.02, the change the c’s just announced was the result of an internal power play, which was won by brad. i’ve seen this play out many times and it usually takes one of two paths: 1) the ugly, ego-driven firefight that is tough to hide internally and externally, and 2) the professional, respectful, but material difference in vision that ends up with one person “winning” and the other agreeing to “retire.”

from what i witnessed, the c’s went through the latter. danny and brad’s awkward body language at the presser, brad’s quick promotion without ownership even considering a search, danny claiming health reasons and a desire to spend time with family (old standards for exiting execs) combined with his non-answer regarding future jobs all point to a decision forced on ownership to pick one of two diverging points of view and philosophies. like i said, i’ve seen this before and it goes down in similar fashion almost every time.

furthermore, the praise danny and brad heaped on each other during the presser was very awkward and came across as two guys who are both pros and will say the appropriate things at the right moment. it wasn’t completely genuine and was a bit forced. for a guy who allegedly made his own decision to retire to spend more time with family, danny didn’t seem very happy at the presser. this was a gentlemanly separation at the request of ownership. “here’s your exit package, danny, which is contingent on you playing the company guy bit on your way out.” danny gets a nice cash reward and the ability to spin it as his decision; the c’s get a fluid transition and little-to-no bad PR.

also, i’ve worked directly with guys like brad who seem to be very low key and demure but are surprisingly very savvy politically. it makes sense we heard rumors and read articles earlier in the season that brad would assume a greater role in personnel going forward. he was not happy with danny’s rosters and made it clear to wyc that he needed more control. as the team struggled to perform, ownership was forced to become more involved in these diverging philosophies and ultimately pick a side. what was announced today was the culmination of this battle being won by brad, which makes sense. ownership was forced to pick a horse for the long term and brad came out on top. i think the “aw shucks” indiana country boy schtick purposefully hides a very driven, savvy, ambitious personality. he didn’t get to where he is by chance. honestly, this viewpoint makes me even more confident in his ability to run basketball operations for the c’s.

like i said, simply my opinion based on what i’ve witnessed firsthand. granted, i could be completely wrong but all the signs do seem to point to a professional power play that didn’t go danny’s way.

It also explains why Cs ignored Kyrie’s antics....they had bigger plans.

[Ogaju]

Tony Massarotti just said Ainge recently bought property in Utah. Interesting.

Feel bad for Ainge. He did an otherworldly job rebuilding after the KG era. But the Hayward injury really, really torpedoed the team. And he likely gets credit for at least one more title if not for the league protecting the Lakers and LeBron.

Can he get a job anywhere else? He certainly knows the job. But the SJWs are out for blood ever since Kyrie opened his yap, and he might be a target for canceling now.

Hayward was totally not Danny's fault, but Danny did trade for Irving, which in retrospect was a horrible decision, and continues to be horrible because of Kyrie's smearing of Boston.

What was weird about that trade is early on in his tenure there were stories about how he had a brain doctor on staff who looked at personalities and how players were mentally "built" and worked hard to combine the right kind of players with certain characteristics. 

Whether this brain doctor was still on staff at the time of the trade is beyond the point but needless to say Ainge was into that kind of analysis.  How he decided that Kyrie was a good fit here is really odd.

My guess?  He assumed that there was little risk, because it was extremely unlikely that Kyrie would walk in his first two years.  Worst realistic scenario, we sign him to a five year deal and trade him at some point thereafter.

Oops.

I think Ainge was expecting that Kyrie would enjoy being "the man" on his own team, and then would recruit other players to come join him.  He was banking on the cache that Kyrie had with other players around the league. 


Unfortunately, Ainge was right about Kyrie's ability to recruit others and wrong about Kyrie wanting to do it in Boston.

Agree with part 1. Disagree with part 2. There was an unwritten agreement that Ainge reneged on.

Ainge was right about Kyrie's ability (and desire) to recruit other vets. Kyrie was wrong about Ainge's willingness to follow through. When Kyrie realized Ainge wasn't trading youth for his vet buddies he bolted to a team who would.

This is a very interesting take.

interesting how? do we have any specific examples of how Ainge wasn't trading youth for veterans that Kyrie liked?

Yes...he did not want to let go of his draft picks.

[PhoSita]

interesting how? do we have any specific examples of how Ainge wasn't trading youth for veterans that Kyrie liked?

Yes...he did not want to let go of his draft picks.

provide me an example of a player who you think Ainge could have gotten with those vaunted and oh-so-valuable draft picks while Kyrie was on the team and still engaged.


from my point of view Kyrie was checked out as soon as it became clear that this was going to be Tatum's team.

The Celtics were never going to make the franchise entirely about Kyrie.

[bdm860]

apologies in advance for the long post; hopefully some will find the perspective an interesting pov.

i watched the presser in its entirety, and came away with a completely different opinion of what transpired than what i initially thought.

background: i had the privilege of working in a c-level role with two different fortune 500 companies in my career and i’ve seen this type of organizational change up close several times. my $0.02, the change the c’s just announced was the result of an internal power play, which was won by brad. i’ve seen this play out many times and it usually takes one of two paths: 1) the ugly, ego-driven firefight that is tough to hide internally and externally, and 2) the professional, respectful, but material difference in vision that ends up with one person “winning” and the other agreeing to “retire.”

from what i witnessed, the c’s went through the latter. danny and brad’s awkward body language at the presser, brad’s quick promotion without ownership even considering a search, danny claiming health reasons and a desire to spend time with family (old standards for exiting execs) combined with his non-answer regarding future jobs all point to a decision forced on ownership to pick one of two diverging points of view and philosophies. like i said, i’ve seen this before and it goes down in similar fashion almost every time.

furthermore, the praise danny and brad heaped on each other during the presser was very awkward and came across as two guys who are both pros and will say the appropriate things at the right moment. it wasn’t completely genuine and was a bit forced. for a guy who allegedly made his own decision to retire to spend more time with family, danny didn’t seem very happy at the presser. this was a gentlemanly separation at the request of ownership. “here’s your exit package, danny, which is contingent on you playing the company guy bit on your way out.” danny gets a nice cash reward and the ability to spin it as his decision; the c’s get a fluid transition and little-to-no bad PR.

also, i’ve worked directly with guys like brad who seem to be very low key and demure but are surprisingly very savvy politically. it makes sense we heard rumors and read articles earlier in the season that brad would assume a greater role in personnel going forward. he was not happy with danny’s rosters and made it clear to wyc that he needed more control. as the team struggled to perform, ownership was forced to become more involved in these diverging philosophies and ultimately pick a side. what was announced today was the culmination of this battle being won by brad, which makes sense. ownership was forced to pick a horse for the long term and brad came out on top. i think the “aw shucks” indiana country boy schtick purposefully hides a very driven, savvy, ambitious personality. he didn’t get to where he is by chance. honestly, this viewpoint makes me even more confident in his ability to run basketball operations for the c’s.

like i said, simply my opinion based on what i’ve witnessed firsthand. granted, i could be completely wrong but all the signs do seem to point to a professional power play that didn’t go danny’s way.

appreciate this perspective, tp.

from the "Brad as Machiavelli" angle, the story mid-season about Indiana going hard after Brad could be seen as something Brad and his camp allowed to become a bit of a story in order to put pressure on ownership.

If Brad's camp did leak the Indiana story, the formerly tight lipped Celtics might start to use the media to make moves like other teams do.  Will be interesting to see if the C's (or the players they are interested in) get more mentions by Woj, Shams, etc.


Very interesting (and believable) take by Mahk E Mahk.

[Mahk E Mahk]

apologies in advance for the long post; hopefully some will find the perspective an interesting pov.

i watched the presser in its entirety, and came away with a completely different opinion of what transpired than what i initially thought.

background: i had the privilege of working in a c-level role with two different fortune 500 companies in my career and i’ve seen this type of organizational change up close several times. my $0.02, the change the c’s just announced was the result of an internal power play, which was won by brad. i’ve seen this play out many times and it usually takes one of two paths: 1) the ugly, ego-driven firefight that is tough to hide internally and externally, and 2) the professional, respectful, but material difference in vision that ends up with one person “winning” and the other agreeing to “retire.”

from what i witnessed, the c’s went through the latter. danny and brad’s awkward body language at the presser, brad’s quick promotion without ownership even considering a search, danny claiming health reasons and a desire to spend time with family (old standards for exiting execs) combined with his non-answer regarding future jobs all point to a decision forced on ownership to pick one of two diverging points of view and philosophies. like i said, i’ve seen this before and it goes down in similar fashion almost every time.

furthermore, the praise danny and brad heaped on each other during the presser was very awkward and came across as two guys who are both pros and will say the appropriate things at the right moment. it wasn’t completely genuine and was a bit forced. for a guy who allegedly made his own decision to retire to spend more time with family, danny didn’t seem very happy at the presser. this was a gentlemanly separation at the request of ownership. “here’s your exit package, danny, which is contingent on you playing the company guy bit on your way out.” danny gets a nice cash reward and the ability to spin it as his decision; the c’s get a fluid transition and little-to-no bad PR.

also, i’ve worked directly with guys like brad who seem to be very low key and demure but are surprisingly very savvy politically. it makes sense we heard rumors and read articles earlier in the season that brad would assume a greater role in personnel going forward. he was not happy with danny’s rosters and made it clear to wyc that he needed more control. as the team struggled to perform, ownership was forced to become more involved in these diverging philosophies and ultimately pick a side. what was announced today was the culmination of this battle being won by brad, which makes sense. ownership was forced to pick a horse for the long term and brad came out on top. i think the “aw shucks” indiana country boy schtick purposefully hides a very driven, savvy, ambitious personality. he didn’t get to where he is by chance. honestly, this viewpoint makes me even more confident in his ability to run basketball operations for the c’s.

like i said, simply my opinion based on what i’ve witnessed firsthand. granted, i could be completely wrong but all the signs do seem to point to a professional power play that didn’t go danny’s way.

appreciate this perspective, tp.

from the "Brad as Machiavelli" angle, the story mid-season about Indiana going hard after Brad could be seen as something Brad and his camp allowed to become a bit of a story in order to put pressure on ownership.

great point.

fyi, i’m not going full blown machiavellian brad but if i did, i could see brad’s camp making first contact with indiana in order to force wyc’s hand. however, i do see brad as far savvier than he comes across, and it’s purposeful. these characteristics could make him an excellent pres/gm.

[Celtics2021]

interesting how? do we have any specific examples of how Ainge wasn't trading youth for veterans that Kyrie liked?

Yes...he did not want to let go of his draft picks.

provide me an example of a player who you think Ainge could have gotten with those vaunted and oh-so-valuable draft picks while Kyrie was on the team and still engaged.


from my point of view Kyrie was checked out as soon as it became clear that this was going to be Tatum's team.

The Celtics were never going to make the franchise entirely about Kyrie.

I’m not sure exactly when Kyrie checked out.  That said, it is clear that Ainge had an opportunity to acquire Kawhi after the 2018 season, although at what cost is unknown (Jaylen was always the rumored player, but who knows what was discussed).  The price was too high given Kawhi’s almost assured leaving for LA.  The Raptors got a title out of it, so obviously it was the right move for them.

[gift]

apologies in advance for the long post; hopefully some will find the perspective an interesting pov.

i watched the presser in its entirety, and came away with a completely different opinion of what transpired than what i initially thought.

background: i had the privilege of working in a c-level role with two different fortune 500 companies in my career and i’ve seen this type of organizational change up close several times. my $0.02, the change the c’s just announced was the result of an internal power play, which was won by brad. i’ve seen this play out many times and it usually takes one of two paths: 1) the ugly, ego-driven firefight that is tough to hide internally and externally, and 2) the professional, respectful, but material difference in vision that ends up with one person “winning” and the other agreeing to “retire.”

from what i witnessed, the c’s went through the latter. danny and brad’s awkward body language at the presser, brad’s quick promotion without ownership even considering a search, danny claiming health reasons and a desire to spend time with family (old standards for exiting execs) combined with his non-answer regarding future jobs all point to a decision forced on ownership to pick one of two diverging points of view and philosophies. like i said, i’ve seen this before and it goes down in similar fashion almost every time.

furthermore, the praise danny and brad heaped on each other during the presser was very awkward and came across as two guys who are both pros and will say the appropriate things at the right moment. it wasn’t completely genuine and was a bit forced. for a guy who allegedly made his own decision to retire to spend more time with family, danny didn’t seem very happy at the presser. this was a gentlemanly separation at the request of ownership. “here’s your exit package, danny, which is contingent on you playing the company guy bit on your way out.” danny gets a nice cash reward and the ability to spin it as his decision; the c’s get a fluid transition and little-to-no bad PR.

also, i’ve worked directly with guys like brad who seem to be very low key and demure but are surprisingly very savvy politically. it makes sense we heard rumors and read articles earlier in the season that brad would assume a greater role in personnel going forward. he was not happy with danny’s rosters and made it clear to wyc that he needed more control. as the team struggled to perform, ownership was forced to become more involved in these diverging philosophies and ultimately pick a side. what was announced today was the culmination of this battle being won by brad, which makes sense. ownership was forced to pick a horse for the long term and brad came out on top. i think the “aw shucks” indiana country boy schtick purposefully hides a very driven, savvy, ambitious personality. he didn’t get to where he is by chance. honestly, this viewpoint makes me even more confident in his ability to run basketball operations for the c’s.

like i said, simply my opinion based on what i’ve witnessed firsthand. granted, i could be completely wrong but all the signs do seem to point to a professional power play that didn’t go danny’s way.

appreciate this perspective, tp.

from the "Brad as Machiavelli" angle, the story mid-season about Indiana going hard after Brad could be seen as something Brad and his camp allowed to become a bit of a story in order to put pressure on ownership.

great point.

fyi, i’m not going full blown machiavellian brad but if i did, i could see brad’s camp making first contact with indiana in order to force wyc’s hand. however, i do see brad as far savvier than he comes across, and it’s purposeful. these characteristics could make him an excellent pres/gm.

at the very least, brad is more ambitious and calculating than his brand indicates.

[Mahk E Mahk]

apologies in advance for the long post; hopefully some will find the perspective an interesting pov.

i watched the presser in its entirety, and came away with a completely different opinion of what transpired than what i initially thought.

background: i had the privilege of working in a c-level role with two different fortune 500 companies in my career and i’ve seen this type of organizational change up close several times. my $0.02, the change the c’s just announced was the result of an internal power play, which was won by brad. i’ve seen this play out many times and it usually takes one of two paths: 1) the ugly, ego-driven firefight that is tough to hide internally and externally, and 2) the professional, respectful, but material difference in vision that ends up with one person “winning” and the other agreeing to “retire.”

from what i witnessed, the c’s went through the latter. danny and brad’s awkward body language at the presser, brad’s quick promotion without ownership even considering a search, danny claiming health reasons and a desire to spend time with family (old standards for exiting execs) combined with his non-answer regarding future jobs all point to a decision forced on ownership to pick one of two diverging points of view and philosophies. like i said, i’ve seen this before and it goes down in similar fashion almost every time.

furthermore, the praise danny and brad heaped on each other during the presser was very awkward and came across as two guys who are both pros and will say the appropriate things at the right moment. it wasn’t completely genuine and was a bit forced. for a guy who allegedly made his own decision to retire to spend more time with family, danny didn’t seem very happy at the presser. this was a gentlemanly separation at the request of ownership. “here’s your exit package, danny, which is contingent on you playing the company guy bit on your way out.” danny gets a nice cash reward and the ability to spin it as his decision; the c’s get a fluid transition and little-to-no bad PR.

also, i’ve worked directly with guys like brad who seem to be very low key and demure but are surprisingly very savvy politically. it makes sense we heard rumors and read articles earlier in the season that brad would assume a greater role in personnel going forward. he was not happy with danny’s rosters and made it clear to wyc that he needed more control. as the team struggled to perform, ownership was forced to become more involved in these diverging philosophies and ultimately pick a side. what was announced today was the culmination of this battle being won by brad, which makes sense. ownership was forced to pick a horse for the long term and brad came out on top. i think the “aw shucks” indiana country boy schtick purposefully hides a very driven, savvy, ambitious personality. he didn’t get to where he is by chance. honestly, this viewpoint makes me even more confident in his ability to run basketball operations for the c’s.

like i said, simply my opinion based on what i’ve witnessed firsthand. granted, i could be completely wrong but all the signs do seem to point to a professional power play that didn’t go danny’s way.

appreciate this perspective, tp.

from the "Brad as Machiavelli" angle, the story mid-season about Indiana going hard after Brad could be seen as something Brad and his camp allowed to become a bit of a story in order to put pressure on ownership.

great point.

fyi, i’m not going full blown machiavellian brad but if i did, i could see brad’s camp making first contact with indiana in order to force wyc’s hand. however, i do see brad as far savvier than he comes across, and it’s purposeful. these characteristics could make him an excellent pres/gm.

at the very least, brad is more ambitious and calculating than his brand indicates.

well said. much pithier than my bloviating. 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Celtics Press conference from today. Wyc, Steve, Danny, Brad.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=41bphlCRwng

Reporter asks Brad if he considered being both the coach and GM. Danny responds, “I told him a few days ago that if he doesn’t find someone good he will be doing both.”   

I’m going to miss Danny. I will always be grateful for the 2008 championship team that he put together and for him making the right calls on Jaylen and Jayson.

That's how I feel too. Not to say that the next GM can't or won't do better, but Ainge did some great stuff, especially getting KG and Ray.

[BruceBanner18]

interesting how? do we have any specific examples of how Ainge wasn't trading youth for veterans that Kyrie liked?

Yes...he did not want to let go of his draft picks.

provide me an example of a player who you think Ainge could have gotten with those vaunted and oh-so-valuable draft picks while Kyrie was on the team and still engaged.


from my point of view Kyrie was checked out as soon as it became clear that this was going to be Tatum's team.

The Celtics were never going to make the franchise entirely about Kyrie.

If your last statement is true, then what a stupid trade to make in the first place.

And, it doesn't matter what I think, or you think was a good trade match. It only matters what Kyrie thought and expected...not if it was possible.

[Tr1boy]

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/celtics-chaos-emergency-pod-bill-simmons-jackie-macmullan/id1433966613?i=1000523965742

[BringToughnessBack]

I just logged on and saw this and thought, here we go again with lets fire the GM and coach threads and find it to be true. Wow, my initial gut is we are about to take a step backwards. I hope I am wrong.

Also guessing a minority coach is coming soon. I don’t  suppose KG would want to coach? I would live to see his toughness but guessing his perfectionist mentality would be a tough fit in young players. I bet Rondo would be a great coach as well.

[gouki88]

Wow, I picked the wrong night to go to sleep early!!

Really digging the ‘Brad is a calculated genius’ angle, think that’s fun.

In all seriousness, this is crazy.