The biggest problem for the current Celtics team is lack of an elite playmaker

[RJ87]

Lonzo's name has been floating around now for a bit.

I like Kemba. I'm not in the camp that thinks he has to go, I think he's been terrific the second half of this season. But if New Orleans doesn't want to keep him and there's a way for the Celtics to get into a s&t for Lonzo, I think I would do that deal.

With Lonzo and Timelord on the floor together, the ball could really whip around and be great on the defensive end as well.

I am against trading away Kemba if another bad contract has to come back or if it costs other assets just to clear him.   He has value on the court.

100%. If New Orleans isn't sold on Lonzo, though, and he could be had in a s&t at a number significantly lower than Kemba's that doesn't seem like a bad contract.

Do you feel replacing Kemba with Lonzo pushes us over the top towards contention? Because that's the only way I see Danny willingly doing a s&t that would trigger the hard cap.

I don't think Lonzo is that guy.

[BruceBanner18]

No indication he's available but I would target Domas Sabonis. Great passer, great feel, shooting is improving, play him in the high post.

[Moranis]

Lonzo's name has been floating around now for a bit.

I like Kemba. I'm not in the camp that thinks he has to go, I think he's been terrific the second half of this season. But if New Orleans doesn't want to keep him and there's a way for the Celtics to get into a s&t for Lonzo, I think I would do that deal.

With Lonzo and Timelord on the floor together, the ball could really whip around and be great on the defensive end as well.

I am against trading away Kemba if another bad contract has to come back or if it costs other assets just to clear him.   He has value on the court.

100%. If New Orleans isn't sold on Lonzo, though, and he could be had in a s&t at a number significantly lower than Kemba's that doesn't seem like a bad contract.

Do you feel replacing Kemba with Lonzo pushes us over the top towards contention? Because that's the only way I see Danny willingly doing a s&t that would trigger the hard cap.

I don't think Lonzo is that guy.

even dumping Walker I don't think gets you enough room to do a sign and trade.

[PhoSita]

Speaking directly to the original premise of the thread:

I think the easy case to make is that apart from health / COVID, the biggest problem for the 2021 Celtics was the fact that they went from the 4th best defense in the league to bottom 10.

Fix the defense and the Celtics will go back to looking like a squad just a cut below the top contenders, instead of first round road kill.

[Goldstar88]

Speaking directly to the original premise of the thread:

I think the easy case to make is that apart from health / COVID, the biggest problem for the 2021 Celtics was the fact that they went from the 4th best defense in the league to bottom 10.

Fix the defense and the Celtics will go back to looking like a squad just a cut below the top contenders, instead of first round road kill.

Agreed. Starting with arguably the worst defensive player on the roster, Kemba. All opposing teams have to do is use the Spolestra strategy and go at Walker every time on offense which almost guarantees a basket or a double team resulting in a wide open 3. It was painful to watch...

[PhoSita]

Speaking directly to the original premise of the thread:

I think the easy case to make is that apart from health / COVID, the biggest problem for the 2021 Celtics was the fact that they went from the 4th best defense in the league to bottom 10.

Fix the defense and the Celtics will go back to looking like a squad just a cut below the top contenders, instead of first round road kill.

Agreed. Starting with arguably the worst defensive player on the roster, Kemba. All opposing teams have to do is use the Spolestra strategy and go at Walker every time on offense which almost guarantees a basket or a double team resulting in a wide open 3. It was painful to watch...

I'd try to see whether there's any reasonable way to acquire Mason Plumlee from Detroit.  Maybe send out Thompson and attach a pick or something.  Plumlee is a good defender and also has some excellent passing skills for a big.  Addresses two needs.  On top of that Plumlee has averaged 74 games played / 22 mpg in an 8 year career, so he offers durability as well.

Plumlee / Timelord as a center tandem sounds pretty solid to me.


Other guys I think the team ought to target via trade:

Maxi Kleber
Kyle Anderson
Justin Holiday

[Celtics4ever]

Our bench is now 28th  in bench scoring

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/21/7/diffeff/1-1

This is just as big as a problem as Covid was or is for the team.

[Vermont Green]

Speaking directly to the original premise of the thread:

I think the easy case to make is that apart from health / COVID, the biggest problem for the 2021 Celtics was the fact that they went from the 4th best defense in the league to bottom 10.

Fix the defense and the Celtics will go back to looking like a squad just a cut below the top contenders, instead of first round road kill.

Yes, exactly, but do you really blame this on Kemba who played only 43 of 72 games and actually played fairly well on defense?  Or maybe you aren't blaming Kemba, I am not sure.

What is your solution for improving the defense?

[RJ87]

Speaking directly to the original premise of the thread:

I think the easy case to make is that apart from health / COVID, the biggest problem for the 2021 Celtics was the fact that they went from the 4th best defense in the league to bottom 10.

Fix the defense and the Celtics will go back to looking like a squad just a cut below the top contenders, instead of first round road kill.

I think our roster is just fundamentally flawed in composition. Even if we were healthier, I think we would've have been underwhelming based on the high preseason predictions that were thrown around here before. I was listening to Woj and Zach Lowe on a podcast recently and they pointed out just how young our team is and how teams this young don't typically win at a high level. I believe we're the youngest or 2nd youngest team in the playoffs behind the Knicks. But even with the Knicks, they have quality vets (Derrick Rose, Reggie Bullock, Alec Burks, Nerlens Noel) that impact the rotation because they know their roles clearly and are stars in those roles.

[PhoSita]

Speaking directly to the original premise of the thread:

I think the easy case to make is that apart from health / COVID, the biggest problem for the 2021 Celtics was the fact that they went from the 4th best defense in the league to bottom 10.

Fix the defense and the Celtics will go back to looking like a squad just a cut below the top contenders, instead of first round road kill.

Yes, exactly, but do you really blame this on Kemba who played only 43 of 72 games and actually played fairly well on defense?  Or maybe you aren't blaming Kemba, I am not sure.

What is your solution for improving the defense?

I don't think you can blame Kemba since the Celtics were the 4th ranked defense last season with him as the starter the whole season.  We also saw the Celts play good defense in the playoffs with Kemba playing plenty of minutes.

Kemba isn't part of the solution on defense, but he isn't the problem.

I don't personally have a solution to the defense.  The personnel overall didn't change that drastically yet they went from an elite defensive squad to a bad one.  How do you explain that other than overall focus and discipline?  The biggest thing with the defense is that last year they were really good at defending the 3 point shot.  This year they gave up a very high percentage on threes.  That seems like a combination of effort and discipline on rotations / close-outs.

[Big333223]

Lonzo's name has been floating around now for a bit.

I like Kemba. I'm not in the camp that thinks he has to go, I think he's been terrific the second half of this season. But if New Orleans doesn't want to keep him and there's a way for the Celtics to get into a s&t for Lonzo, I think I would do that deal.

With Lonzo and Timelord on the floor together, the ball could really whip around and be great on the defensive end as well.

I am against trading away Kemba if another bad contract has to come back or if it costs other assets just to clear him.   He has value on the court.

100%. If New Orleans isn't sold on Lonzo, though, and he could be had in a s&t at a number significantly lower than Kemba's that doesn't seem like a bad contract.

Do you feel replacing Kemba with Lonzo pushes us over the top towards contention? Because that's the only way I see Danny willingly doing a s&t that would trigger the hard cap.

I don't think Lonzo is that guy.

Maybe. It might be more about fit than talent. Lonzo is big, a terrific defender, and a passer who doesn't let the ball sit in his hands for very long. It could be that just swapping him and Kemba makes the offense hum in the way we want while also upgrading the weakest link on defense.

[Vermont Green]

Our bench is now 28th  in bench scoring

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/21/7/diffeff/1-1

This is just as big as a problem as Covid was or is for the team.

Fournier was supposed to be the fix for that problem but then Brown got hurt and Fournier has to start.  I agree that overall, for the season, our bench was weak but this is not unrelated to injuries and COVID absences.

For the first half of the season, when we were starting Theis and Thompson, Kemba was hurt forcing Smart to be a starter instead of being part of the bench.  Now Brown is hurt and forcing Fournier to be a starter.  It all trickles down.  Too many minutes for Grant, Ojeleye, Nesmith, Pritchard (who did well but still a rookie) as part of our bench.

[Goldstar88]

Speaking directly to the original premise of the thread:

I think the easy case to make is that apart from health / COVID, the biggest problem for the 2021 Celtics was the fact that they went from the 4th best defense in the league to bottom 10.

Fix the defense and the Celtics will go back to looking like a squad just a cut below the top contenders, instead of first round road kill.

I think our roster is just fundamentally flawed in composition. Even if we were healthier, I think we would've have been underwhelming based on the high preseason predictions that were thrown around here before. I was listening to Woj and Zach Lowe on a podcast recently and they pointed out just how young our team is and how teams this young don't typically win at a high level. I believe we're the youngest or 2nd youngest team in the playoffs behind the Knicks. But even with the Knicks, they have quality vets (Derrick Rose, Reggie Bullock, Alec Burks, Nerlens Noel) that impact the rotation because they know their roles clearly and are stars in those roles.

I think Memphis is the youngest team in the playoffs and they are playing very well. They have a well balanced team and a deep bench. C’s roster is just poorly constructed.

[PhoSita]

I think our roster is just fundamentally flawed in composition. Even if we were healthier, I think we would've have been underwhelming based on the high preseason predictions that were thrown around here before.

I agree that the bench needs more vets.  But re: the defense, what is so different about the roster composition between last season and this one?  The big change was losing Hayward.  Hayward was a good defender; was he really the lynchpin of the Celts' elite defense?  I'm skeptical about that.  Especially since they remained very good on that end in the playoffs without Gordon.

At least on paper, exchanging Wanamaker and Kanter for Teague and Thompson doesn't seem like it ought to have hurt the defense, either. 


Defense even more than offense is a team effort.  I do think there is something to the idea that the more young players you add into that equation the harder it is to keep the whole thing from falling apart.  The Celtics probably do have more than a critical mass of unseasoned / rookie contract players getting minutes, especially in this season when players were constantly missing time.


I expect some significant changes in the middle part of the roster as well as the back end.  I will be surprised if Kemba, Smart, and Thompson are still on the team next season.  But even if all of those guys return, I think they can get back to elite defense if they have better health and they add a couple of disciplined vets that bring toughness and energy on the defensive end.  The Celts really miss that kind of energy they used to get from guys like Jae Crowder / Amir Johnson / Marcus Morris / Aron Baynes etc.

[RJ87]

I think our roster is just fundamentally flawed in composition. Even if we were healthier, I think we would've have been underwhelming based on the high preseason predictions that were thrown around here before.

I agree that the bench needs more vets.  But re: the defense, what is so different about the roster composition between last season and this one?  The big change was losing Hayward.  Hayward was a good defender; was he really the lynchpin of the Celts' elite defense?  I'm skeptical about that.  Especially since they remained very good on that end in the playoffs without Gordon.

Hayward might not have been the lynchpin, but him leaving had more a nuanced ripple effect on the team's defense in the sense that it placed a lot more offensive burden on the Jays, which was only enhanced by Walker being out of the lineup to start the season. Expecting those two guys to pretty much be everything for the team offensively and still be able to play at a high level on the other end is a tall order.

Funny enough you mention the bubble, you could see the wear and tear getting to the team towards the end of the playoffs last year.