It’s time to back off of Jayson Tatum

[Vermont Green]

Agree 100% with the OP.  It is surprising to me that with as much as he has shown at age 23, that the local fans and broader media seem to want so much more.

I heard them talking on the local pregame show about how he needs to hold players accountable, implying that it is somehow his fault when teammates underperform in some way.  I think that is nonsense.  He needs to hold himself accountable first and foremost (and I think he does).  The other players will follow.

I hate to even see him being forced to answer questions about his "leadership".  I hope Danny and Brad and some of the Vets are talking to him and telling him to ignore all of this.  Being a leader is not something you can try to do or that you can work on in the off season.  All he needs to do is just keep doing what he is doing.

[ozgod]

Agree 100% with the OP.  It is surprising to me that with as much as he has shown at age 23, that the local fans and broader media seem to want so much more.

I heard them talking on the local pregame show about how he needs to hold players accountable, implying that it is somehow his fault when teammates underperform in some way.  I think that is nonsense.  He needs to hold himself accountable first and foremost (and I think he does).  The other players will follow.

I hate to even see him being forced to answer questions about his "leadership". I hope Danny and Brad and some of the Vets are talking to him and telling him to ignore all of this.  Being a leader is not something you can try to do or that you can work on in the off season.  All he needs to do is just keep doing what he is doing.

Here's what he had to say to all the critics about his "leadership" after the game.

“I’ve seen a lot of people necessarily want me to lead a certain way and want me to act a certain way,” Tatum said. “That’s just one traditional style of leadership, which is not true. Because everybody is different. Every person, personality, the way you grow up is different. My demeanor, I’m much more reserved than that. But like I said, I show up every day. I try to lead by example. I talk to guys all the time in the huddles and in the locker room. I think that’s just the way I approach it. Everybody is different, but that’s me and I’m gonna be me.”

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/05/jayson-tatum-leads-by-example-to-carry-celtics-into-postseason-showdown-with-nets-im-going-to-be-me.html

[Tr1boy]

I think people underestimate the flaws of other teams' star players. All players are flawed. When you follow a player closely and your team isn't winning, those flaws become magnified.

This... but also ... lets face it he didnt have a very good regular season

Based on what, though? The opinion of Boston sports radio?

I think a player who's top 10 in the league in scoring, posts career high's in scoring, rebounds, and assists and is selected as an All-Star - even with Covid hitting him in the middle of it - had a good season.

If you want to make the argument that the team didn't have as much success as some believe it should have, fine. But I think that goes more to flawed roster execution and the inability of management to replace the drain of talent we've faced over the past 3 years.

Again Covid and injuries are a factor

but Celts were a poor 1st quarter team this season.   Tatum defense "compete" report card is an unknown

To say he was amazing this season and blame everyone else..... can't make that conclusion.   

IF Tatum played (without Covid), was able to try harder on defense and also pass the ball a little more.  But Celts lost games by 4 or 6 points vs numerous blowouts/semi blowouts.    It is easier to "isolate" that, it wasn't on that one or two players

Its harder to do that with the season the Celts had

[Somebody]

I think people underestimate the flaws of other teams' star players. All players are flawed. When you follow a player closely and your team isn't winning, those flaws become magnified.

To be fair I don't think Tatum's critics are glorifying the Bradley Beals of the world while crapping on Tatum, they're giving a pass to some of the very best players in the league (eg. LeBron, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, AD, Giannis, Jokic, Doncic, Harden, Embiid).

[ETNCeltics]

I think people underestimate the flaws of other teams' star players. All players are flawed. When you follow a player closely and your team isn't winning, those flaws become magnified.

This... but also ... lets face it he didnt have a very good regular season

Covid was a problem. But also growing pains trying to become a leader

Even though the 50pts was great yesterday...and Celts needed it.  Even Brad wanted to see more ball movement (post game presser)

As the game slows down even more for Tatum...hopefully his assist numbers will improve

Btw .. yesterday was his best D performance I have seen out of him. I guess he saves it for the postseason.

Ridiculous. He had a very good regular season, even with covid. He was an all star and he's probably going to be all-nba. He just didn't have a regular season to meet with your expectations.

[Somebody]

Am I the only one both surprised and annoyed by the criticism that Tatum gets, particularly in the game threads?

I was following along last night prior to halftime, and the level of criticism directed toward this kid was disproportionate. I don’t think it represents a majority of the Fanbase, but it seems like if he makes four great plays followed by two bad ones, the critics sharpen their vocal knives.

It’s probably the nature of the fanhood beast, but to me it just doesn’t makes sense that people go out of their way to criticize him.  Tatum is already way better then I imagined he would be when we drafted him. There is a legitimate argument that he’s already better than Paul Pierce ever was, and Pierce is in the pantheon of Celtics.

Just cut him some slack and enjoy his game. The kid just dropped 50 points in a playoff game, and there isn’t a thread about his performance anywhere.  We are watching the maturation of the best homegrown Celtic probably since Bird.  Celebrate the young man!

Are there people not celebrating about having a 22-23 year old All-NBA wing who'll be on the team for the years to come? At the very least, my 'criticism' of him has been in response to people thinking that he'll magically become LeBron/Durant in the future, not that I'm somehow unhappy about having a young Pierce-esque wing right now who has the potential to grow beyond that and likely peak as a strong All-NBA calibre wing as he continues to refine his offence.

[RJ87]

Am I the only one both surprised and annoyed by the criticism that Tatum gets, particularly in the game threads?

I was following along last night prior to halftime, and the level of criticism directed toward this kid was disproportionate. I don’t think it represents a majority of the Fanbase, but it seems like if he makes four great plays followed by two bad ones, the critics sharpen their vocal knives.

It’s probably the nature of the fanhood beast, but to me it just doesn’t makes sense that people go out of their way to criticize him.  Tatum is already way better then I imagined he would be when we drafted him. There is a legitimate argument that he’s already better than Paul Pierce ever was, and Pierce is in the pantheon of Celtics.

Just cut him some slack and enjoy his game. The kid just dropped 50 points in a playoff game, and there isn’t a thread about his performance anywhere.  We are watching the maturation of the best homegrown Celtic probably since Bird.  Celebrate the young man!

Are there people not celebrating about having a 22-23 year old All-NBA wing who'll be on the team for the years to come? At the very least, my 'criticism' of him has been in response to people thinking that he'll magically become LeBron/Durant in the future, not that I'm somehow unhappy about having a young Pierce-esque wing right now who has the potential to grow beyond that and likely peak as a strong All-NBA calibre wing as he continues to refine his offence.

I think we can all agree that honest critiques are fine, no? I do think there's a difference between critiquing and the general tone that seems to surround him at times. You have people on this board constantly questioning his fire and interest in winning, you have media dolts on social media claiming they can't wait for him to request a trade and leave. There's this odd faction of fans who have decided that because he hasn't proven himself to be the GOAT at 23, the Celtics should move on from him.

Most players don't come into the NBA as finished products or reach their peak before the end of their rookie contract.

[Tr1boy]

Am I the only one both surprised and annoyed by the criticism that Tatum gets, particularly in the game threads?

I was following along last night prior to halftime, and the level of criticism directed toward this kid was disproportionate. I don’t think it represents a majority of the Fanbase, but it seems like if he makes four great plays followed by two bad ones, the critics sharpen their vocal knives.

It’s probably the nature of the fanhood beast, but to me it just doesn’t makes sense that people go out of their way to criticize him.  Tatum is already way better then I imagined he would be when we drafted him. There is a legitimate argument that he’s already better than Paul Pierce ever was, and Pierce is in the pantheon of Celtics.

Just cut him some slack and enjoy his game. The kid just dropped 50 points in a playoff game, and there isn’t a thread about his performance anywhere.  We are watching the maturation of the best homegrown Celtic probably since Bird.  Celebrate the young man!

Are there people not celebrating about having a 22-23 year old All-NBA wing who'll be on the team for the years to come? At the very least, my 'criticism' of him has been in response to people thinking that he'll magically become LeBron/Durant in the future, not that I'm somehow unhappy about having a young Pierce-esque wing right now who has the potential to grow beyond that and likely peak as a strong All-NBA calibre wing as he continues to refine his offence.

I think we can all agree that honest critiques are fine, no? I do think there's a difference between critiquing and the general tone that seems to surround him at times. You have people on this board constantly questioning his fire and interest in winning, you have media dolts on social media claiming they can't wait for him to request a trade and leave. There's this odd faction of fans who have decided that because he hasn't proven himself to be the GOAT at 23, the Celtics should move on from him.

Most players don't come into the NBA as finished products or reach their peak before the end of their rookie contract.

Nobody questions his talent/skills

Its the fire, consistency, team play that have been in question at times. Now that he is the man of the team

You can question media intention... most like espn guys have no clue. But its hard to fault critique of Gorman, Karalis, Perkins of the world

Even with this, like you said he is young.  Maybe also Thompson planted a seed to go at 75 percent for  regular season play(not even considering covid)

[Atzar]

Some of the criticism was from me.  Specifically, I mentioned that Tatum's lack of physicality is one of my biggest beefs remaining with his game.  I stand by that statement.

He doesn't like having to body up guys.  He doesn't box out much, and an extremely high percentage of his rebounds are uncontested.  On defense, he uses his length effectively, but often when his assignment is to help down into the paint then he doesn't like to put his chest between a guy and the rim.  On offense, he's getting better about aggressively attacking the paint but I still think he settles for tough fadeaways over smaller defenders too often. 

All of that doesn't mean that I dislike Tatum.  By all accounts he's a very good person, he's a special player, and he's probably our most talented pure scorer since Bird.  The kid just took on the league's most prolific triple-double machine in history, along with the second-best scorer in the NBA this season, and absolutely murdered them live on television in a must-win game.  I give him all the credit in the world for that.  But there are still some things that I still want him to be better at. 

[Tr1boy]

Some of the criticism was from me.  Specifically, I mentioned that Tatum's lack of physicality is one of my biggest beefs remaining with his game.  I stand by that statement.

He doesn't like having to body up guys.  He doesn't box out much, and an extremely high percentage of his rebounds are uncontested.  On defense, he uses his length effectively, but often when his assignment is to help down into the paint then he doesn't like to put his chest between a guy and the rim.  On offense, he's getting better about aggressively attacking the paint but I still think he settles for tough fadeaways over smaller defenders too often. 

All of that doesn't mean that I dislike Tatum.  By all accounts he's a very good person, he's a special player, and he's probably our most talented pure scorer since Bird.  The kid just took on the league's most prolific triple-double machine in history, along with the second-best scorer in the NBA this season, and absolutely murdered them live on television in a must-win game.  I give him all the credit in the world for that.  But there are still some things that I still want him to be better at.

He was much better with all of these things yesterday.  That one play where he followed Westbrook and blocked his shot at the rim...don't remember seeing that this season.  That was a key stop

maybe Tatum is like a cat.  Easy going/chill/slick.  But put in a corner (threat of end of season)....

[Ogaju]

Some of the criticism was from me.  Specifically, I mentioned that Tatum's lack of physicality is one of my biggest beefs remaining with his game.  I stand by that statement.

He doesn't like having to body up guys.  He doesn't box out much, and an extremely high percentage of his rebounds are uncontested.  On defense, he uses his length effectively, but often when his assignment is to help down into the paint then he doesn't like to put his chest between a guy and the rim.  On offense, he's getting better about aggressively attacking the paint but I still think he settles for tough fadeaways over smaller defenders too often. 

All of that doesn't mean that I dislike Tatum.  By all accounts he's a very good person, he's a special player, and he's probably our most talented pure scorer since Bird.  The kid just took on the league's most prolific triple-double machine in history, along with the second-best scorer in the NBA this season, and absolutely murdered them live on television in a must-win game.  I give him all the credit in the world for that.  But there are still some things that I still want him to be better at.

Danny needs to get a PF and stop playing the kid out of position.

[Rikibellevie]

Some of the criticism was from me.  Specifically, I mentioned that Tatum's lack of physicality is one of my biggest beefs remaining with his game.  I stand by that statement.

He doesn't like having to body up guys.  He doesn't box out much, and an extremely high percentage of his rebounds are uncontested.  On defense, he uses his length effectively, but often when his assignment is to help down into the paint then he doesn't like to put his chest between a guy and the rim.  On offense, he's getting better about aggressively attacking the paint but I still think he settles for tough fadeaways over smaller defenders too often. 

All of that doesn't mean that I dislike Tatum.  By all accounts he's a very good person, he's a special player, and he's probably our most talented pure scorer since Bird.  The kid just took on the league's most prolific triple-double machine in history, along with the second-best scorer in the NBA this season, and absolutely murdered them live on television in a must-win game.  I give him all the credit in the world for that.  But there are still some things that I still want him to be better at.

Danny needs to get a PF and stop playing the kid out of position.

I totally agree and it is sad because it was quiet obivous since day one and mentionned by Danny himself before deadline.
This young guy is a phenomen. Both statically, from the experience way and from his progression view, which kid was really better than hil in NBA history, at 23 of age? Not that much. He is full of talent. Saying a guy is soft when in a bad mmod team, with big impact from Covid, he puts Damien Lillard kind of stats, at 23...

[Moranis]

Some of the criticism was from me.  Specifically, I mentioned that Tatum's lack of physicality is one of my biggest beefs remaining with his game.  I stand by that statement.

He doesn't like having to body up guys.  He doesn't box out much, and an extremely high percentage of his rebounds are uncontested.  On defense, he uses his length effectively, but often when his assignment is to help down into the paint then he doesn't like to put his chest between a guy and the rim.  On offense, he's getting better about aggressively attacking the paint but I still think he settles for tough fadeaways over smaller defenders too often. 

All of that doesn't mean that I dislike Tatum.  By all accounts he's a very good person, he's a special player, and he's probably our most talented pure scorer since Bird.  The kid just took on the league's most prolific triple-double machine in history, along with the second-best scorer in the NBA this season, and absolutely murdered them live on television in a must-win game.  I give him all the credit in the world for that.  But there are still some things that I still want him to be better at.

Danny needs to get a PF and stop playing the kid out of position.

I think that is the biggest problem with the team.  Your best player should be playing his best position.  And Tatum is at his best at SF.  The problem with that is of course the 2nd best player is also at his best at SF, the 3rd best player is a PG, and the 4th and 5th best players are also wings.  Now without Brown some of that clutter is resolved, but the simple reality is, Tatum is a SF and should absolutely be playing there 90-% of the team.  The team just doesn't have a PF and needs one badly.

[Ogaju]

Some of the criticism was from me.  Specifically, I mentioned that Tatum's lack of physicality is one of my biggest beefs remaining with his game.  I stand by that statement.

He doesn't like having to body up guys.  He doesn't box out much, and an extremely high percentage of his rebounds are uncontested.  On defense, he uses his length effectively, but often when his assignment is to help down into the paint then he doesn't like to put his chest between a guy and the rim.  On offense, he's getting better about aggressively attacking the paint but I still think he settles for tough fadeaways over smaller defenders too often. 

All of that doesn't mean that I dislike Tatum.  By all accounts he's a very good person, he's a special player, and he's probably our most talented pure scorer since Bird.  The kid just took on the league's most prolific triple-double machine in history, along with the second-best scorer in the NBA this season, and absolutely murdered them live on television in a must-win game.  I give him all the credit in the world for that.  But there are still some things that I still want him to be better at.

Danny needs to get a PF and stop playing the kid out of position.

I think that is the biggest problem with the team.  Your best player should be playing his best position.  And Tatum is at his best at SF.  The problem with that is of course the 2nd best player is also at his best at SF, the 3rd best player is a PG, and the 4th and 5th best players are also wings.  Now without Brown some of that clutter is resolved, but the simple reality is, Tatum is a SF and should absolutely be playing there 90-% of the team.  The team just doesn't have a PF and needs one badly.

Moranis, you and Riki have vast knowledge about basketball. This question is for both of you and anyone that wants to chime in..I saw a draft projection with Cs drafting a point guard with Usman Garuba on the board. Have you seen this Garuba kid play and should Cs be picking another guard with him available?

[Celtics4ever]

Drafting a PG really depends on what other moves Ainge is going to make in terms of our core.     I hope we take the best player available.