Revisiting Rebuild Ideas

[GreenlyGreeny]

This team is simply not working. It’s safe to say we should flunk out of the play-in and hope for a top pick rather than a first or second-round exit (even MJ could not carry an entire team to a championship, so JT has no chance).

After seeing what Tatum/Brown can do for you, are you really happier than the outcome we had in 2016-2018? Are you really more optimistic about the future than you were in Tatum/Brown’s 1st/2nd seasons? What is going on here?

One viewpoint: We need to clearly signal this is Stevens’ team (after all, he’s the guy who attracted free agents to Boston for the first time ever…before something happened, which resulted in quality guys like Hayward and Horford jumping ship after helping contribute to successes).

One way to show this is Stevens’ team is by a wholesale change: Move Tatum, Brown, Walker, Smart, TT and the filler. In the view of some, only newcomers Langford, Pritchard, Nesmith, Fournier and Parker should survive such a purge, and that’s assuming none of them were not buying into Stevens’ system (or contributing to whatever the heck this year was).

Here’s an idea for how to pull off the above, clearing a ton of cap space in the process:

https://tradenba.com/trades/7g2d9eTVQ

Essentially we’d be moving:

1. Tatum for Zion (high-risk/high-reward for us, guaranteed four years of a superstar for the Pelicans, so I say they do it)
2. Brown for Morant (Same as one, albeit less of a superstar and only three years for Brown…but few are projecting Morant to be as good as Zion, anyway).
3. Kemba for a TPE from Kemba’s hometown team during a weak free agency in which the Knicks have cap space (and we need Kemba’s good will if we deal him)
4. Smart/Timelord/TT, the expiring guys who are going to soon be unaffordable, for Green/Wiseman, who are affordable guys under contract for three more years. All things considered, going to GSW should not make any of those guys feel bad.

Zion and Ja are still on their rookie deals, and complement each other’s game far better than Tatum/Brown (name the last wing duo to win it all). Let’s face it: Our wing duo just does not seem diverse enough to take us to the next level…

But here’s the move that pushes us over the top: Send signals to Kawhi that if he opts out of LA, we’ve got a ticket to his very own 2020s dynasty with the above young guns:

We’ve dropped our cap by $67 million, giving us enough room to sign Kawhi Leonard. After Kawhi signs, re-sign Fournier since we have his rights and can now go over the cap once Kawhi is inked. If we lose Fournier, though, time for Langford, Pritchard and Nesmith to step up, and we bring in a reclamation project.

Finally, use the Walker TPE and 1-2 first rounders (our 2021 lottery pick is off the table) to bring in Porzingis (or 2-3 picks for Siakam if he demands a trade to be reunited with Kawhi, which would be ideal).

Morant/Pritchard/Madar
Fournier/Langford
Leonard/Nesmith
Williamson/Green/Parker
Porzingis/Wiseman

Use the 2021 pick on BPA, hopefully a 2/3 (hopefully Cade Cunningham, meaning we won the darn lottery and will control the league the next 15 years). 2022 second rounder on BPA, preferably a Euro gem. That leaves room for one more, so any room leftover for a MLE vet with TT off the books? Or a reclamation project like Dante Exum?

Other ideas as it relates to a wholesale makeover?

[Donoghus]

I see someone’s been drinking tonight...

[PhoSita]

Look, I get the impulse to write this kind of thread.

I do.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I see someone’s been drinking tonight...

So Jayson and Jaylen are not worth Ja and Zion? You gotta be drunk to think our duo are going to fetch such a return?

Look, I get the impulse to write this kind of thread.

I do.

This has been even worse than Kyrie’s last season

[Kiorrik]

I see someone’s been drinking tonight...

So Jayson and Jaylen are not worth Ja and Zion? You gotta be drunk to think our duo are going to fetch such a return?

Look, I get the impulse to write this kind of thread.

I do.

This has been even worse than Kyrie’s last season

Yeah - only these guys all have the excuse of being way too young, and the season's been a mess with injuries.

All the reasons in the world to expect things to get better next year.

[gouki88]

Back at it with the preposterous trade proposals I see

[Celtics4ever]

NBA Live GMing at it's best

[A Future of Stevens]

I am fairly certain Zion is untouchable for that franchise.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few uber elite stars that have better overall value, but we are talking stars in their prime. Think LBJ, Durant, Giannis, etc. The Pelicans would be forced to try and get additional win now talent, or risk losing them eventually.

Given the state of their roster, Zion is basically their best case long term solution. The only possible downside is the specter of health.

I think we are all a bit shell shocked from this season. I am interested to see what kind of moves the team makes going forward. Contrary to a huge sentiment here, I think one truly disappointing season and a ton of good seasons doesn't raise a huge red flag for Stevens.

This season more than any recent one, really should force Ainge's hand at shoring up the role players.

[Birdman]

Pelicans not trading Zion for no one..no one

[GreenlyGreeny]

If Tatum and Brown cannot get us Zion and Morant, who can they get us? Are we really this screwed? Can we even move Jaylen for the top 2021 first overall pick?

Yes, I’m drunk, but we gotta shake things up. We gotta move Tatum and/or Brown. So who can we get for them?

[Vermont Green]

If Tatum and Brown cannot get us Zion and Morant, who can they get us? Are we really this screwed? Can we even move Jaylen for the top 2021 first overall pick?

Yes, I’m drunk, but we gotta shake things up. We gotta move Tatum and/or Brown. So who can we get for them?

I think the point is that NOP would not trade Zion for Tatum.  It isn't so much about who is better but NOP already has a really good wing in Brandon Ingram.  It is perfect to have Zion as the big and Ingram as the wing.  It would be a step back for them to trade Zion for any wing.  A really good big is way harder to find than a good wing.

What could work for the Celtics would be to trade Brown for a really good big.  Then the Celtics could be more like NOP and have a really good wing (Tatum) and a really good big (who we get for Brown).  Or otherwise try to trade Kemba for just a pretty good big.  Finding a team that is willing to give up a really good big for Brown would not be easy.  But if such a match could be found, this would be a good way to "shake up" the team/roster.

[PhoSita]

Yes, I’m drunk, but we gotta shake things up. We gotta move Tatum and/or Brown.

Why?

We've seen the Celts make reasonably deep playoff runs with those guys as core pieces.

Can you win a championship with Tatum and Brown as your best players?  Probably not?  We don't know yet. But it probably is a long shot.

Can you build a very good team with Tatum and Brown as the leading scorers?  Yes, I think that's obvious.


I don't think there's a trade out there involving Tatum or Brown that makes the team better right now.  Maybe you can swap Brown for somebody like Beal and it's an upgrade in the short term, but still doesn't change the team's ceiling much.  Long term that would be a downgrade in all likelihood.


If your perspective is, "Tatum and Brown aren't winning us a title, so we need to start over," then I can't get on board with that.  You haven't said that, so I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.  But if you aren't trying to make the team a lot better by trading Tatum or Brown -- and as I've just said, I don't think that's an option -- then the alternative is that you're trading them because you've decided they aren't winning you a title, so you need to basically reset and try to find a new young core player or two who maybe can lead you to a title someday.


To the extent that's at all on people's minds, I disagree with it.  Teams spend years and years rebuilding just to end up with two in-their-prime core scorers like Tatum and Brown.  The Celts can be very good and entertaining for a while with those guys leading the way.  I'm happy to watch a good and entertaining version of this team led by those guys, even if it's a long shot to win a title.  I'd rather do that instead of hitting reset and spending who knows how long searching or a new group of players to build around.

[Somebody]

I see someone’s been drinking tonight...

So Jayson and Jaylen are not worth Ja and Zion? You gotta be drunk to think our duo are going to fetch such a return?

Look, I get the impulse to write this kind of thread.

I do.

This has been even worse than Kyrie’s last season

I think Zion's value has gone through the roof after his season this year, but I do agree that Ja isn't someone that would make teams scoff at an offer of Brown or Tatum.

[Somebody]

Yes, I’m drunk, but we gotta shake things up. We gotta move Tatum and/or Brown.

Why?

We've seen the Celts make reasonably deep playoff runs with those guys as core pieces.

Can you win a championship with Tatum and Brown as your best players?  Probably not?  We don't know yet. But it probably is a long shot.

Can you build a very good team with Tatum and Brown as the leading scorers?  Yes, I think that's obvious.


I don't think there's a trade out there involving Tatum or Brown that makes the team better right now.  Maybe you can swap Brown for somebody like Beal and it's an upgrade in the short term, but still doesn't change the team's ceiling much.  Long term that would be a downgrade in all likelihood.


If your perspective is, "Tatum and Brown aren't winning us a title, so we need to start over," then I can't get on board with that.  You haven't said that, so I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.  But if you aren't trying to make the team a lot better by trading Tatum or Brown -- and as I've just said, I don't think that's an option -- then the alternative is that you're trading them because you've decided they aren't winning you a title, so you need to basically reset and try to find a new young core player or two who maybe can lead you to a title someday.


To the extent that's at all on people's minds, I disagree with it.  Teams spend years and years rebuilding just to end up with two in-their-prime core scorers like Tatum and Brown.  The Celts can be very good and entertaining for a while with those guys leading the way.  I'm happy to watch a good and entertaining version of this team led by those guys, even if it's a long shot to win a title.  I'd rather do that instead of hitting reset and spending who knows how long searching or a new group of players to build around.

Considering that we were a title contender last year with Tatum and Brown as two of our best players as well as the fact that Kemba is returning to All-Star form, I don't see why we couldn't contend for titles going forward with the right coaching and supporting cast - we need our coach to find his mojo again/replace our current coach with a better one as well as add more rotation pieces to our roster.

[PhoSita]

Considering that we were a title contender last year with Tatum and Brown as two of our best players as well as the fact that Kemba is returning to All-Star form, I don't see why we couldn't contend for titles going forward with the right coaching and supporting cast - we need our coach to find his mojo again/replace our current coach with a better one as well as add more rotation pieces to our roster.

Well I disagree that coaching is the issue. I think the Celtics were a long shot contender last year, same as they were in 2018.  So that's kind of in line with what I'm saying. 

I think if you have the right supporting cast, good chemistry, and good luck with health etc, you can definitely have a chance with Tatum and Brown.  Realistically, if you don't have one of the top 5 MVP candidates on your team, having a long shot chance at winning the title is probably the best you can hope for.  Even with that, you can have a very competitive and entertaining season that lasts deep into the second or third round.