Useless bench players

[gouki88]

Grant is absolutely horrible, hopefully Parker takes all his minutes.

Wrong once again

I take that as a compliment from you.   Thanks.

Grant Williams has a player efficiency rating of 7.25...League average is 15. His Per 36 is 8.4pts and 5.7rebs which is pathetic.

Played 24 mins tonight and had 4pts and a 2rebs. Have no idea how people think he is a quality bench player.

Name names. I want to know what people have been saying this. He's a good 8-10 guy in the rotation. Plays good, versatile defence, and hits threes.

[cman88]

theres a reason Danny brought in Fournier and now Jabari Parker. There is a lack of scoring on the bench outside of Prichard. I said earlier in the season that was a huge problem for us.

You need guys that are a threat to at least score the ball and can go off when your stars have an off-night. Grant williams/Semi do not strike fear in opposing teams.

we saw Jabari Parker play crunch time minutes yesterday in his First game with no practice because Draymond Green was just playing center fielder with semi/grant out there.

now with Fournier/Parker i think our 9 man rotation is pretty decent

Kemba/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Thompson and a bench of Prichard/fournier/parker/timelord

[Goldstar88]

Grant is absolutely horrible, hopefully Parker takes all his minutes.

Wrong once again

I take that as a compliment from you.   Thanks.

Grant Williams has a player efficiency rating of 7.25...League average is 15. His Per 36 is 8.4pts and 5.7rebs which is pathetic.

Played 24 mins tonight and had 4pts and a 2rebs. Have no idea how people think he is a quality bench player.

PER is skewed towards players who take a bunch of shots and/or grab a bunch of rebounds.  Guys who contribute in other ways don't get credit.  Draymond Green has been in the 12s the last three seasons, and his career best was 19.3, while a guy like Marcin Gortat has a career best of 21.2 and a career low of 12.8.  Pick a better stat to criticize Grant, please.  (As a Grant fan, I will admit other stats exist that can produce criticism).

Draymond is not the player that he used to be and his per is still almost double that of Grant Williams . Grant is not very good at scoring, rebounding or passing, and his defense is average at best due to his lack of height, athleticism and poor lateral quickness. Better?

[cman88]

Grant is absolutely horrible, hopefully Parker takes all his minutes.

Wrong once again

I take that as a compliment from you.   Thanks.

Grant Williams has a player efficiency rating of 7.25...League average is 15. His Per 36 is 8.4pts and 5.7rebs which is pathetic.

Played 24 mins tonight and had 4pts and a 2rebs. Have no idea how people think he is a quality bench player.

PER is skewed towards players who take a bunch of shots and/or grab a bunch of rebounds.  Guys who contribute in other ways don't get credit.  Draymond Green has been in the 12s the last three seasons, and his career best was 19.3, while a guy like Marcin Gortat has a career best of 21.2 and a career low of 12.8.  Pick a better stat to criticize Grant, please.  (As a Grant fan, I will admit other stats exist that can produce criticism).

Draymond is not the player that he used to be and his per is still almost double that of Grant Williams . Grant is not very good at scoring, rebounding or passing, and his defense is average at best due to his lack of height, athleticism and poor lateral quickness. Better?

Wililams and Semi are basically JAG's and teams dont respect them on offense. its pretty telling when you throw a guy like Jabari Parker who has been on the team ONE DAY with no practice in crunch time instead of Williams/Semi.

I still contend that the biggest issue with this team for the last few years has been bench depth. The celtics have to rely on their top guys to score every night for offense. Luckily danny finally got the message and went out and got Fournier/Parker realizing we cant have a bench full of black holes on offense.

[hwangjini_1]

i was not sure where to post this, but this thread might work.

useless bench players....but let us all remember that even this useless bench players are so much better than any of us. period. even bottom feeding nba players are amazing players who would take our lunch money each and every day.

this is a great video of our very own brian scalabrine proving this point. it is a fun watch. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i93vF0WOX6w&t=721s

[Somebody]

Players like Semi and Grant aren't 'useless bench players' - that label belongs to lads like Wagner, Edwards and Waters. Semi and Grant are solid defenders who can hold their ground against a variety of attackers and can be passable off-ball players surrounding on-ball stars with their ability to shoot as fringe rotation players. Any issues caused by them before recent weeks is due to us asking too much of them: it's not going to end well if you play passable 9th to 12th men as spot starters or the first forwards off the bench.

[Celtics2021]

Grant is absolutely horrible, hopefully Parker takes all his minutes.

Wrong once again

I take that as a compliment from you.   Thanks.

Grant Williams has a player efficiency rating of 7.25...League average is 15. His Per 36 is 8.4pts and 5.7rebs which is pathetic.

Played 24 mins tonight and had 4pts and a 2rebs. Have no idea how people think he is a quality bench player.

PER is skewed towards players who take a bunch of shots and/or grab a bunch of rebounds.  Guys who contribute in other ways don't get credit.  Draymond Green has been in the 12s the last three seasons, and his career best was 19.3, while a guy like Marcin Gortat has a career best of 21.2 and a career low of 12.8.  Pick a better stat to criticize Grant, please.  (As a Grant fan, I will admit other stats exist that can produce criticism).

Draymond is not the player that he used to be and his per is still almost double that of Grant Williams . Grant is not very good at scoring, rebounding or passing, and his defense is average at best due to his lack of height, athleticism and poor lateral quickness. Better?

Again, PER is a crap stat.  Jabari Parker's PER after one game with the Celtics is 27.  For perspective, which seems to be difficult around here at times, Tatum has a PER of 21.3 and Brown a PER 20.5.  In other words, according to PER, Jabari's play last night was a tier better than what we've seen, on average, from Tatum and Brown this season.  In other words, MVP caliber compared to or All-Star borderline All-NBA caliber.  If Parker looked MVP-level to you over his 15 minutes last night, fine, keep using it, but otherwise consider that it's probably not the stat an analytically-minded team like the Celtics is relying on very much, and perhaps you shouldn't either.

[Goldstar88]

Even if you disregard the PER is doesn’t change the fact that G-Will is not very good at scoring, rebounding or passing, and his defense is average at best due to his lack of height, athleticism and poor lateral quickness.

If you think he’s a quality bench player, that’s fine. I just don’t think that he is.

[Chief]

Curry ended up guarding Grant Williams a lot last night.

Williams would just spot up in a corner on offense.

Why not post? Is he told not to???

If you are going to be valuable off the bench, you better exploit your mismatch.

[Goldstar88]

Grant is absolutely horrible, hopefully Parker takes all his minutes.

Wrong once again

I take that as a compliment from you.   Thanks.

Grant Williams has a player efficiency rating of 7.25...League average is 15. His Per 36 is 8.4pts and 5.7rebs which is pathetic.

Played 24 mins tonight and had 4pts and a 2rebs. Have no idea how people think he is a quality bench player.

Name names. I want to know what people have been saying this. He's a good 8-10 guy in the rotation. Plays good, versatile defence, and hits threes.

You just said that he’s a “good” 8-10 guy in the rotation. He’s been the first big off the bench for much of the season, which is a problem. He’s a 3rd sting talent and should be playing behind Semi and Parker at the PF and behind Kornet at the C spot. His 3 pt shooting Has dropped off significantly. Over the last 10 games he’s shooting 18% from 3pt and on the season he’s down to 37%.  He’s been averaging 2pts and 2rebs over the last 10. Do you consider that to be good?

[gouki88]

Even if you disregard the PER is doesn’t change the fact that G-Will is not very good at scoring, rebounding or passing, and his defense is average at best due to his lack of height, athleticism and poor lateral quickness.

If you think he’s a quality bench player, that’s fine. I just don’t think that he is.

Wrong

[Scottiej23]

Even if you disregard the PER is doesn’t change the fact that G-Will is not very good at scoring, rebounding or passing, and his defense is average at best due to his lack of height, athleticism and poor lateral quickness.

If you think he’s a quality bench player, that’s fine. I just don’t think that he is.

Wrong

You're wrong.

[gouki88]

Even if you disregard the PER is doesn’t change the fact that G-Will is not very good at scoring, rebounding or passing, and his defense is average at best due to his lack of height, athleticism and poor lateral quickness.

If you think he’s a quality bench player, that’s fine. I just don’t think that he is.

Wrong

You're wrong.

Prove it

[Kiorrik]

As fun as it is to watch you guys play preschool ...

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738&PlayerPosition=F

Grant's not scoring very high, defence-wise, within our team.

He's about middle-of-the-pack in the league at his position, when it comes to defence.

He's no.21 out of 56 Sophomores.

So count him a bit above middle of the pack.

Checked his +- as well. 0. Middle of the pack.

He's a perfectly average player.

[Celtics2021]

As fun as it is to watch you guys play preschool ...

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738&PlayerPosition=F

Grant's not scoring very high, defence-wise, within our team.

He's about middle-of-the-pack in the league at his position, when it comes to defence.

He's no.21 out of 56 Sophomores.

So count him a bit above middle of the pack.

Checked his +- as well. 0. Middle of the pack.

He's a perfectly average player.

Fair point.  However, if you look at his last 15 games (the most you can filter), he effectively leads the team.  (Fournier and Thompson are ahead of him, but they’ve only played in 4 and 6 games over that period due to Covid).  Grant stunk earlier this year, I’ll readily admit it, and Stevens benched him several games.  But he’s really picked up his play of late.  I don’t think Defensive Win Shares is a perfect stat, but I also think it’s no accident that Grant is performing so well in it during the same period he’s regained a prominent place in the rotation, and also during which the Celtics have played better basketball.