Which of these Jaylen trades, if any, do you make?

[Tr1boy]

Somebody said they would not trade BROWN for Donovan Mitchell...lol

Mitchell > Brown

just out of curiosity

is Mitchell > Tatum  also?

[Irish Stew]

If I'm moving someone like Brown, I would want one of the league's stars in return, so Beal would be the only scenario that I might accept.

This trade, because of the close friendship between Tatum and Beal, might give our roster long term stability with its two top talents.

I think that because of the 3 year age difference between Brown and Beal, only one of Nesmith or our 21 1st should be included. I'd rather keep Nesmith.

[Phantom255x]

Going to be honest, it's hard for me to really see a trade that works well for us if we do trade Brown. Like sure, you can deal him in a trade for Beal, but how much better are we really getting? And also, I feel Jaylen can become just as good, if not better than Beal a few years from now on both ends of the court (he's already a much better defender).

As for KAT, I like him, but I also feel he isn't really someone that's going to solve our "aggression" problem. There are times when he's soft and while he can put up numbers, I don't think it's going to suddenly improve our team by that much assuming you're trading away Brown and probably another young player to do it.

The difficult thing for Ainge will be, can he really get that adequate 3rd piece to go along with Brown and Tatum long term? Kemba obviously isn't that anymore, and I think Fournier is nice but more as a 4th guy on a championship team.

And I mean if you're trading Jaylen for another really young player and/or draft picks, then I feel that's sort of signaling a rebuild of sorts anyways and you'd probably consider blowing some more things up in that instance.

I also really don't think a guy like Mitchell is moving anytime soon. Now Jaylen to the Warriors is an interesting scenario, but as the trade idea looks we'd be taking back a contract like Wiggins or Draymond which could also impact how we are able to construct the roster (like the bench).

[Goldstar88]

Somebody said they would not trade BROWN for Donovan Mitchell...lol

Mitchell > Brown

just out of curiosity

is Mitchell > Tatum  also?

I’d rather have Brown over Mitchell. He’s good, but I’d rather have a 6’6” wing player over an undersized guard. Definitely Would rather have Tatum.

[Who]

I’m sorry guys, but this isn’t close. I’d easily take Donovan Mitchell over Jaylen. You can’t simply look at numbers when comparing/evaluating players. It’s the intangibles that take players to the next level. I’d favor Mitchell over Brown in the following:
•   Basketball IQ
•   Basketball instincts
•   Playmaking/creating offense
•   Making players around you better

If you switched the two players, Utah would be better. Mitchell is surrounded by quality role players who make good decisions and can really shoot. That makes a player look like they are smarter players. Jaylen would thrive with those types of teammates too.

Mitchell is impressive, but Jaylen is a considerably bigger guy and a much better and more versatile defender.

I am not sold on this.

I would say they are on a similar level talent wise but possess a different set of skills. Mitchell's skills are more conducive to winning when he is a #1 offensive option role while Jaylen's are more conducive to winning when he is a #2 guy. So it depends more on your roster construction than a straight comparison of who is better.

Donovan Mitchell can add more to a team as a #1 because of his superior ball-handling which leads to superior self-generated shot attempts & improved offensive opportunities for his teammates from his playmaking out of these ball-handling sequences.

Jaylen is superior at being effective with less touches & less time dribbling the ball. So he is better playing on a team with multiple offensive options because he can share the pie better.

Donovan Mitchell can share by being the man. By being the creator that everything revolves around.

Jaylen Brown shares by NOT being the man. By playing more off the ball and being an assassin when he gets the ball. By allowing more talented teammates room to express themselves in a way that Donovan Mitchell does NOT.

But Donovan Mitchell allows less talented teammates more room to express themselves (spot up shooters & rim rollers) by being the man. By taking on that extra offensive responsibility, reducing the offensive burden on less gifted teammates and creating easier opportunities for them via his ball-handling, shot creation and playmaking.

So to me this is more a question of roster composition than a straight which player is better. It is more complicated than that. In some situations, Donovan Mitchell is better. In other situations, Jaylen Brown is the better player.

But how many teams can actually win with Mitchell as their #1 offensive player? Players of this calibre are usually the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th best players on championship level teams, so it's generally preferable for a player on this level to possess skills that scale well next to better and better teammates instead of having a skillset that demands a team to build around him. And going by that logic, I would say that Jaylen Brown is the better basketball player overall.

I am not sure better or worse are the correct descriptions here. One player is better in certain situations, the other player is better in different situations.

I'd rather leave it there rather than trying to force one player over the other. I do have a preference and I agree in more situations it is Jaylen over Mitchell. However, it is not always about most situations. It is about your team's specific situation. And in some of those situations, Mitchell is the better player. While in some other different situations, Jaylen is the better player.

So it less about who vs who than it is about situation vs situation. Match the situation to the player = get the best results. Put the perceived best player in the wrong situation = get worse results despite having the perceived better individual player.

So yes, I see what you are saying and I agree with almost all of it in terms of scaling and value. However, I am not sure scaling is always the best measurement.

Here, I find more value in understanding chemistry and team construction by looking at skill-sets relative to a specific situation(s) rather than looking at scaling which is ... trying to find a singular way of looking for an end result across all situations rather than specific situations.

It doesn't matter to a team if the individual player is better in 75% of situations vs 25% of situations if your team is in that 25%. You want and need the player who gives you the best chance of winning and that is the guy in the 25% situation. He is the better player for you.

In this comparison, Mitchell is better on some teams. Jaylen Brown is better on other teams. Identifying those teams and correctly matching the player to those individual situation is the goal in order to win a Championship.

Scaling matters more if starting from scratch or early stage team building and which player offers you more flexibility in terms of further team building in order to win the Championship.

Which brings me back to the beginning, I don't think it is as simple as one versus the other. The answer is different for different situations. Which tells me they are on a similar tier (albeit for different reasons) talent wise. 

[gouki88]

I’m sorry guys, but this isn’t close. I’d easily take Donovan Mitchell over Jaylen. You can’t simply look at numbers when comparing/evaluating players. It’s the intangibles that take players to the next level. I’d favor Mitchell over Brown in the following:
•   Basketball IQ
•   Basketball instincts
•   Playmaking/creating offense
•   Making players around you better

If you switched the two players, Utah would be better. Mitchell is surrounded by quality role players who make good decisions and can really shoot. That makes a player look like they are smarter players. Jaylen would thrive with those types of teammates too.

Mitchell is impressive, but Jaylen is a considerably bigger guy and a much better and more versatile defender.

I am not sold on this.

I would say they are on a similar level talent wise but possess a different set of skills. Mitchell's skills are more conducive to winning when he is a #1 offensive option role while Jaylen's are more conducive to winning when he is a #2 guy. So it depends more on your roster construction than a straight comparison of who is better.

Donovan Mitchell can add more to a team as a #1 because of his superior ball-handling which leads to superior self-generated shot attempts & improved offensive opportunities for his teammates from his playmaking out of these ball-handling sequences.

Jaylen is superior at being effective with less touches & less time dribbling the ball. So he is better playing on a team with multiple offensive options because he can share the pie better.

Donovan Mitchell can share by being the man. By being the creator that everything revolves around.

Jaylen Brown shares by NOT being the man. By playing more off the ball and being an assassin when he gets the ball. By allowing more talented teammates room to express themselves in a way that Donovan Mitchell does NOT.

But Donovan Mitchell allows less talented teammates more room to express themselves (spot up shooters & rim rollers) by being the man. By taking on that extra offensive responsibility, reducing the offensive burden on less gifted teammates and creating easier opportunities for them via his ball-handling, shot creation and playmaking.

So to me this is more a question of roster composition than a straight which player is better. It is more complicated than that. In some situations, Donovan Mitchell is better. In other situations, Jaylen Brown is the better player.

But how many teams can actually win with Mitchell as their #1 offensive player? Players of this calibre are usually the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th best players on championship level teams, so it's generally preferable for a player on this level to possess skills that scale well next to better and better teammates instead of having a skillset that demands a team to build around him. And going by that logic, I would say that Jaylen Brown is the better basketball player overall.

Mitchell as the #1 option, helped lead his team to the best record in the league. Meanwhile, Jaylen as the #2 option, needed to win a play-in tournament game just to make the playoffs.

Nonsensical argument when trying to compare individual players

[Somebody]

I’m sorry guys, but this isn’t close. I’d easily take Donovan Mitchell over Jaylen. You can’t simply look at numbers when comparing/evaluating players. It’s the intangibles that take players to the next level. I’d favor Mitchell over Brown in the following:
•   Basketball IQ
•   Basketball instincts
•   Playmaking/creating offense
•   Making players around you better

If you switched the two players, Utah would be better. Mitchell is surrounded by quality role players who make good decisions and can really shoot. That makes a player look like they are smarter players. Jaylen would thrive with those types of teammates too.

Mitchell is impressive, but Jaylen is a considerably bigger guy and a much better and more versatile defender.

I am not sold on this.

I would say they are on a similar level talent wise but possess a different set of skills. Mitchell's skills are more conducive to winning when he is a #1 offensive option role while Jaylen's are more conducive to winning when he is a #2 guy. So it depends more on your roster construction than a straight comparison of who is better.

Donovan Mitchell can add more to a team as a #1 because of his superior ball-handling which leads to superior self-generated shot attempts & improved offensive opportunities for his teammates from his playmaking out of these ball-handling sequences.

Jaylen is superior at being effective with less touches & less time dribbling the ball. So he is better playing on a team with multiple offensive options because he can share the pie better.

Donovan Mitchell can share by being the man. By being the creator that everything revolves around.

Jaylen Brown shares by NOT being the man. By playing more off the ball and being an assassin when he gets the ball. By allowing more talented teammates room to express themselves in a way that Donovan Mitchell does NOT.

But Donovan Mitchell allows less talented teammates more room to express themselves (spot up shooters & rim rollers) by being the man. By taking on that extra offensive responsibility, reducing the offensive burden on less gifted teammates and creating easier opportunities for them via his ball-handling, shot creation and playmaking.

So to me this is more a question of roster composition than a straight which player is better. It is more complicated than that. In some situations, Donovan Mitchell is better. In other situations, Jaylen Brown is the better player.

But how many teams can actually win with Mitchell as their #1 offensive player? Players of this calibre are usually the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th best players on championship level teams, so it's generally preferable for a player on this level to possess skills that scale well next to better and better teammates instead of having a skillset that demands a team to build around him. And going by that logic, I would say that Jaylen Brown is the better basketball player overall.

Mitchell as the #1 option, helped lead his team to the best record in the league. Meanwhile, Jaylen as the #2 option, needed to win a play-in tournament game just to make the playoffs.

Way to go with this disingenuous take when I explicitly said that Utah were still fantastic without him this season

[Somebody]

I’m sorry guys, but this isn’t close. I’d easily take Donovan Mitchell over Jaylen. You can’t simply look at numbers when comparing/evaluating players. It’s the intangibles that take players to the next level. I’d favor Mitchell over Brown in the following:
•   Basketball IQ
•   Basketball instincts
•   Playmaking/creating offense
•   Making players around you better

If you switched the two players, Utah would be better. Mitchell is surrounded by quality role players who make good decisions and can really shoot. That makes a player look like they are smarter players. Jaylen would thrive with those types of teammates too.

Mitchell is impressive, but Jaylen is a considerably bigger guy and a much better and more versatile defender.

I am not sold on this.

I would say they are on a similar level talent wise but possess a different set of skills. Mitchell's skills are more conducive to winning when he is a #1 offensive option role while Jaylen's are more conducive to winning when he is a #2 guy. So it depends more on your roster construction than a straight comparison of who is better.

Donovan Mitchell can add more to a team as a #1 because of his superior ball-handling which leads to superior self-generated shot attempts & improved offensive opportunities for his teammates from his playmaking out of these ball-handling sequences.

Jaylen is superior at being effective with less touches & less time dribbling the ball. So he is better playing on a team with multiple offensive options because he can share the pie better.

Donovan Mitchell can share by being the man. By being the creator that everything revolves around.

Jaylen Brown shares by NOT being the man. By playing more off the ball and being an assassin when he gets the ball. By allowing more talented teammates room to express themselves in a way that Donovan Mitchell does NOT.

But Donovan Mitchell allows less talented teammates more room to express themselves (spot up shooters & rim rollers) by being the man. By taking on that extra offensive responsibility, reducing the offensive burden on less gifted teammates and creating easier opportunities for them via his ball-handling, shot creation and playmaking.

So to me this is more a question of roster composition than a straight which player is better. It is more complicated than that. In some situations, Donovan Mitchell is better. In other situations, Jaylen Brown is the better player.

But how many teams can actually win with Mitchell as their #1 offensive player? Players of this calibre are usually the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th best players on championship level teams, so it's generally preferable for a player on this level to possess skills that scale well next to better and better teammates instead of having a skillset that demands a team to build around him. And going by that logic, I would say that Jaylen Brown is the better basketball player overall.

I am not sure better or worse are the correct descriptions here. One player is better in certain situations, the other player is better in different situations.

I'd rather leave it there rather than trying to force one player over the other. I do have a preference and I agree in more situations it is Jaylen over Mitchell. However, it is not always about most situations. It is about your team's specific situation. And in some of those situations, Mitchell is the better player. While in some other different situations, Jaylen is the better player.

So it less about who vs who than it is about situation vs situation. Match the situation to the player = get the best results. Put the perceived best player in the wrong situation = get worse results despite having the perceived better individual player.

So yes, I see what you are saying and I agree with almost all of it in terms of scaling and value. However, I am not sure scaling is always the best measurement.

Here, I find more value in understanding chemistry and team construction by looking at skill-sets relative to a specific situation(s) rather than looking at scaling which is ... trying to find a singular way of looking for an end result across all situations rather than specific situations.

It doesn't matter to a team if the individual player is better in 75% of situations vs 25% of situations if your team is in that 25%. You want and need the player who gives you the best chance of winning and that is the guy in the 25% situation. He is the better player for you.

In this comparison, Mitchell is better on some teams. Jaylen Brown is better on other teams. Identifying those teams and correctly matching the player to those individual situation is the goal in order to win a Championship.

Scaling matters more if starting from scratch or early stage team building and which player offers you more flexibility in terms of further team building in order to win the Championship.

Which brings me back to the beginning, I don't think it is as simple as one versus the other. The answer is different for different situations. Which tells me they are on a similar tier (albeit for different reasons) talent wise.

Oh absolutely, I agree that both are around the same level. But the aim of an NBA team is to win titles rather than building perennial playoff teams who don't win it all, and a player who gives you more championship-winning lift in most situations is generally more desirable.

I fully recognise the value that Mitchell can have in specific team setups and I credit him for that by explicitly saying that he can be considerably more valuable than Brown in certain situations. But it's possible to have a nuanced take like this and still say that a player is 'better' because he gives you more lift in most setups.

[Birdman]

Brown & Tatum not going anywhere for a long time but for fun, I like Atlanta trade

[BringToughnessBack]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rumor-warriors-listen-trade-offers-231535334.html


Wiseman could be on the block this offseason as the Warriors want a star to join Curry. Is Brown for Wiseman and  Oubre a possible Danny swing for future center star move? Or maybe put the GS pick in vs oubre salary filler.This is not a move for 2022 but rather for 2024-25. It catapults Tatum into super alpha 1 and lets Wiseman join him in a few years as alpha option 2 and maybe draft a pg in first with GS pick. Brown could help GS get back to the finals.

 Or is Towns the one we would put a massive offer together for if Danny wants change. Towns and Rubio for Smart and Brown- Actually think we would be worse with something like that but I am no GM. But if Towns is the missing big we desperately need, maybe this could work. I am still unsure if Towns has the X factor.

 Or do we keep Brown who gets better every year and be patient for Tatum and Brown to evolve into superstars with more experience? Still leaning towards this but worried Danny might try to get a center in a huge risk, huge reward kind of trade.

Find it hard to believe Danny wont try a shakeup trade though.

[BringToughnessBack]

Brown is going nowhere

I have him higher in team rankings than Tatum

Its not all about talent.  Brown also is fierce

If one must go. Trade Tatum

To phx: Tatum, Edwards, Gwilliams
To bos: Ayton, Bridges, Saric, two 1sts

Trading Tatum would become the worst trade in Celtics history. In the end, he will have more championship titles won then any of the players we would get back in that trade. Brown is great but he is not the end of the game playoffs kind of star who can take over consistently. Maybe keeping both is the better option. I am torn.

[johnnygreen]

I’m sorry guys, but this isn’t close. I’d easily take Donovan Mitchell over Jaylen. You can’t simply look at numbers when comparing/evaluating players. It’s the intangibles that take players to the next level. I’d favor Mitchell over Brown in the following:
•   Basketball IQ
•   Basketball instincts
•   Playmaking/creating offense
•   Making players around you better

If you switched the two players, Utah would be better. Mitchell is surrounded by quality role players who make good decisions and can really shoot. That makes a player look like they are smarter players. Jaylen would thrive with those types of teammates too.

Mitchell is impressive, but Jaylen is a considerably bigger guy and a much better and more versatile defender.

I am not sold on this.

I would say they are on a similar level talent wise but possess a different set of skills. Mitchell's skills are more conducive to winning when he is a #1 offensive option role while Jaylen's are more conducive to winning when he is a #2 guy. So it depends more on your roster construction than a straight comparison of who is better.

Donovan Mitchell can add more to a team as a #1 because of his superior ball-handling which leads to superior self-generated shot attempts & improved offensive opportunities for his teammates from his playmaking out of these ball-handling sequences.

Jaylen is superior at being effective with less touches & less time dribbling the ball. So he is better playing on a team with multiple offensive options because he can share the pie better.

Donovan Mitchell can share by being the man. By being the creator that everything revolves around.

Jaylen Brown shares by NOT being the man. By playing more off the ball and being an assassin when he gets the ball. By allowing more talented teammates room to express themselves in a way that Donovan Mitchell does NOT.

But Donovan Mitchell allows less talented teammates more room to express themselves (spot up shooters & rim rollers) by being the man. By taking on that extra offensive responsibility, reducing the offensive burden on less gifted teammates and creating easier opportunities for them via his ball-handling, shot creation and playmaking.

So to me this is more a question of roster composition than a straight which player is better. It is more complicated than that. In some situations, Donovan Mitchell is better. In other situations, Jaylen Brown is the better player.

But how many teams can actually win with Mitchell as their #1 offensive player? Players of this calibre are usually the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th best players on championship level teams, so it's generally preferable for a player on this level to possess skills that scale well next to better and better teammates instead of having a skillset that demands a team to build around him. And going by that logic, I would say that Jaylen Brown is the better basketball player overall.

Mitchell as the #1 option, helped lead his team to the best record in the league. Meanwhile, Jaylen as the #2 option, needed to win a play-in tournament game just to make the playoffs.

Way to go with this disingenuous take when I explicitly said that Utah were still fantastic without him this season

Mitchell missed the last 16 games of the regular season, where the team went 10-6. During that span, they played the Lakers twice, both without LeBron and Davis and went 1-1 against them. They played Phoenix once and lost. Played Portland once and lost. Beat Denver, who didn’t have Murray. And played 7 games against the bottom 4 teams in the West (Minnesota, Sacramento, OKC, Houston). The remaining teams they played didn’t make the playoffs. That was a horrendous stretch of teams played over 16 games, so to say Utah was fantastic without Mitchell is disingenuous.

BTW, the Utah-Memphis series it tied 1-1. Is it any coincidence the game Memphis won, Mitchell didn’t play?

[Rosco917]

The Celtics need a player that has weight enough that Tatum and Brown will follow and learn from him. This player can be a wing, center or PG as long as he is able to take the keys to the car away when they get lost in ISO ball. This player either needs to have strong desire to win a ring, or perhaps already has one.

Tatum specifically needs to understand that selling grinders on TV doesn't mean you've "made it."

Because the truth is neither player could lead a troop of girl scouts around the block. Sadly, both players don't even understand what they don't understand.

 


 

[Moranis]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rumor-warriors-listen-trade-offers-231535334.html


Wiseman could be on the block this offseason as the Warriors want a star to join Curry. Is Brown for Wiseman and  Oubre a possible Danny swing for future center star move? Or maybe put the GS pick in vs oubre salary filler.This is not a move for 2022 but rather for 2024-25. It catapults Tatum into super alpha 1 and lets Wiseman join him in a few years as alpha option 2 and maybe draft a pg in first with GS pick. Brown could help GS get back to the finals.

 Or is Towns the one we would put a massive offer together for if Danny wants change. Towns and Rubio for Smart and Brown- Actually think we would be worse with something like that but I am no GM. But if Towns is the missing big we desperately need, maybe this could work. I am still unsure if Towns has the X factor.

 Or do we keep Brown who gets better every year and be patient for Tatum and Brown to evolve into superstars with more experience? Still leaning towards this but worried Danny might try to get a center in a huge risk, huge reward kind of trade.

Find it hard to believe Danny wont try a shakeup trade though.

If GS ends up with the 4th or 5th pick, I might actually consider something like Brown, Thompson, Edwards for Wiggins, Wiseman, top 5 pick.  Not sure I'd pull the trigger, but would definitely at least consider it. 

Main Rotation - Walker, Fournier, Smart, Wiggins, Tatum, Wiseman, R. Williams with Nesmith, Langford, Pritchard, and whoever you take at 4 or 5 i.e. Kuminga/Suggs/etc.

Probably not quite as good next year, though not bad, but set up way better for future contention if Wiseman and the rookie develop well.

[Tr1boy]

Brown is going nowhere

I have him higher in team rankings than Tatum

Its not all about talent.  Brown also is fierce

If one must go. Trade Tatum

To phx: Tatum, Edwards, Gwilliams
To bos: Ayton, Bridges, Saric, two 1sts

Trading Tatum would become the worst trade in Celtics history. In the end, he will have more championship titles won then any of the players we would get back in that trade. Brown is great but he is not the end of the game playoffs kind of star who can take over consistently. Maybe keeping both is the better option. I am torn.

Has Tatum shown this?

Against the Raptors or Heat in the playoffs last season... its not like he lit them up.  He was good overall

But against Heat in games 4- 6 and Nets so far. He has struggled against the length of KD

Brown unlikely can be contained... or for too long. He can score on anybody