What have been Danny’s worst trades?

[PAOBoston]

Perk trade hurt us in many different ways

I honestly don’t have an issue with the Perk trade. Issue in the deal wasn’t so much trading Perk but Kristic getting hurt and going down for season and then him bolting for big money to go play to CSSK Moscow in Europe.

[GetLucky]

Perk trade hurt us in many different ways

I honestly don’t have an issue with the Perk trade. Issue in the deal wasn’t so much trading Perk but Kristic getting hurt and going down for season and then him bolting for big money to go play to CSSK Moscow in Europe.

People forget that Danny also got an unprotected 1st rounder from the Clippers in that trade. If David Stern hadn't vetoed Chris Paul to LAL, that would have likely been a lottery pick.

[Roy H.]

The Raef Lafrentz trade was pretty bad

I don’t judge that one that harshly.  We got Delonte with the 1st in that trade, flipped Jiri Welsch for another #1, and used Chris Mills salary to take on Chucky Atkins and add another #1 (Tony Allen).

that was the original trade which was ok because he did well with the late 1st and was able to move Welch for a future 1st (24 - Fernandez) and get the 2005 protections removed (though it would have transferred anyway) and as you say Mills was included in that trade, but Mike James was really why the Pistons gave us a 1st (25 - Allen)

Here is that full trade

Walker, Delk for LaFrentz, Welsh, Mills, future 1st (24 - West)

however the second LaFrentz trade was terrible

LaFrentz, Dickau, 7th pick for Telfair, Ratliff, Future 2nd (48 - Plaisted)

I get that is more of the Telfair trade, but giving up a top 7 pick to unload LaFrentz just to acquire Telfair was a bad move brought about because he acquired LaFrentz to begin with.  And because he realized that moving on from Toine was a mistake, it cost another 1st later on to bring Toine back.

The Ratliff expiring ended up being a valuable asset down the road. So it kinda worked itself out.

Disagree.  Telfair was also in the KG trade, but no one is going to claim he added value.  Just like Ratliff didn't.  Any player would have worked in place of Ratliff, however if that was a better player, maybe Boston can keep Gomes or Green in that trade instead.  You don't get credit for making a terrible trade just because you had a guy end up being expiring contract filler in a later trade.

Of course Ratliff added value, for his expiring contract alone.  That expiring contract is what allowed us to get KG.  The entire point of the deal was to have a large expiring, which were much rarer back then.

Now, would the Twolves have done Brandon Roy + Raef in place of Ratliff?  Probably, yes.  But that gets us roughly to where we were in the first place.  Could we have kept Gomes?  Maybe, if the salary matching worked out. Would keeping Gomes have made a difference?  Probably not, and maybe it leads to some negative roster consequences for the team. Maybe we never add PJ Brown.

[Roy H.]

Perk trade hurt us in many different ways

I honestly don’t have an issue with the Perk trade. Issue in the deal wasn’t so much trading Perk but Kristic getting hurt and going down for season and then him bolting for big money to go play to CSSK Moscow in Europe.

People forget that Danny also got an unprotected 1st rounder from the Clippers in that trade. If David Stern hadn't vetoed Chris Paul to LAL, that would have likely been a lottery pick.

It turned out to be a really bad draft.  We got Fab Melo, right?

Krstic, Fab Melo, and Jeff Green.  I think that I would rather have 2021 Perk than those three.

[Moranis]

The Raef Lafrentz trade was pretty bad

I don’t judge that one that harshly.  We got Delonte with the 1st in that trade, flipped Jiri Welsch for another #1, and used Chris Mills salary to take on Chucky Atkins and add another #1 (Tony Allen).

that was the original trade which was ok because he did well with the late 1st and was able to move Welch for a future 1st (24 - Fernandez) and get the 2005 protections removed (though it would have transferred anyway) and as you say Mills was included in that trade, but Mike James was really why the Pistons gave us a 1st (25 - Allen)

Here is that full trade

Walker, Delk for LaFrentz, Welsh, Mills, future 1st (24 - West)

however the second LaFrentz trade was terrible

LaFrentz, Dickau, 7th pick for Telfair, Ratliff, Future 2nd (48 - Plaisted)

I get that is more of the Telfair trade, but giving up a top 7 pick to unload LaFrentz just to acquire Telfair was a bad move brought about because he acquired LaFrentz to begin with.  And because he realized that moving on from Toine was a mistake, it cost another 1st later on to bring Toine back.

The Ratliff expiring ended up being a valuable asset down the road. So it kinda worked itself out.

Disagree.  Telfair was also in the KG trade, but no one is going to claim he added value.  Just like Ratliff didn't.  Any player would have worked in place of Ratliff, however if that was a better player, maybe Boston can keep Gomes or Green in that trade instead.  You don't get credit for making a terrible trade just because you had a guy end up being expiring contract filler in a later trade.

Of course Ratliff added value, for his expiring contract alone.  That expiring contract is what allowed us to get KG.  The entire point of the deal was to have a large expiring, which were much rarer back then.

Now, would the Twolves have done Brandon Roy + Raef in place of Ratliff?  Probably, yes.  But that gets us roughly to where we were in the first place.  Could we have kept Gomes?  Maybe, if the salary matching worked out. Would keeping Gomes have made a difference?  Probably not, and maybe it leads to some negative roster consequences for the team. Maybe we never add PJ Brown.

But any contract would have been fine or any combination of contracts.  He played 10 games for the Wolves and they cut him when they couldn't trade him at the deadline because no one wanted a 34 year old defensive oriented center with a big contract.  His only purpose was as salary filler.  Literally anyone could have been in that trade.  Ainge doesn't get credit for acquiring a guy, paying him big money for a season to play 2 games, and then including him in a trade the next summer as nothing but salary filler, especially at the expense of a lottery pick. 

And I absolutely believe that LaFrentz plus that draft pick would have allowed Boston to keep someone like Gomes, who very well might have made the difference in the 2009 or 2010 seasons. 

[Roy H.]

The Raef Lafrentz trade was pretty bad

I don’t judge that one that harshly.  We got Delonte with the 1st in that trade, flipped Jiri Welsch for another #1, and used Chris Mills salary to take on Chucky Atkins and add another #1 (Tony Allen).

that was the original trade which was ok because he did well with the late 1st and was able to move Welch for a future 1st (24 - Fernandez) and get the 2005 protections removed (though it would have transferred anyway) and as you say Mills was included in that trade, but Mike James was really why the Pistons gave us a 1st (25 - Allen)

Here is that full trade

Walker, Delk for LaFrentz, Welsh, Mills, future 1st (24 - West)

however the second LaFrentz trade was terrible

LaFrentz, Dickau, 7th pick for Telfair, Ratliff, Future 2nd (48 - Plaisted)

I get that is more of the Telfair trade, but giving up a top 7 pick to unload LaFrentz just to acquire Telfair was a bad move brought about because he acquired LaFrentz to begin with.  And because he realized that moving on from Toine was a mistake, it cost another 1st later on to bring Toine back.

The Ratliff expiring ended up being a valuable asset down the road. So it kinda worked itself out.

Disagree.  Telfair was also in the KG trade, but no one is going to claim he added value.  Just like Ratliff didn't.  Any player would have worked in place of Ratliff, however if that was a better player, maybe Boston can keep Gomes or Green in that trade instead.  You don't get credit for making a terrible trade just because you had a guy end up being expiring contract filler in a later trade.

Of course Ratliff added value, for his expiring contract alone.  That expiring contract is what allowed us to get KG.  The entire point of the deal was to have a large expiring, which were much rarer back then.

Now, would the Twolves have done Brandon Roy + Raef in place of Ratliff?  Probably, yes.  But that gets us roughly to where we were in the first place.  Could we have kept Gomes?  Maybe, if the salary matching worked out. Would keeping Gomes have made a difference?  Probably not, and maybe it leads to some negative roster consequences for the team. Maybe we never add PJ Brown.

But any contract would have been fine or any combination of contracts.  He played 10 games for the Wolves and they cut him when they couldn't trade him at the deadline because no one wanted a 34 year old defensive oriented center with a big contract.  His only purpose was as salary filler.  Literally anyone could have been in that trade.  Ainge doesn't get credit for acquiring a guy, paying him big money for a season to play 2 games, and then including him in a trade the next summer as nothing but salary filler, especially at the expense of a lottery pick. 

And I absolutely believe that LaFrentz plus that draft pick would have allowed Boston to keep someone like Gomes, who very well might have made the difference in the 2009 or 2010 seasons.

Who do you cut for Gomes?

I think you are just misremembering the era, and how expensive it was to shed salary. I mean, the clippers ended up giving the number one pick in the draft to shed salary.

[greg683x]

The Raef Lafrentz trade was pretty bad

I don’t judge that one that harshly.  We got Delonte with the 1st in that trade, flipped Jiri Welsch for another #1, and used Chris Mills salary to take on Chucky Atkins and add another #1 (Tony Allen).

that was the original trade which was ok because he did well with the late 1st and was able to move Welch for a future 1st (24 - Fernandez) and get the 2005 protections removed (though it would have transferred anyway) and as you say Mills was included in that trade, but Mike James was really why the Pistons gave us a 1st (25 - Allen)

Here is that full trade

Walker, Delk for LaFrentz, Welsh, Mills, future 1st (24 - West)

however the second LaFrentz trade was terrible

LaFrentz, Dickau, 7th pick for Telfair, Ratliff, Future 2nd (48 - Plaisted)

I get that is more of the Telfair trade, but giving up a top 7 pick to unload LaFrentz just to acquire Telfair was a bad move brought about because he acquired LaFrentz to begin with.  And because he realized that moving on from Toine was a mistake, it cost another 1st later on to bring Toine back.

The Ratliff expiring ended up being a valuable asset down the road. So it kinda worked itself out.

Disagree.  Telfair was also in the KG trade, but no one is going to claim he added value.  Just like Ratliff didn't.  Any player would have worked in place of Ratliff, however if that was a better player, maybe Boston can keep Gomes or Green in that trade instead.  You don't get credit for making a terrible trade just because you had a guy end up being expiring contract filler in a later trade.

Of course Ratliff added value, for his expiring contract alone.  That expiring contract is what allowed us to get KG.  The entire point of the deal was to have a large expiring, which were much rarer back then.

Now, would the Twolves have done Brandon Roy + Raef in place of Ratliff?  Probably, yes.  But that gets us roughly to where we were in the first place.  Could we have kept Gomes?  Maybe, if the salary matching worked out. Would keeping Gomes have made a difference?  Probably not, and maybe it leads to some negative roster consequences for the team. Maybe we never add PJ Brown.

But any contract would have been fine or any combination of contracts.  He played 10 games for the Wolves and they cut him when they couldn't trade him at the deadline because no one wanted a 34 year old defensive oriented center with a big contract.  His only purpose was as salary filler.  Literally anyone could have been in that trade.  Ainge doesn't get credit for acquiring a guy, paying him big money for a season to play 2 games, and then including him in a trade the next summer as nothing but salary filler, especially at the expense of a lottery pick. 

And I absolutely believe that LaFrentz plus that draft pick would have allowed Boston to keep someone like Gomes, who very well might have made the difference in the 2009 or 2010 seasons.

it was widely known at the time that Theo was acquired for his expiring contract, thats all it was, he wasnt brought here to have any kind of impact as a player.  It was a ticket to get you out of Raefs contract a year early and to have the expiring contract asset Now instead of a year or so down the road.

Minnesota might have taken the Raef contract like you said, but having to pay his 12mil salary for another year likely would have came at a price.  We likely might have had to include Rondo in deal who Minny was pushing for.


***edit - I forget that in this scenario we would have kept the draft pick, likely Roye or Roy so they would have been included in the deal as well, so nevermind about the Rondo part.

[Ogaju]

The ones he did not make.

[Moranis]

The Raef Lafrentz trade was pretty bad

I don’t judge that one that harshly.  We got Delonte with the 1st in that trade, flipped Jiri Welsch for another #1, and used Chris Mills salary to take on Chucky Atkins and add another #1 (Tony Allen).

that was the original trade which was ok because he did well with the late 1st and was able to move Welch for a future 1st (24 - Fernandez) and get the 2005 protections removed (though it would have transferred anyway) and as you say Mills was included in that trade, but Mike James was really why the Pistons gave us a 1st (25 - Allen)

Here is that full trade

Walker, Delk for LaFrentz, Welsh, Mills, future 1st (24 - West)

however the second LaFrentz trade was terrible

LaFrentz, Dickau, 7th pick for Telfair, Ratliff, Future 2nd (48 - Plaisted)

I get that is more of the Telfair trade, but giving up a top 7 pick to unload LaFrentz just to acquire Telfair was a bad move brought about because he acquired LaFrentz to begin with.  And because he realized that moving on from Toine was a mistake, it cost another 1st later on to bring Toine back.

The Ratliff expiring ended up being a valuable asset down the road. So it kinda worked itself out.

Disagree.  Telfair was also in the KG trade, but no one is going to claim he added value.  Just like Ratliff didn't.  Any player would have worked in place of Ratliff, however if that was a better player, maybe Boston can keep Gomes or Green in that trade instead.  You don't get credit for making a terrible trade just because you had a guy end up being expiring contract filler in a later trade.

Of course Ratliff added value, for his expiring contract alone.  That expiring contract is what allowed us to get KG.  The entire point of the deal was to have a large expiring, which were much rarer back then.

Now, would the Twolves have done Brandon Roy + Raef in place of Ratliff?  Probably, yes.  But that gets us roughly to where we were in the first place.  Could we have kept Gomes?  Maybe, if the salary matching worked out. Would keeping Gomes have made a difference?  Probably not, and maybe it leads to some negative roster consequences for the team. Maybe we never add PJ Brown.

But any contract would have been fine or any combination of contracts.  He played 10 games for the Wolves and they cut him when they couldn't trade him at the deadline because no one wanted a 34 year old defensive oriented center with a big contract.  His only purpose was as salary filler.  Literally anyone could have been in that trade.  Ainge doesn't get credit for acquiring a guy, paying him big money for a season to play 2 games, and then including him in a trade the next summer as nothing but salary filler, especially at the expense of a lottery pick. 

And I absolutely believe that LaFrentz plus that draft pick would have allowed Boston to keep someone like Gomes, who very well might have made the difference in the 2009 or 2010 seasons.

Who do you cut for Gomes?

I think you are just misremembering the era, and how expensive it was to shed salary. I mean, the clippers ended up giving the number one pick in the draft to shed salary.

2nd round pick Gabe Pruitt made the team that year.  Scot Pollard signed a 1 year vet min contract after the KG trade.  Brandon Wallace was signed as an undrafted Free Agent (who they thought so little of they cut in December).  And that doesn't even get into Glen Davis being a 2nd round rookie, Leon Powe being a 2nd year PF that wasn't as good as Gomes, and of course PJ Brown being signed in February (to an empty roster spot after Wallace was cut).  The idea that Boston couldn't have kept Gomes on the roster just isn't born in reality. 

And the Clippers trade was Baron Davis and the pick that summer for Mo Williams and Jamario Moon.  Obviously they should have put protection on the pick, but that was a lucky lottery win as the Clippers were like the 8th worst team that year.  Also, Williams was the best player in the trade and while he made about 4 million less than Davis, wasn't exactly underpaid.  So it wasn't just a pure salary dump.  The Clippers did want to get out of Baron Davis, but they did upgrade to Mo Williams.

[nickagneta]

The Perk trade. He traded away the mojo that team had because it really miffed the guys in the locker room. Doc lost that team, at that point. Green came over and was a complete non factor in 2011. Then he had his heart ailment  and disappeared for a year.

It was an awful trade. Ainge should have just let the team go for that chip one more time together and then let Perk walk if Perk got a big, ridiculous offer.

Funny enough, in future years, Ainge let guys walk rather than trade them to get something from the players not returning. Did this trade teach Ainge, sometimes you are better letting teams play things out rather than dumping a guy to get something because you know you won't be bringing the player back at a much higher price? Maybe, maybe not.

[liam]

The Perk trade. He traded away the mojo that team had because it really miffed the guys in the locker room. Doc lost that team, at that point. Green came over and was a complete non factor in 2011. Then he had his heart ailment  and disappeared for a year.

It was an awful trade. Ainge should have just let the team go for that chip one more time together and then let Perk walk if Perk got a big, ridiculous offer.

Funny enough, in future years, Ainge let guys walk.

He did that trade counting on old Shaq. Old Shaq never played in the playoffs. It was a bad miscalculation. That team when Shaq played was great.

[celts10]

The Perk trade. He traded away the mojo that team had because it really miffed the guys in the locker room. Doc lost that team, at that point. Green came over and was a complete non factor in 2011. Then he had his heart ailment  and disappeared for a year.

It was an awful trade. Ainge should have just let the team go for that chip one more time together and then let Perk walk if Perk got a big, ridiculous offer.

Funny enough, in future years, Ainge let guys walk.

He did that trade counting on old Shaq. Old Shaq never played in the playoffs. It was a bad miscalculation. That team when Shaq played was great.

And he also needed a backup wing for Pierce after Marquis Daniels went down for the season with a freak back injury.

[tenn_smoothie]

The 2011 Kendrick Perkins trade can never be defended. It cost us #18.

Bill Simmons wrote a brilliant article about that trade immediately after it happened, if you can find it.

It was the early red flag about Danny being in love with wing players over post players.
And he was crazy to think that the two O'Neals were going to replace what Perk did for that team or even stay healthy enough to try.
Please don't argue with Perk's stats after he was traded away. Meaningless. He was a perfect fit for that Celtics group and filled a vital role for them.
Danny traded away the one advantage we had over the other contenders during that time - physical interior play and a genuine unity among the players.

[DarrenTillis]

The JaJuan Johnson trade.

[Moranis]

The 2011 Kendrick Perkins trade can never be defended. It cost us #18.

Bill Simmons wrote a brilliant article about that trade immediately after it happened, if you can find it.

It was the early red flag about Danny being in love with wing players over post players.
And he was crazy to think that the two O'Neals were going to replace what Perk did for that team or even stay healthy enough to try.
Please don't argue with Perk's stats after he was traded away. Meaningless. He was a perfect fit for that Celtics group and filled a vital role for them.
Danny traded away the one advantage we had over the other contenders during that time - physical interior play and a genuine unity among the players.

The Heat beat Boston 4-1.  Kendrick Perkins was not making that much of a difference in that series.  In fact, they were probably better off without Perkins, because he provided nothing offensively and the Heat had no offensive centers of their own where Perkins defense would have been useful.  And we know this in part because Perkins was completely and utterly ineffective for the Thunder against the Mavs.  He did nothing offensively and couldn't stop Chandler defensively.

It is fun to blame the loss of a title on that trade, but Perkins would have been useless against the Heat and Ainge knew it.  That is why he added a wing (green) and a center that could stretch the floor (krstic).  And everyone knew you were going to have to beat the Heat to win the title that year (Dallas did it, but no Eastern team was close).  The simple reality is that when KG got hurt and then old, Boston's shot at a title disappeared and an old style center like Perkins, who always a role player at best, and was only effective against teams that had traditional centers or big men, didn't alter the chances at all.  That is why he worked fairly well against Bynum/Gasol and the Lakers.  They had traditional big men, but against the Heat, Perkins had no shot of doing anything.