ESPN's 25 Under 25

[seancally]

I'll start by saying I'm not an ESPN Insider, so can't access this year's article. But there is a Hoops Collective podcast (Windhorst, Pelton, Bobby Marks) where they talk about some of the highlights of the rankings. They did list out the top 10:

1. Luka
2. Zion
3. LaMelo Ball (!?!?!)
4. Donovan Mitchell
5. Tatum
6. De'Aaron Fox
7. Ben Simmons
8. Devin Booker
9. Bam Adebayo
10. SGA

Did a lil Google/Reddit searching, can't find the full list. Sounds like Marks had Tatum at No. 13? He of the Nets trade infamy... This is an average of several writers' lists, many had Ball much lower... 3 seems a little aggressive. Tatum should be top 5, but I think he's above Ball and could probably be No. 3. Not sure where Brown falls.

Also, the idea here is future potential weighs a lot. So fine, Ball gets some benefit of the doubt as these writers think he's bound for superstardom. I guess we can debate that. But Ben Simmons... idk... am I wrong to think he is what he is? He hasn't improved dramatically. He hasn't shown the willingness to develop a shot. He's a great player now, All-Star, but I would bet Jaylen Brown to improve more than Simmons over the next 5 years, and today I would rather have Brown.

[Celtics2021]

Brown is at 12 behind Ingram at 11.  They caveat the list as “future potential”, so I suppose if you believe that Ingram, who is a year younger than Jaylen, still might learn to play defense some day you can justify it, because he’s a superior scorer.  But the next time he’s even average on defense will be his first.

And yeah, Marks had Tatum at 13 and Jaylen at 11.  The other two voters (Mike Schmitz and Kevin Pelton) had him 4 and 3.

[wdleehi]

I much rather they vote Brown low.   He seems to take such things personal and really works to prove them wrong.

[seancally]

Brown is at 12 behind Ingram at 11.  They caveat the list as “future potential”, so I suppose if you believe that Ingram, who is a year younger than Jaylen, still might learn to play defense some day you can justify it, because he’s a superior scorer.  But the next time he’s even average on defense will be his first.

And yeah, Marks had Tatum at 13 and Jaylen at 11.  The other two voters (Mike Schmitz and Kevin Pelton) had him 4 and 3.

TP, thanks. These lists I think give bias to the younger, more tantalizing prospects. I think Brown/Ingram ranking is fair but would obviously give the nod to Brown.

Having two players in the top 15 of a list like this is a nice luxury. Especially if you think Tatum is Top 3 and Brown is Top 10.

[seancally]

I much rather they vote Brown low.   He seems to take such things personal and really works to prove them wrong.

Good call, but he's low enough to motivate himself... he's gotta be looking at Ingram and Simmons (his draft classmates) and thinking, "I'm better than those guys and they get all the media love."

[RPGenerate]

LaMelo Ball being that high on the list is absolutely asinine.

[bdm860]

Always fun to compare to prior years.  Here's what I can find:


2020:
1. Luka Doncic
2. Zion Williamson
3. Jayson Tatum
4. Ben Simmons
5. Karl-Anthony Towns
6. Donovan Mitchell
7. Ja Morant
8. Trae Young
9. Brandon Ingram
10. Devin Booker
11. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
12. Bam Adebayo
13. Jaylen Brown
14. De'Angelo Russell
15. De'Aaron Fox
16. Zach Lavine
17. Jaren Jackson Jr.
18. Deandre Ayton
19. Jamal Murray
20. Kristaps Porzingis
21. Jonathan Isaac
22. Domantas Sabonis
23. Michael Porter Jr.
24. John Collins
25. Lonzo Ball


2019:
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Joel Embiid
3. Nikola Jokic
4. Karl-Anthony Towns
5. Ben Simmons
6. Luka Doncic
7. Donovan Mitchell
8. Jayson Tatum
9. De'Aaron Fox
10. Devin Booker
11. Kristaps Porzingis
12. Pascal Siakam
13. D'Angelo Russell
14. Lauri Markkanen
15. Clint Capela
16. Jaren Jackson Jr.
17. Jamal Murray
18. DeAndre Ayton
19. John Collins
20. Jusuf Nurkic
21. Marvin Bagley
22. Caris LaVert
23. Kyle Kuzma
24. Lonzo Ball
25. Jaylen Brown

[PAOBoston]

I honestly don’t think the list is that crazy tbh. If future development is heavily weighted, I can sort of get it. A little surprised by Adebayo being a listed where he was. Maybe a few spots higher in my books but overall I don’t think it’s crazy. I can get why Luka/Zion/Lamelo are rated where they are due to their young age.

[Vermont Green]

1. Luka
2. Zion
3. LaMelo Ball (!?!?!)
4. Donovan Mitchell
5. Tatum
6. De'Aaron Fox
7. Ben Simmons
8. Devin Booker
9. Bam Adebayo
10. SGA

The way I look at this is would I trade Tatum or Brown straight up for a player on the list.  For Tatum, I think he is right there with Doncic and Williamson but definitely above all the others.  So Tatum at 3 is fair to me.

For Brown, it is harder.  I am going to ignore LaMelo Ball.  But Mitchell, Simmons, Fox Ingram; are any of these clearly better in terms of potential than Brown?  Devin Booker to me is pretty equal.  They are almost exactly the same age.  Booker a little more advanced right now, Brown maybe more potential upside.  I don't know about SGA.  He has big numbers on a bad team.  I have not seen enough of him to really know.

When you get to a player like Adebayo, I would consider trading Brown for him due to position or roster balance, but not because I consider him a clearly better player.

I think the Celtics are in pretty good shape in terms of under 25 players.  You could make a "stretch" case that we have 2 in the top 5.  Absolutely we have 2 in the top 10.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Taters is overrated and Brown underrated as usual.

[jambr380]

Taters is overrated and Brown underrated as usual.

I'm literally the one who created the 'Tatum is going to make All-NBA and that sucks for us' thread, but even I acknowledge that he is hardly overrated on this list. I wouldn't take anybody below him; I would definitely take him ahead of Ball; and probably take him ahead of Mitchell. Brown is perennially underrated (and I've gotten used to that), but Tatum is probably slightly underrated on this list, too.

[Moranis]

Taters is overrated and Brown underrated as usual.

I'm literally the one who created the 'Tatum is going to make All-NBA and that sucks for us' thread, but even I acknowledge that he is hardly overrated on this list. I wouldn't take anybody below him; I would definitely take him ahead of Ball; and probably take him ahead of Mitchell. Brown is perennially underrated (and I've gotten used to that), but Tatum is probably slightly underrated on this list, too.

That is because Marks hates Tatum and had him at 13.  The other guys had him at 3 or 4.  He should be 3rd behind Luka and Zion and ahead of everyone else.  I don't even think it is really all that debatable. 

[PhoSita]

lolololol what a troll job

[Jiri Welsch]

Move LaMelo down like 6 spots and I'm fine with the list.

[Yuckabuck33]

Ben Simmons is so overrated by the national media and all who follow it.