ESPN's 25 Under 25

[droopdog7]

I feel like Fox is the one that is way too high.

[Big333223]

I'd have Tatum 3. Having Ball ahead of Tatum and Mitchell when Ball has only played 41 NBA games is crazy.

Zion hasn't played many games either but he's an otherworldly physical presence on the floor and his numbers are incredible. He and Luka are on a tier of their own.

After those two, Tatum edges out Mitchell for me but I wouldn't be mad at someone who disagrees.

[liam]

Ben Simmons is so overrated by the national media and all who follow it.

Simmons could sure prove a lot in the playoffs this year. He's a completely different player in the playoffs so far.

[Vermont Green]

I feel like Fox is the one that is way too high.

Yeah, don't know what they see in him.  Isn't Ja Morant better?  Even Jamal Murray?  Much less some of the others they have him ahead of.

[nickagneta]

My top 10

1. Luka
2. Zion
3. Tatum
4. De'Aaron Fox
5. Donovan Mitchell
6. Jaylen Brown
7. Bam Adebayo
8. Ben Simmons
9. SGA
10. Devin Booker

[Moranis]

I feel like Fox is the one that is way too high.

Yeah, don't know what they see in him.  Isn't Ja Morant better?  Even Jamal Murray?  Much less some of the others they have him ahead of.

No.  I'd have Fox ahead of both of them right now.

[PAOBoston]

My top 10

1. Luka
2. Zion
3. Tatum
4. De'Aaron Fox
5. Donovan Mitchell
6. Jaylen Brown
7. Bam Adebayo
8. Donovan Mitchell
9. SGA
10. Devin Booker

Mitchell is so good he’s on this list twice!

[perks-a-beast]

hard to believe Devin Booker is still under 25, especially since 4 years have passed since he lit us up for 70 points 

[nickagneta]

My top 10

1. Luka
2. Zion
3. Tatum
4. De'Aaron Fox
5. Donovan Mitchell
6. Jaylen Brown
7. Bam Adebayo
8. Donovan Mitchell
9. SGA
10. Devin Booker

Mitchell is so good he’s on this list twice!

Lol. Good catch. When I was cut and pasting them around I forgot to put Simmons back in. I corrected it. TP

[GreenCoffeeBean]

I feel like Fox is the one that is way too high.

Yeah, don't know what they see in him.  Isn't Ja Morant better?  Even Jamal Murray?  Much less some of the others they have him ahead of.

No.  I'd have Fox ahead of both of them right now.

Yeah Fox is a big time defender. You’d think people around here would respect him more after he punked us twice this year. He’s high on my list for a PG I’d want with the Jays.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

I think Zion is too high, but not by much. Ingram should be higher. So should Booker and Murray.

[byennie]

I feel like Fox is the one that is way too high.

Yeah, don't know what they see in him.  Isn't Ja Morant better?  Even Jamal Murray?  Much less some of the others they have him ahead of.

No.  I'd have Fox ahead of both of them right now.

Yeah Fox is a big time defender. You’d think people around here would respect him more after he punked us twice this year. He’s high on my list for a PG I’d want with the Jays.

He is? All of his advanced metrics are poor on that end, he doesn’t rebound, and his steal and block rates are average. What am I missing?

[RodyTur10]

My top 30:

1. Luka Doncic
2. Zion Williamson
3. Jayson Tatum
4. LaMelo Ball
5. Donovan Mitchell
6. Ja Morant
7. Devin Booker
8. Bam Adebayo
9. De'Aaron Fox
10. Trae Young
11. Jaylen Brown
12. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
13. Ben Simmons
14. Brandon Ingram
15. Anthony Edwards
16. Domantas Sabonis
17. Tyrese Haliburton
18. Jamal Murray
19. Michael Porter Jr
20. Robert Williams
21. DeAndre Ayton
22. Darius Garland
23. De'Andre Hunter
24. Collin Sexton
25. RJ Barrett
26. John Collins
27. James Wiseman
28. Tyler Herro
29. Dejounte Murray
30. OG Anunoby

[Muzzy66]

I'll start by saying I'm not an ESPN Insider, so can't access this year's article. But there is a Hoops Collective podcast (Windhorst, Pelton, Bobby Marks) where they talk about some of the highlights of the rankings. They did list out the top 10:

1. Luka
2. Zion
3. LaMelo Ball (!?!?!)
4. Donovan Mitchell
5. Tatum
6. De'Aaron Fox
7. Ben Simmons
8. Devin Booker
9. Bam Adebayo
10. SGA

I don't HATE that list.  I would probably put Tatum above Mitchell, only because I think his upside is a bit higher due to his physical gifts and the versatility they potentially could bring. 

Ball I haven't seen enough of to comment on.   

Fox is good, but he's no way better then Simmons.  I'd have to put Brown over Fox in all honesty, and that's not bias speaking - I just think he has a higher probability of becoming the type of guy you can build a franchise around. 

Wouldn't put Adebayo over Simmons.  He's a very good player, but (last season's fluke finals run aside) I don't think he'll ever be a centerpiece on a championship team. 

Booker I don't think I put over Simmons either.  Elite scorer, but what else does he do?  I'm of the understanding his defence is pretty bad, though in fairness I haven't seen him play for a while.   

Bit surprised that Trae Young isn't on that list to be honest.  As a 22 year old guy who's already got career averages of 24 / 4 / 9  his upside seems absolutely through the roof.  Yeah I know he has some limitations, but is there anybody in this league who wouldn't take Trae over Fox?

Also, the idea here is future potential weighs a lot. So fine, Ball gets some benefit of the doubt as these writers think he's bound for superstardom. I guess we can debate that. But Ben Simmons... idk... am I wrong to think he is what he is? He hasn't improved dramatically. He hasn't shown the willingness to develop a shot. He's a great player now, All-Star, but I would bet Jaylen Brown to improve more than Simmons over the next 5 years, and today I would rather have Brown.

I don't know.  Simmons is hard to put a value on because he's not a big time scorer, so I don't think he's the type of guy who could be the centerpiece of your franchise.  But at the same time he does so much on the court that his overall impact is massive, and that's something that probably needs to be considered. 

He could be the best passing + ball handling big man since Magic Johnson.  He's a strong (if not elite) rebounder by PF/C standards.  He's absolutely deadly on offence in transition.  He is an elite defensive player and could very easily win multiple DPOTY awards before his career is up.  He's a guy who can legitimately play 5 positions on both offence and defence, and can probably do that better then anybody else in the league.

At this point I think you have to move on the assumption that he won't develop a jump shot, and if he does it's a bonus.  Even with that assumption in place he is a hell of an impact player when used the right way, and I think he is the type of guy who could be a key piece on a championship team...but he'd have to have one or two elite scorers alongside him.   

[Ed Monix]

I'll start by saying I'm not an ESPN Insider, so can't access this year's article. But there is a Hoops Collective podcast (Windhorst, Pelton, Bobby Marks) where they talk about some of the highlights of the rankings. They did list out the top 10:

1. Luka
2. Zion
3. LaMelo Ball (!?!?!)
4. Donovan Mitchell
5. Tatum
6. De'Aaron Fox
7. Ben Simmons
8. Devin Booker
9. Bam Adebayo
10. SGA

I don't HATE that list.  I would probably put Tatum above Mitchell, only because I think his upside is a bit higher due to his physical gifts and the versatility they potentially could bring. 

Ball I haven't seen enough of to comment on.   

Fox is good, but he's no way better then Simmons.  I'd have to put Brown over Fox in all honesty, and that's not bias speaking - I just think he has a higher probability of becoming the type of guy you can build a franchise around. 

Wouldn't put Adebayo over Simmons.  He's a very good player, but (last season's fluke finals run aside) I don't think he'll ever be a centerpiece on a championship team. 

Booker I don't think I put over Simmons either.  Elite scorer, but what else does he do?  I'm of the understanding his defence is pretty bad, though in fairness I haven't seen him play for a while.   

Bit surprised that Trae Young isn't on that list to be honest.  As a 22 year old guy who's already got career averages of 24 / 4 / 9  his upside seems absolutely through the roof.  Yeah I know he has some limitations, but is there anybody in this league who wouldn't take Trae over Fox?

Also, the idea here is future potential weighs a lot. So fine, Ball gets some benefit of the doubt as these writers think he's bound for superstardom. I guess we can debate that. But Ben Simmons... idk... am I wrong to think he is what he is? He hasn't improved dramatically. He hasn't shown the willingness to develop a shot. He's a great player now, All-Star, but I would bet Jaylen Brown to improve more than Simmons over the next 5 years, and today I would rather have Brown.

I don't know.  Simmons is hard to put a value on because he's not a big time scorer, so I don't think he's the type of guy who could be the centerpiece of your franchise.  But at the same time he does so much on the court that his overall impact is massive, and that's something that probably needs to be considered. 

He could be the best passing + ball handling big man since Magic Johnson.  He's a strong (if not elite) rebounder by PF/C standards.  He's absolutely deadly on offence in transition.  He is an elite defensive player and could very easily win multiple DPOTY awards before his career is up.  He's a guy who can legitimately play 5 positions on both offence and defence, and can probably do that better then anybody else in the league.

At this point I think you have to move on the assumption that he won't develop a jump shot, and if he does it's a bonus.  Even with that assumption in place he is a hell of an impact player when used the right way, and I think he is the type of guy who could be a key piece on a championship team...but he'd have to have one or two elite scorers alongside him.   

I agree with you on Simmons (except that he is more impactful then Adebayo). As much as I love Jaylen Brown, I would move him for Simmons but I'm doubtful 76ers would entertain a deal. I think it would be a great experiment for both teams, 76ers would improve their spacing and scoring but their playmaking would take a nosedive and even though Brown is a great on ball defender I think their defensive rating would take a hit. Celtics would get a player maker they need and someone who encourages ball movement, Simmons would improve our defence and offensive rebounding but how would we operate in the half court? I'd say we'd need a centre who could space the floor like an Ibaka to counter Simmons non shooting.