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Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 11:48:41 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Unless the voters of All-League Teams are huge Tatum fans I don't see him making any of the three teams this year.

Which six forwards make it?


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Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 11:55:53 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Tatum's skills may have improved, but his effectiveness as a player and his contribution to winning have both declined.

What I saw vs Dallas last nite was atrocious. He had several possessions where he simply dribbled across half-court, never even considered involving his teammates or passing the ball and went 1-on-1 only to chuck one of his step-back 3's. Maybe he has been watching too much James Harden.
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Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2021, 12:32:36 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Unless the voters of All-League Teams are huge Tatum fans I don't see him making any of the three teams this year.

Which six forwards make it?
I think Tatum makes it but I can certainly see arguments for these 8 guys all being more deserving: Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi, Zion, Simmons, Sabonis, Butler, and Randle.  Obviously that would require Simmons and Butler to actually be in the forward category, but I consider them forwards this year (Curry and Green are the starting guards for Philly and I would call Robinson the SG not Butler in Miami).  I think you could also make a case for George, though I don't think he would be likely.  The 8 listed though all could easily make the team ahead of Tatum.  Butler needs to basically play the rest of the year though as he only has 33 games, though Miami is 20-13 with him and just 4-11 without him.  If he doesn't miss many more games it would be hard to keep Butler off a team given his impact to Miami winning.
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Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2021, 02:24:45 AM »

Offline ozgod

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The Athletic's Jay Weiss broke down 2 possessions in the game which exemplify why our offense is having problems. I have a sub to the Athletic and am choosing to share it. I posted the clips on YouTube, here they are:

Quote
First possession - part 1 (10 sec)
https://youtu.be/jqvJnsXhwc0

Here is one of the most embarrassing possessions of the season, a clear sign of Jayson Tatum’s lack of trust or patience with his teammates. On the first offensive play of the second quarter, in a close game, Tatum pounded the air out of the ball for 24 seconds.

Here is the first half of the possession, just to get a feel for the level of stasis in the offense.

Tatum was on the floor with Evan Fournier, the man brought in to bring balance to the offense and take the pressure off Tatum leading the second unit. Then there were rookies Payton Pritchard and Aaron Nesmith, as well as Grant Williams, who for some reason seems to be treated like a sub-rookie no matter how hard he plays.

There is only one moment of importance in this play, and it’s not on the ball. It starts with Williams trailing in for an early drag screen that he slips perfectly to get an open roll into the lane. Tatum should have been ready to thread the pocket pass between the defenders or jump over Maxi Kleber for the overhead pass, the kind of playmaking prowess he was showing earlier this year that feels like a distant memory. By the time he finishes his unnecessary crossover and looks up to see Williams, who is wide open rolling to the rim with no defender underneath, the passing window is closing on him.

That’s fine, Tatum avoided the possible but risky pass with 18 seconds on the shot clock. But then instead of doing the obvious thing and swinging the ball to Fournier so they can run a pick-and-roll and get something going, he decided to settle back into isolation against a strong defender.

Quote
First possession - part 2 (11 sec)
https://youtu.be/PRqn6sMPWLI

As the rest of the team tries to rotate around to stay in his passing lanes and hope he doesn’t do something stupid, Pritchard realizes the play is going nowhere and he does what point guards are supposed to do and ran up to the top of the key to call for the ball.

Watch Brad Stevens in this moment. He waves off Pritchard with nine seconds left on the shot clock, more than enough time for the team to set up multiple actions. But Stevens is going to let Tatum go into his bag, which at least at this point of his career gives him a 50-50 shot at scoring. Of course, Tatum picked up his dribble a step too early when Mavs guard Jalen Brunsson made a halfhearted stunt at him and Tatum bricked a hideous 10-foot floater. Tatum never looked at Fournier.


Quote
Following possession (9 sec)
https://youtu.be/K_lDWmwz-fk

On the next possession, after Doncic bricked a 30-footer early in the clock, Tatum came down in transition as Stevens called a play. Williams set another transition slip screen to pull two defenders off of Tatum, and it looked like Tatum was supposed to catch and attack downhill. But as Tatum turns and stops to square up his defender, you can see Stevens throw out his hands in frustration. Obviously, you know what happens next.

Most players would look at this as an opportunity to get the new guy or the rookie(s) involved and set them up to set him up. There was a time when Tatum seemed to remember that giving up the ball would make it easier to get it back in a position to score. It seems like he needs another reminder.

The full analysis is from https://theathletic.com/2491116/2021/04/01/jayson-tatum-must-change-approach-after-celtics-failed-comeback-against-mavs/

These are only 2 of a number of possessions that Weiss highlighted. This is probably one of the reasons why Hayward left. When things start to go south during Tatum tries to do it all himself. Or if the other team's star starts going off he starts to feel the need to go tit for tat, rather than continuing to move the ball. It's obviously not all his fault, and towards the end of the game he started to play the right way and move the ball around because there was no choice. But there's a clear lack of trust in his teammates which turns him into the selfish Melo type player he used to be, especially if JB is not on the court and with Hayward gone. That part of it is probably because Kemba has been so inconsistent and the bench has been terrible. But it's creating a lack of offensive flow and a lack of a sense of role for his teammates who just sit there and watch him, much like everyone else did when Kyrie was here his last season during the playoffs...watch while Kyrie tries to go 1 v 5. And ultimately Brad has to find a way to rein JT in for his own good and the good of the team.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 02:36:17 AM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2021, 05:18:54 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Grant Williams, who for some reason seems to be treated like a sub-rookie no matter how hard he plays.

This causes Weiss to lose a lot of credibility in my mind.   Grant is horrible.  Stats back this up.  Thanks for sharing.   Now we can sit back and watch these bath robe wearing idiots chase Tatum out of Boston.  We'll go as far as Tatum and Brown take us, it has been that way the last few years.  There is a reason they don't pass to him, they don't trust him.   You never ever hear Brown or Tatum say a good thing about him like they do Pritch and Rob.   Good guy, from all I heard he is a great human being and a  nice teammate but bad player.  These are not the 86 Celtics with a deep talented team.   So all the passing in the world won't save us.

Playing hard does not make you a good player.   It takes much more than effort to be a solid player,  while, it can boost your talent, if you don't have a ton to begin with it won't get you far.   Guys that don't produce during their minutes need to go the way of the do do.

Quote
But there's a clear lack of trust in his teammates which turns him into the selfish Melo type player he used to be, especially if JB is not on the court and with Hayward gone. That part of it is probably because Kemba has been so inconsistent and the bench has been terrible. But it's creating a lack of offensive flow and a lack of a sense of role for his teammates who just sit there and watch him, much like everyone else did when Kyrie was here his last season during the playoffs...watch while Kyrie tries to go 1 v 5. And ultimately Brad has to find a way to rein JT in for his own good and the good of the team.

Tatum isn't the main problem.   It is that the team isn't that good and that is on Danny.   We have half a roster of G league level talent.   We added some during the trade deadline so let's see if it gels.   Ainge needs to get some more talent on this team.  He over reacted with the good guy, culture thing with Kyrie and got some great guys who are dicey players.    I hope Fournier helps in this regard.    Brad isn't controlling anything at this point.  I think he defers to Tatum and Brown.  Smart does whatever he wants.

Our offense is stagnant.   But I would like to propose a different view, a lot of teams have better role players than us that are specialists.   Our guys are generalists, Grant can shoot sometimes but literally brings not much more to the table.  Some have said we have people who don't know their roles.   I would contend that we have guys who are not good at their roles.  Grant does not play a position or have a defined position fit, we play position less ball here.It very bad when we use him at small ball 5 as he can't even hold his own vs. PFs half the time.   Grant is just an example though folks and he plays too many minutes for my taste and does not produce much those minutes but he is not the main problem.   He is in an impossible position  and it isn't his fault.   But Nesmith who we drafted to shoot can't shoot.   Smart is a defensive specialist that thinks he is a shooter.  The list goes on.  CBS plays who he thinks would be best but maybe it is time to put the wings bigs and ballhandlers to rest and get this team a PF!

My son and I think the rest of the league has figured out how to beat us.   They know our plays, figured out CBS and exploit our tendencies and weaknesses.

We have Rob, Tatum and Brown who I believe all still have some growth ahead of them in terms of talent.  Let's not run the talent we have out of town.  Who knows if Nesmith can develop or if Romeo can contribute.   But think the jury is out on Grant, Semi, Carsen, Tacko and Waters.  Sadly, we are probably stuck with Kemba and TT.  So buckle in for a few rough years unless Ainge can pull off a miracle.

Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2021, 08:22:36 AM »

Offline td450

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Quote
Grant Williams, who for some reason seems to be treated like a sub-rookie no matter how hard he plays.

This causes Weiss to lose a lot of credibility in my mind.   Grant is horrible.  Stats back this up.  Thanks for sharing.   Now we can sit back and watch these bath robe wearing idiots chase Tatum out of Boston.  We'll go as far as Tatum and Brown take us, it has been that way the last few years.  There is a reason they don't pass to him, they don't trust him.   You never ever hear Brown or Tatum say a good thing about him like they do Pritch and Rob.   Good guy, from all I heard he is a great human being and a  nice teammate but bad player.  These are not the 86 Celtics with a deep talented team.   So all the passing in the world won't save us.

Playing hard does not make you a good player.   It takes much more than effort to be a solid player,  while, it can boost your talent, if you don't have a ton to begin with it won't get you far.   Guys that don't produce during their minutes need to go the way of the do do.

Quote
But there's a clear lack of trust in his teammates which turns him into the selfish Melo type player he used to be, especially if JB is not on the court and with Hayward gone. That part of it is probably because Kemba has been so inconsistent and the bench has been terrible. But it's creating a lack of offensive flow and a lack of a sense of role for his teammates who just sit there and watch him, much like everyone else did when Kyrie was here his last season during the playoffs...watch while Kyrie tries to go 1 v 5. And ultimately Brad has to find a way to rein JT in for his own good and the good of the team.

Tatum isn't the main problem.   It is that the team isn't that good and that is on Danny.   We have half a roster of G league level talent.   We added some during the trade deadline so let's see if it gels.   Ainge needs to get some more talent on this team.  He over reacted with the good guy, culture thing with Kyrie and got some great guys who are dicey players.    I hope Fournier helps in this regard.    Brad isn't controlling anything at this point.  I think he defers to Tatum and Brown.  Smart does whatever he wants.

Our offense is stagnant.   But I would like to propose a different view, a lot of teams have better role players than us that are specialists.   Our guys are generalists, Grant can shoot sometimes but literally brings not much more to the table.  Some have said we have people who don't know their roles.   I would contend that we have guys who are not good at their roles.  Grant does not play a position or have a defined position fit, we play position less ball here.It very bad when we use him at small ball 5 as he can't even hold his own vs. PFs half the time.   Grant is just an example though folks and he plays too many minutes for my taste and does not produce much those minutes but he is not the main problem.   He is in an impossible position  and it isn't his fault.   But Nesmith who we drafted to shoot can't shoot.   Smart is a defensive specialist that thinks he is a shooter.  The list goes on.  CBS plays who he thinks would be best but maybe it is time to put the wings bigs and ballhandlers to rest and get this team a PF!

My son and I think the rest of the league has figured out how to beat us.   They know our plays, figured out CBS and exploit our tendencies and weaknesses.

We have Rob, Tatum and Brown who I believe all still have some growth ahead of them in terms of talent.  Let's not run the talent we have out of town.  Who knows if Nesmith can develop or if Romeo can contribute.   But think the jury is out on Grant, Semi, Carsen, Tacko and Waters.  Sadly, we are probably stuck with Kemba and TT.  So buckle in for a few rough years unless Ainge can pull off a miracle.

Two points:

1. Grant Williams hasn't been that good, but he is 4 years younger than Semi, and has played somewhat better over the season.

One major criticism I have of Stevens is that when the choice isn't obvious, he doesn't pick someone, give them the role, and let it play out for 10-15 games so that player can acclimate and grow into the position.Players respond better to a role where they know one game to the next what their job is. Williams will never be a star, but he still can improve. Semi is fully baked.

2. When we have one of those games where the team makes an attempt at moving the ball more, the ball still finds its way to Tatum and Brown about the same amount. They still get their shots. The other guys trust them more than they trust themselves and they still defer, but we get the ball movement too.

The trust isn't that Grant will be able to score a lot, its trust that he will keep the play moving and look for Tatum and Brown. That trust should be there.

Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2021, 08:32:57 AM »

Offline td450

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The Athletic's Jay Weiss broke down 2 possessions in the game which exemplify why our offense is having problems. I have a sub to the Athletic and am choosing to share it. I posted the clips on YouTube, here they are:

Quote
First possession - part 1 (10 sec)
https://youtu.be/jqvJnsXhwc0

Here is one of the most embarrassing possessions of the season, a clear sign of Jayson Tatum’s lack of trust or patience with his teammates. On the first offensive play of the second quarter, in a close game, Tatum pounded the air out of the ball for 24 seconds.

Here is the first half of the possession, just to get a feel for the level of stasis in the offense.

Tatum was on the floor with Evan Fournier, the man brought in to bring balance to the offense and take the pressure off Tatum leading the second unit. Then there were rookies Payton Pritchard and Aaron Nesmith, as well as Grant Williams, who for some reason seems to be treated like a sub-rookie no matter how hard he plays.

There is only one moment of importance in this play, and it’s not on the ball. It starts with Williams trailing in for an early drag screen that he slips perfectly to get an open roll into the lane. Tatum should have been ready to thread the pocket pass between the defenders or jump over Maxi Kleber for the overhead pass, the kind of playmaking prowess he was showing earlier this year that feels like a distant memory. By the time he finishes his unnecessary crossover and looks up to see Williams, who is wide open rolling to the rim with no defender underneath, the passing window is closing on him.

That’s fine, Tatum avoided the possible but risky pass with 18 seconds on the shot clock. But then instead of doing the obvious thing and swinging the ball to Fournier so they can run a pick-and-roll and get something going, he decided to settle back into isolation against a strong defender.

Quote
First possession - part 2 (11 sec)
https://youtu.be/PRqn6sMPWLI

As the rest of the team tries to rotate around to stay in his passing lanes and hope he doesn’t do something stupid, Pritchard realizes the play is going nowhere and he does what point guards are supposed to do and ran up to the top of the key to call for the ball.

Watch Brad Stevens in this moment. He waves off Pritchard with nine seconds left on the shot clock, more than enough time for the team to set up multiple actions. But Stevens is going to let Tatum go into his bag, which at least at this point of his career gives him a 50-50 shot at scoring. Of course, Tatum picked up his dribble a step too early when Mavs guard Jalen Brunsson made a halfhearted stunt at him and Tatum bricked a hideous 10-foot floater. Tatum never looked at Fournier.


Quote
Following possession (9 sec)
https://youtu.be/K_lDWmwz-fk

On the next possession, after Doncic bricked a 30-footer early in the clock, Tatum came down in transition as Stevens called a play. Williams set another transition slip screen to pull two defenders off of Tatum, and it looked like Tatum was supposed to catch and attack downhill. But as Tatum turns and stops to square up his defender, you can see Stevens throw out his hands in frustration. Obviously, you know what happens next.

Most players would look at this as an opportunity to get the new guy or the rookie(s) involved and set them up to set him up. There was a time when Tatum seemed to remember that giving up the ball would make it easier to get it back in a position to score. It seems like he needs another reminder.

The full analysis is from https://theathletic.com/2491116/2021/04/01/jayson-tatum-must-change-approach-after-celtics-failed-comeback-against-mavs/

These are only 2 of a number of possessions that Weiss highlighted. This is probably one of the reasons why Hayward left. When things start to go south during Tatum tries to do it all himself. Or if the other team's star starts going off he starts to feel the need to go tit for tat, rather than continuing to move the ball. It's obviously not all his fault, and towards the end of the game he started to play the right way and move the ball around because there was no choice. But there's a clear lack of trust in his teammates which turns him into the selfish Melo type player he used to be, especially if JB is not on the court and with Hayward gone. That part of it is probably because Kemba has been so inconsistent and the bench has been terrible. But it's creating a lack of offensive flow and a lack of a sense of role for his teammates who just sit there and watch him, much like everyone else did when Kyrie was here his last season during the playoffs...watch while Kyrie tries to go 1 v 5. And ultimately Brad has to find a way to rein JT in for his own good and the good of the team.

Some players keep their eyes up, and pass when the opportunity is there, and some guys only pass at certain times in their moves when they expect to make a read on the defense. Tatum is the latter. So is Kemba.

Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2021, 08:39:53 AM »

Offline LilRip

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I don’t think it’s so much that teams have figured us out but more of, it’s just easy to exploit us. Talent-wise, our top end talent should propel us past 500. But the role players around our top end is pretty bad. Sometimes it’s like we’re playing 3-on-5 or 4-on-5 out there. It’s fairly easy to cheat off of Tatum or Brown. Add to that the mental fatigue of our stars and you have a recipe for an underperforming team.

Speaking of stars, remember how last year, it seemed like Tatum was always pressing but when he got named an allstar, his game really blossomed? Part of me can’t help but think it’s had the opposite effect on Brown. Before he was named an allstar, JB was balling like a man on a mission. When it was announced he was an allstar though, he seemed to take his foot off the pedal. Is it just me or is there any truth to this?

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Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2021, 08:54:37 AM »

Offline Yuckabuck33

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The Athletic's Jay Weiss broke down 2 possessions in the game which exemplify why our offense is having problems. I have a sub to the Athletic and am choosing to share it. I posted the clips on YouTube, here they are:

Quote
First possession - part 1 (10 sec)
https://youtu.be/jqvJnsXhwc0

Here is one of the most embarrassing possessions of the season, a clear sign of Jayson Tatum’s lack of trust or patience with his teammates. On the first offensive play of the second quarter, in a close game, Tatum pounded the air out of the ball for 24 seconds.

Here is the first half of the possession, just to get a feel for the level of stasis in the offense.

Tatum was on the floor with Evan Fournier, the man brought in to bring balance to the offense and take the pressure off Tatum leading the second unit. Then there were rookies Payton Pritchard and Aaron Nesmith, as well as Grant Williams, who for some reason seems to be treated like a sub-rookie no matter how hard he plays.

There is only one moment of importance in this play, and it’s not on the ball. It starts with Williams trailing in for an early drag screen that he slips perfectly to get an open roll into the lane. Tatum should have been ready to thread the pocket pass between the defenders or jump over Maxi Kleber for the overhead pass, the kind of playmaking prowess he was showing earlier this year that feels like a distant memory. By the time he finishes his unnecessary crossover and looks up to see Williams, who is wide open rolling to the rim with no defender underneath, the passing window is closing on him.

That’s fine, Tatum avoided the possible but risky pass with 18 seconds on the shot clock. But then instead of doing the obvious thing and swinging the ball to Fournier so they can run a pick-and-roll and get something going, he decided to settle back into isolation against a strong defender.

Quote
First possession - part 2 (11 sec)
https://youtu.be/PRqn6sMPWLI

As the rest of the team tries to rotate around to stay in his passing lanes and hope he doesn’t do something stupid, Pritchard realizes the play is going nowhere and he does what point guards are supposed to do and ran up to the top of the key to call for the ball.

Watch Brad Stevens in this moment. He waves off Pritchard with nine seconds left on the shot clock, more than enough time for the team to set up multiple actions. But Stevens is going to let Tatum go into his bag, which at least at this point of his career gives him a 50-50 shot at scoring. Of course, Tatum picked up his dribble a step too early when Mavs guard Jalen Brunsson made a halfhearted stunt at him and Tatum bricked a hideous 10-foot floater. Tatum never looked at Fournier.


Quote
Following possession (9 sec)
https://youtu.be/K_lDWmwz-fk

On the next possession, after Doncic bricked a 30-footer early in the clock, Tatum came down in transition as Stevens called a play. Williams set another transition slip screen to pull two defenders off of Tatum, and it looked like Tatum was supposed to catch and attack downhill. But as Tatum turns and stops to square up his defender, you can see Stevens throw out his hands in frustration. Obviously, you know what happens next.

Most players would look at this as an opportunity to get the new guy or the rookie(s) involved and set them up to set him up. There was a time when Tatum seemed to remember that giving up the ball would make it easier to get it back in a position to score. It seems like he needs another reminder.

The full analysis is from https://theathletic.com/2491116/2021/04/01/jayson-tatum-must-change-approach-after-celtics-failed-comeback-against-mavs/

These are only 2 of a number of possessions that Weiss highlighted. This is probably one of the reasons why Hayward left. When things start to go south during Tatum tries to do it all himself. Or if the other team's star starts going off he starts to feel the need to go tit for tat, rather than continuing to move the ball. It's obviously not all his fault, and towards the end of the game he started to play the right way and move the ball around because there was no choice. But there's a clear lack of trust in his teammates which turns him into the selfish Melo type player he used to be, especially if JB is not on the court and with Hayward gone. That part of it is probably because Kemba has been so inconsistent and the bench has been terrible. But it's creating a lack of offensive flow and a lack of a sense of role for his teammates who just sit there and watch him, much like everyone else did when Kyrie was here his last season during the playoffs...watch while Kyrie tries to go 1 v 5. And ultimately Brad has to find a way to rein JT in for his own good and the good of the team.

Some players keep their eyes up, and pass when the opportunity is there, and some guys only pass at certain times in their moves when they expect to make a read on the defense. Tatum is the latter. So is Kemba.

I cant stand the way Tatum drives with his head down watching the ball!!! We're talking about basketball fundamentals here.

Of course, I don't think he's the superstar he thinks he is yet. I remember hearing when the NBA was shut down last year, somebody else had to buy him a hoop so he could maintain his game. I don't think this kid has the drive to win like a Russell, Bird or Pierce.

Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2021, 09:11:53 AM »

Offline td450

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I don’t think it’s so much that teams have figured us out but more of, it’s just easy to exploit us. Talent-wise, our top end talent should propel us past 500. But the role players around our top end is pretty bad. Sometimes it’s like we’re playing 3-on-5 or 4-on-5 out there. It’s fairly easy to cheat off of Tatum or Brown. Add to that the mental fatigue of our stars and you have a recipe for an underperforming team.

Speaking of stars, remember how last year, it seemed like Tatum was always pressing but when he got named an allstar, his game really blossomed? Part of me can’t help but think it’s had the opposite effect on Brown. Before he was named an allstar, JB was balling like a man on a mission. When it was announced he was an allstar though, he seemed to take his foot off the pedal. Is it just me or is there any truth to this?

Its just you.

Brown is the only player on the team showing a willingness to adjust to what the team needs. I see no evidence that Walker, Smart or Tatum has sacrificed anything to make the team work. Jaylen is clearly trying to pass more. He's also been dealing with nagging injuries since before he was named to the all-star team.

I think the guy is playing hard and is trying to make things work.

Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2021, 10:13:03 AM »

Offline Big333223

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I hope Tatum does make All NBA. I think he's earned it and I like seeing guys on my favorite team getting rewarded.
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Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2021, 10:36:43 AM »

Offline Rondo9

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I hope Tatum does make All NBA. I think he's earned it and I like seeing guys on my favorite team getting rewarded.

I have to admit Celticsblog is the only website that sees their own player making an All NBA team as a bad thing. All the other sports websites even Celtics sties would be ecstatic to see a player who represents their team achieve a huge accomplishment, but not Celticsblog. I know the year has been inconsistent to say the least but is it too much to be happy if he makes it?

Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2021, 11:41:55 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Putting aside whether we wnat him to make it, I dont think its like a lock or anything.

Giannis
Kawhi
Zion
Lebron

I view those 4 as locks. Even with Lebron's injury he isnt falling out. Giannis and Kawhi are obvious. Zion has been historic. After that it gets more complicated. In consideration are

Davis
George
Butler
Randle
Durant

I think quite honestly Butler will make it comfortably ahead of Tatum. I know people consider Tatum's stats "better," but Butler's advanced Metrics are comfortably ahead of Tatum this year so far. He's second in 538's RAPTOR and ESPN RPM among SF. Tatum is 10th and 7th among small forwards and the people who vote for All-NBA tend to be stat nerds.

SO then the question is if one of that group leaps ahead of him. Randle straight up has an argument, the teams will likely end will similar records, similar if not slightly better advanced metrics for Randle, but Tatum is more famous and scoring more points. George if he's a SF will absolutely get that last spot, he was a SG for all star voting but I'm not really sure why. The guard position is pretty stacked with Irving/Harden/Lillard/Curry/Beal/Doncic all pretty hard to leave off so voters may make it easier for themselves and make George a Forward. Durant and Davis have injury issues but you never know, people do sometimes resort to the big name if they can't decide.

So we'll see. My guess if voting was today:

Giannis
Lebron

Kawhi
Zion

Butler
George

Randle vs Tatum for first "cut."

Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2021, 02:59:14 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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I know it shouldn't matter, but how we finish out the year could be what keeps him off the team. If we flounder and stay in the 7-8 seed range, he might not make it. If we fight the Heat for the 4-5 to end the year, he probably makes the team.
#JKJB

Re: Jayson Tatum is likely going to make All-NBA...
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2021, 03:32:18 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I hope Tatum does make All NBA. I think he's earned it and I like seeing guys on my favorite team getting rewarded.

I have to admit Celticsblog is the only website that sees their own player making an All NBA team as a bad thing. All the other sports websites even Celtics sties would be ecstatic to see a player who represents their team achieve a huge accomplishment, but not Celticsblog. I know the year has been inconsistent to say the least but is it too much to be happy if he makes it?

You are leaving out a lot of factors with this argument. Of course on the surface you want your home team players to be rewarded for their achievements. But, there is almost no way he would make it if AD and/or Durant had stayed healthy. That, along with the fact that the Cs are firmly mediocre this season, isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for Tatum as a player.
 
Obviously I would be fully cheering him on if his contract wasn't tied to all or nothing 25%/30%, but that extra $6M/yr that Tatum will possibly be getting - that he doesn't [currently] deserve - may very well limit what the Cs can do in terms of building up their roster in the future.

Please know that I want nothing more than Tatum to be one of the top players in this league and to be rewarded for it justly. There is still plenty of time for Tatum and the Cs to prove themselves and it's not like I am going to be rooting for him to suck each game.