Danny or Brad?

[SHAQATTACK]

I think it's a top heavy and very young roster.  I think Danny should have anticipated that the team would struggle more this year due to Kemba's recovery, fatigue among the top players following a deep playoff run and a short off-season, and the departure of guys who were important in the rotation last year.

Danny shouldn't have banked on adding help halfway through the season.  Bigger picture, the team has had a talent drain several seasons running.  Some of that is a result of the young stars getting paid and taking over the biggest roles on the team, which coincided with higher paid guys leaving to get money and shots elsewhere. 

Still, it's Danny's job to avoid allowing the roster get stuck with too many young guys or getting boxed in by the salary / luxury tax.  He has not done a very good job of that in recent years.

TP

[Bobshot]

I think changes are needed. Ainge and Stevens have both been around too long. Ainge for one hasn't made a good trade for ages, and Stevens' teams seem to lack consistency--a sign that they lack discipline and don't know their roles--if they have been given any. The Celtics have evolved into a very Un-Celtic team. Not as bad as the Gaston era teams, but not as good as the pre-Gaston teams and those Ainge teams coached by Doc Rivers. The decline was deliberate in a sense, since the team had to rebuild because of cost constraints.

Ainge has been too conservative in his trading and FA approaches in recent years, and it has cost him. Rival GMs have been much more aggressive and have improved their teams more.  It appears the coach has been given a free reign to do as he pleases, over the years, and was more successful early on with lesser teams. He also was given a lucrative long term contract, recently extended,  without any prior NBA coaching experience. That has not been a formula for coaching success in the NBA. They might have been better off with a McHale or other Celtics alumnus who was familiar with the Celtics formula for winning. Rather than a coach who was confined to what worked for him in college.

So where does the ownership stand on all this? My impression is there isn't much concern--there is little pressure to win. Wyc has his title.  It's now simply a question of fielding a good enough product to put fans in the seats. TV revenue takes care of itself.

[nickagneta]

I think changes are needed. Ainge and Stevens have both been around too long. Ainge for one hasn't made a good trade for ages, and Stevens' teams seem to lack consistency--a sign that they lack discipline and don't know their roles--if they have been given any. The Celtics have evolved into a very Un-Celtic team. Not as bad as the Gaston era teams, but not as good as the pre-Gaston teams and those Ainge teams coached by Doc Rivers. The decline was deliberate in a sense, since the team had to rebuild because of cost constraints.

Ainge has been too conservative in his trading and FA approaches in recent years, and it has cost him. Rival GMs have been much more aggressive and have improved their teams more.  It appears the coach has been given a free reign to do as he pleases, over the years, and was more successful early on with lesser teams. He also was given a lucrative long term contract, recently extended,  without any prior NBA coaching experience. That has not been a formula for coaching success in the NBA. They might have been better off with a McHale or other Celtics alumnus who was familiar with the Celtics formula for winning. Rather than a coach who was confined to what worked for him in college.

So where does the ownership stand on all this? My impression is there isn't much concern--there is little pressure to win. Wyc has his title.  It's now simply a question of fielding a good enough product to put fans in the seats. TV revenue takes care of itself.

I don't get the trade comment about not having a good one in ages.

IT trade.
Kyrie trade.
Fournier trade.

All really good trades. It's not like the Brooklyn trade was his last good trade.

[GreenlyGreeny]

There is no excuse for the Celtics to be 23-24 and fighting for the 7th/8th seed, even with Kemba/Smart missing games.

I think this is on Brad.  He knows these guys and doesn't have them ready on game night.

Danny handed him a horrible bench. Perhaps the worst in the league. No coach, except Pops, could do better with this crew.

[GreenlyGreeny]

1) The Players (although some of this has been out of their control.  See Covid)

2) Danny

3) Brad

This. Although since Danny ultimately picks the players, first place may be a tie.

[gouki88]

1) The Players (although some of this has been out of their control.  See Covid)

2) Danny

3) Brad

This. Although since Danny ultimately picks the players, first place may be a tie.

Danny has no control over player effort though

[Ogaju]

1) The Players (although some of this has been out of their control.  See Covid)

2) Danny

3) Brad

This. Although since Danny ultimately picks the players, first place may be a tie.

Danny has no control over player effort though

A three way tie then?

[gouki88]

1) The Players (although some of this has been out of their control.  See Covid)

2) Danny

3) Brad

This. Although since Danny ultimately picks the players, first place may be a tie.

Danny has no control over player effort though

A three way tie then?

I'm happy to blame them all equally

[Celtics4ever]

Danny has no control over player effort though

Will guys put forth 100% effort if they think there is not chance of winning with the talent around them though?

Can coaches really make guys play hard?   That comes internally.  Grown ups and adults tend to not be as coachable and youngsters.   This is true as you go up the ranks.

[Who]

(1) Bad luck -- disruptions due to injuries & Covid.
(2) Ainge -- not enough quality depth, too much low level early stage of development youth & work in progress youth beyond that. This only exacerbated & further exposed the problem of injuries of injuries & Covid.

This is not about firing Ainge. It is about recognizing the mistake and fixing the mistake. Ainge is part of the solution moving forward. He is a terrific GM.

Stevens has a little to do with it but not much and I'd say the same for the players.

[Moranis]

This is clearly an Ainge problem and has been for years.  The team quite simply hasn't been good enough and none of the ECF teams should have been there.  They were because the coach is excellent.  Period.  The roster is a mess and has been for years. 

[spikelovetheCelts]

When you build a super team in Brooklyn, No way Boston can compete this year with that team.
Danny had no control over that move.  We will rise with the talent we have. Fournier will help. Kemba's health will too.Time Lord looks good as well.  If we play the Bucks or Philly in round 1 think we can win and with play the other in the second i think we can make the ECF again. Brad was out coached by the Heat but he out coached. I think he can out think Doc and Bud as well, IMO. Talent will cost him against the Nets. But the Jays will grow and how many 24 year old players lead a team to a championship, anyway.
CALL me crazy but I think Kemba is going to have Playoff magic.

[Moranis]

When you build a super team in Brooklyn, No way Boston can compete this year with that team.
Danny had no control over that move.  We will rise with the talent we have. Fournier will help. Kemba's health will too.Time Lord looks good as well.  If we play the Bucks or Philly in round 1 think we can win and with play the other in the second i think we can make the ECF again. Brad was out coached by the Heat but he out coached. I think he can out think Doc and Bud as well, IMO. Talent will cost him against the Nets. But the Jays will grow and how many 24 year old players lead a team to a championship, anyway.
CALL me crazy but I think Kemba is going to have Playoff magic.

except Ainge could in fact have acquired Harden, not only stopping the super team in Brooklyn, but also making Boston the favorites to at least come out of the East.

[spikelovetheCelts]

When you build a super team in Brooklyn, No way Boston can compete this year with that team.
Danny had no control over that move.  We will rise with the talent we have. Fournier will help. Kemba's health will too.Time Lord looks good as well.  If we play the Bucks or Philly in round 1 think we can win and with play the other in the second i think we can make the ECF again. Brad was out coached by the Heat but he out coached. I think he can out think Doc and Bud as well, IMO. Talent will cost him against the Nets. But the Jays will grow and how many 24 year old players lead a team to a championship, anyway.
CALL me crazy but I think Kemba is going to have Playoff magic.

except Ainge could in fact have acquired Harden, not only stopping the super team in Brooklyn, but also making Boston the favorites to at least come out of the East.

Harden wanted to go to Nets. He would not be happy if he was forced here.

[nickagneta]

When you build a super team in Brooklyn, No way Boston can compete this year with that team.
Danny had no control over that move.  We will rise with the talent we have. Fournier will help. Kemba's health will too.Time Lord looks good as well.  If we play the Bucks or Philly in round 1 think we can win and with play the other in the second i think we can make the ECF again. Brad was out coached by the Heat but he out coached. I think he can out think Doc and Bud as well, IMO. Talent will cost him against the Nets. But the Jays will grow and how many 24 year old players lead a team to a championship, anyway.
CALL me crazy but I think Kemba is going to have Playoff magic.

except Ainge could in fact have acquired Harden, not only stopping the super team in Brooklyn, but also making Boston the favorites to at least come out of the East.

Harden wanted to go to Nets. He would not be happy if he was forced here.

And if traded here and had to work with the awful bench and mostly youth, he would have soured early and been gone as soon as he could have.

Exchanging Harden for Brown doesn't make this a championship team and Harden, because of this, would leave Boston as fast as possible making the trade a net negative all around move.

And let's not discount Harden's personal life. He loves his late nights out at clubs. Boston isn't that type of town. Add that to any dissatisfaction Harden would have had with the team and it's most likely Harden would have forced his way out of here next year or wait and go the year after that.

Better to have been conservative here and pass on that deal.