Author Topic: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?  (Read 6401 times)

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Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Can someone please explain why they think we should “fire Brad” when he’s not the one who created this abomination of a roster? Let’s not forget that Brad is such a good coach, he took a rookie Tatum, second year Brown, Smart and Horford to seven games in the ECF against LeBron. 3 ECFs in the past 5 years with deficient rosters. Let’s not forget he is such a good coach he was one shot away from beating a behemoth Duke squad in the NCAA national championship game while coaching then-unknown Butler. That was basically the David Vs. Goliath basketball match of the 2010s, and he almost did it. Then he lost his best player to the NBA and still coached Butler back to the last dance in the tourney. Back-to-back NCAA Finals appearances coaching Butler! With this horrid roster, we’re lucky to be near .500 (because of Stevens, not in spite of him).

We have literally the best basketball coach in the world who is under 45 years old (other than Pops, Coach K and maybe Tony Bennett, there is not a coach alive who is not retired and better than Stevens). And we have a ludicrously overrated GM who delivered one title in 18 years. Free agents have wanted to finally come to Boston because of Stevens, not Ainge. They probably leave because of Ainge? Ever considered that? So what’s the deal here?

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2021, 12:01:21 AM »

Online Jiri Welsch

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I agree. Brad's not perfect by any means, but this mess was made - and is being maintained - by Danny.

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2021, 12:21:59 AM »

Offline gouki88

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1/18 is better than 0/8 ;)
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2021, 12:22:40 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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One title in 18 years and a second Finals appearance.

Plus how many playoff series wins?

How many Eastern Conference Finals appearances?

The Celtics are a second tier, cold weather market team in a city with zero night life and a bad reputation for racial dynamics playing in a league with players who care about those things.

What the franchise has accomplished decades in the past has little to nothing to do with the challenges it faces in the modern NBA.

All of that said, Danny Ainge has not done such a great job the past couple of years. Plenty of bad luck, sure. But also ... Not great.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2021, 12:35:39 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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One title in 18 years and a second Finals appearance.

Plus how many playoff series wins?

How many Eastern Conference Finals appearances?

The Celtics are a second tier, cold weather market team in a city with zero night life and a bad reputation for racial dynamics playing in a league with players who care about those things.

What the franchise has accomplished decades in the past has little to nothing to do with the challenges it faces in the modern NBA.

All of that said, Danny Ainge has not done such a great job the past couple of years. Plenty of bad luck, sure. But also ... Not great.

Zero night life?

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2021, 12:54:35 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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One title in 18 years and a second Finals appearance.

Plus how many playoff series wins?

How many Eastern Conference Finals appearances?

The Celtics are a second tier, cold weather market team in a city with zero night life and a bad reputation for racial dynamics playing in a league with players who care about those things.

What the franchise has accomplished decades in the past has little to nothing to do with the challenges it faces in the modern NBA.

All of that said, Danny Ainge has not done such a great job the past couple of years. Plenty of bad luck, sure. But also ... Not great.

Zero night life?


The T stops at midnight and most of the town shuts down by 2
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2021, 02:57:38 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

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Can someone please explain why they think we should “fire Brad”

Marcus Smart is one of the worst shooters at the guard spot I've ever seen.  He ranks 4th on the team in 3PA rate.  Tonight he took 10 threes.  Any coach with the slightest semblance of a pair of balls would have sent him to the bench half way through the game. 

This is not a one off situation.  Smart has been playing like this for years.  He did it in the playoffs too, numerous times.  Tatum and Brown have also had a number of games this year where they just went downright wild chucking horrible threes.

They keep doing it because Brad has ZERO control over the team.  Guys just do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want and there's no discipline or punishment for it.  The team plays garbage and loses by 15 points to a lottery team and all Brad can say is things like "I give that team credit, they played hard".

I get it, hes a nice guy and he's patient - which are great characteristic to have with young, inexperienced prospects because it helps to build their confidence.  But you can't be the nice, patient guy all the time.  This league is full of elevated egos, and you need to have a bit of that junk yard dog on you to be able to keep those egos in check, and it really seems Brad just doesn't have that.  Now that Tatum and Brown are transitioning into stars their egos are growing, and it seems Brad just gives in and lets them do whatever they want (that includes Smart).   

They need a coach who is willing to bring out the wooden spoon and discipline guys when they act up. Someone with the balls to bench key players if they go rogue and don't do what they're supposed to.  I just don't think Brad has that in him.

Also lets be fair to Danny - the Big 3 era could just as easily brought three titles if the Celtics didn't get it with unfortunate injuries at critical times.  Celtics had the edge of LA before Perk went down for the series, and they would have likely made it to the Finals a third time if KG didn't get hurt.  He built those teams well, but bad luck happens. 

How many GM's in this league over the past 18 seasons have one more than 1 title?  I suspect that the list would be pretty small.   

Danny Ainge:
  • Had only two picks in the top three and picked Tatum and Brown - picks that a lot of people were critical of.  Now both guys are averaging 25 PPG and looking like future superstars.
  • Had only one other pick in the top 10 (Marcus Smart at #6) and he's made multiple All-Defensive teams.
  • He drafted Terry Rozier at #16, and he looks like a borderline All-Star putting up 20/4/3 on 47% / 42% / 85% shooting in Charlotee
  • He drafted Robert Williams and Payton Pritchard at #27/#26 and both are looking like they will be become quality rotation players (maybe even starters) in this league
  • He brought Theis in out of nowhere from Germany, and he was the starting center on an ECF team last year.
  • He also took a huge gamble on Isaiah Thomas who was viewed as a nobody / gimmick by most people, but went on to make two All-Star games and almost led the league in scoring as a Celtic.
  • He took a similar gamble on Jae Crowder who was an absolute nobody until he came to Boston and established himself as a quality starter.


Philly intentionally tanked for several years and I'd argue they still weren't much (if any) more successful.  it's clear Ainge has an eye for talent. 

In addition to that, he also turned the Celtics from a Playoff team, to a complete rebuild, to a playoff team again all in the space of about 3 seasons.  That's almost unheard of.

He managed to move a 5'7" injured PG for a borderline superstar in Kyrie Irving - sure it didn't work out because Kyrie was a head case, but still a hell of a ballsy move. 

He also managed to sign three All-Stars (Al Horford, Gordon Hayward and Kemba Walker) in the space of about 4 years to a Boston team that people insisted was incapable of attracting quality free agents.   

Hayward unfortunately suffered a grusome injury in the first game of the season that wrote him off for like 2 or his 4 years - unfathomable bad luck that no GM could have predicted.  Had Hayward been healthy, who knows how far the Celtics cold have gone.  Then Kemba suffered injuries of his own which significantly impacted his performance last season a season where the Celtics made the ECF.  Again, not Danny's fault.

Sure he has made some mistakes.  Passed on some deals that in hindsight he probably should have made.  But no GM is perfect.  Looking at everything I just described, I think that's a hell of an impressive 4 or 5 year record for an NBA General Manager, and I find it pretty difficult to be critical of him all things considered.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 03:29:44 AM by Muzzy66 »

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2021, 03:23:01 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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The only way to “discipline” this generation of NBA players is to trade them when they don’t do what must be done to win. Stevens has no authority to trade anybody. One of the reasons why I want Brown gone is because Tatum clearly wants to play with Beal, who’s a free agent next year, and I do not think Brown and Tatum complement each other well. They’re both just trying to be “the man” nowadays, with Smart just trying to get more threes so he can get a good contract next year. I don’t blame the latter. I can’t stand the former. There is no I in team. Hand the entire keyset to Tatum and let him bring in his buddy Beal in a year. Get Mobley or Cunningham for Brown, so we’ve got an actual shot at a Big 3 in three years rather than continuing with whatever the heck this is. Smart to a contender for a future first or two would be excellent. Heck, send Brown packing and see if there’s a way Beal can force a trade now rather than later, with Smart, TT and another piece being the return for WAS since they’re going to lose him in a year no matter what.

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2021, 03:24:16 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Probably worth saying that only 9 teams out of 30 have won a championship in the past 18 years.  And only 12 have been to the Finals. Dominated (of course) by teams with Top 5 players.     Danny has 1 Championship and 1 Finals appearance while 18 teams have zero.  Point being that the stat in the thread title is not, in and of itself, the proof of failure it seems to be attempting to indicate.

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2021, 03:43:19 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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 The first few years of Danny's tenure were spent brilliantly reversing the disaster of the previous management, culminating in the KG and Ray Allen acquisitions. And after the Celtics' 2008 title there have been 12 NBA champions:
Steroid King James - 4 (one with the league-favored Lakers)
Warriors - 3
Kobe - 2 (both on the league-favored Lakers)
Kawhi - 2 (one with Duncan)
Dirk - 1

What should Ainge have done to beat those teams above? The KG injury and decline hurt us badly early on. Later he acquired Kyrie, Horford, Hayward, and Kemba, and drafted Tatum, Brown, and Time Lord.

Now if you want to say that Ainge should have gambled on Kawhi and traded Brown for him, that is a fair second-guess. But otherwise? Ainge had a dynasty set up with Hayward, Irving, Horford, Tatum, and Brown. The Hayward injury upended the roster dynamic and Kyrie had a mental breakdown. We lost our shot at Davis and now we are where we are.

I'm curious as to what the alternate route would have been.

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2021, 03:43:34 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

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The only way to “discipline” this generation of NBA players is to trade them when they don’t do what must be done to win.

That's not true at all.  The coach is the one who sets gameplans and rotations - that gives him all the power to tell his players how they should be playing, and to allocate playing time based on who actually listens.

If the coach tells Marcus Smart he should move the ball and only take good shots, and then Smart goes out and takes 10 threes, he should either have his minutes cut or he should be benched. If the coach doesn't have the balls to do that because he's too worried about upsetting people then no team he coaches will ever win a championship - period.  This team's aspirations for the past few years have been 100% about winning a championship, so firing the coach makes total sense.

If the coach DIDN'T tell Marcus Smart that he should move the ball and only take good shots, then he's not teaching his players properly, so he should be fired anyway. 

Either way, when you have guys like Smart / Tatum / Brown forcing multiple bad threes seemingly every second day then you either aren't teaching your players right, or they just aren't listening to you.  Either way it's a problem for a team that has Finals/Championship aspirations. 

Do you think Smart would be playing 37 minutes on a night where he chucked 10 threes if he was playing under Phil Jackson, Doc Rivers, Jerry Sloan or Greg Popovich?  Not a chance.

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2021, 07:15:01 AM »

Offline 0003323344

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The only way to “discipline” this generation of NBA players is to trade them when they don’t do what must be done to win.

That's not true at all.  The coach is the one who sets gameplans and rotations - that gives him all the power to tell his players how they should be playing, and to allocate playing time based on who actually listens.

If the coach tells Marcus Smart he should move the ball and only take good shots, and then Smart goes out and takes 10 threes, he should either have his minutes cut or he should be benched. If the coach doesn't have the balls to do that because he's too worried about upsetting people then no team he coaches will ever win a championship - period.  This team's aspirations for the past few years have been 100% about winning a championship, so firing the coach makes total sense.

If the coach DIDN'T tell Marcus Smart that he should move the ball and only take good shots, then he's not teaching his players properly, so he should be fired anyway. 

Either way, when you have guys like Smart / Tatum / Brown forcing multiple bad threes seemingly every second day then you either aren't teaching your players right, or they just aren't listening to you.  Either way it's a problem for a team that has Finals/Championship aspirations. 

Do you think Smart would be playing 37 minutes on a night where he chucked 10 threes if he was playing under Phil Jackson, Doc Rivers, Jerry Sloan or Greg Popovich?  Not a chance.

Yep that's actually how I feel about Stevens. He is a good college coach but average at the NBA level. He doesn't seem hands on with his players and shows no fire at all on the court. Rah rah doesn't cut it in the NBA. I honestly think he has lost this team and they aren't listentng to him much especially when I see Smart chucking 3's at crunch time.

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2021, 07:43:08 AM »

Offline seancally

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One title in 18 years and a second Finals appearance.

Plus how many playoff series wins?

How many Eastern Conference Finals appearances?

The Celtics are a second tier, cold weather market team in a city with zero night life and a bad reputation for racial dynamics playing in a league with players who care about those things.

What the franchise has accomplished decades in the past has little to nothing to do with the challenges it faces in the modern NBA.

All of that said, Danny Ainge has not done such a great job the past couple of years. Plenty of bad luck, sure. But also ... Not great.

Zero night life?


The T stops at midnight and most of the town shuts down by 2

Anyone ever seen these dudes on the T?
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2021, 07:46:31 AM »

Offline gouki88

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One title in 18 years and a second Finals appearance.

Plus how many playoff series wins?

How many Eastern Conference Finals appearances?

The Celtics are a second tier, cold weather market team in a city with zero night life and a bad reputation for racial dynamics playing in a league with players who care about those things.

What the franchise has accomplished decades in the past has little to nothing to do with the challenges it faces in the modern NBA.

All of that said, Danny Ainge has not done such a great job the past couple of years. Plenty of bad luck, sure. But also ... Not great.

Zero night life?


The T stops at midnight and most of the town shuts down by 2

Anyone ever seen these dudes on the T?
Trying to imagine Tacko on it
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: One Title in 18 Years and You Think Stevens is The One Who Should Go?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2021, 07:49:34 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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Can someone please explain why they think we should “fire Brad” when he’s not the one who created this abomination of a roster? Let’s not forget that Brad is such a good coach, he took a rookie Tatum, second year Brown, Smart and Horford to seven games in the ECF against LeBron. 3 ECFs in the past 5 years with deficient rosters. Let’s not forget he is such a good coach he was one shot away from beating a behemoth Duke squad in the NCAA national championship game while coaching then-unknown Butler. That was basically the David Vs. Goliath basketball match of the 2010s, and he almost did it. Then he lost his best player to the NBA and still coached Butler back to the last dance in the tourney. Back-to-back NCAA Finals appearances coaching Butler! With this horrid roster, we’re lucky to be near .500 (because of Stevens, not in spite of him).

We have literally the best basketball coach in the world who is under 45 years old (other than Pops, Coach K and maybe Tony Bennett, there is not a coach alive who is not retired and better than Stevens). And we have a ludicrously overrated GM who delivered one title in 18 years. Free agents have wanted to finally come to Boston because of Stevens, not Ainge. They probably leave because of Ainge? Ever considered that? So what’s the deal here?

   I have problems with both these guys but I don’t judge either on “only 1 title” or “ no titles” .