(Update) Celtics NOT favorites to land Aaron Gordon

[Vermont Green]

If we get Fournier included in a deal for Gordon, that would be great, but he would be brought in as a wing off the bench, not a PG.  There may be certain line ups that come up but it would be a mistake to bring him in if the plan was to play him out of his natural position as the baseline.

[Tr1boy]

I am not 100% sure but I have a memory of Fournier being tried out as a PG earlier in his career and the results being bad.

That lineup with Fournier at PG makes me worried about the offense before the defense. Nobody to direct the play / organize the team. No creative playmaker to play through. Lack of hierarchy playmakers. Feels like it would devolve into a "his turn, my turn" one-on-one play from the perimeter that would be low efficiency basketball.

And that is before you get to the defensive issues of who guards the opposing PG -- Jaylen, I'd guess.

My feeling is that lineup would be better off with a genuine PG and Fournier as a 6th man.

Agreed

His defense can be inconsistent as well

I would be more comfortable as using him as a 6th man. Take some of the scoring load off Jays and Walker

In theory AG plus Fournier should be good to provide at min 25 to 30 points extra per game.  Perhaps team D takes a little bit of dip also. But these extra points should equate to more wins

[slamtheking]

I am not 100% sure but I have a memory of Fournier being tried out as a PG earlier in his career and the results being bad.

That lineup with Fournier at PG makes me worried about the offense before the defense. Nobody to direct the play / organize the team. No creative playmaker to play through. Lack of hierarchy playmakers. Feels like it would devolve into a "his turn, my turn" one-on-one play from the perimeter that would be low efficiency basketball.

And that is before you get to the defensive issues of who guards the opposing PG -- Jaylen, I'd guess.

My feeling is that lineup would be better off with a genuine PG and Fournier as a 6th man.

Agreed

His defense can be inconsistent as well

I would be more comfortable as using him as a 6th man. Take some of the scoring load off Jays and Walker

In theory AG plus Fournier should be good to provide at min 25 to 30 points extra per game.  Perhaps team D takes a little bit of dip also. But these extra points should equate to more wins

agreed.  Fournier is a 6th man type.  start Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Gordon and Theis/Timelord.  pretty solid starting lineup.

Fournier, TT, Timelord/Theis, Pritchard off the bench isn't great but it's better than what we're trotting out there now.  Semi for matchup purposes.  hopefully by next year Nesmith and Romeo are making contributions and GWill is out of his sophomore funk.  that could be a pretty good team.  maybe Danny make another move or two to improve the bench and we're looking even better

[PAOBoston]

If we get Fournier included in a deal for Gordon, that would be great, but he would be brought in as a wing off the bench, not a PG.  There may be certain line ups that come up but it would be a mistake to bring him in if the plan was to play him out of his natural position as the baseline.

Pretty much this. Fournier becomes 6th man guy off the bench. I do believe he’s played some PG for Orlando this year but I’d say not his strong suit.

[Roy H.]

And while Gordon would be a welcome addition, a source with knowledge of the situation said there are conflicting views internally when it comes to the price the Nuggets should ultimately be willing to pay. The Celtics, as noted below, are believed to have put two first-round picks on the table as part of a Gordon proposal that also includes them landing Magic guard/free-agent-to-be Evan Fournier.
11 mins ago – via Sam Amick @ The Athletic

Other teams allegedly interested beyond the Nuggets and us include Portland and Houston.

So, some facts and assumptions:

1.  We can only take one of Gordon / Fournier into the trade exception;

2.  Orlando doesn't want to take on salary that puts them over the luxury tax;

3.  The Celtics want to stay under the tax.

4.  We have approximately $13.5 million in wiggle room according to media reports.

Our totally salary coming in would be $35,286,364.  That means we'd have to shed $21 - $22 million in salary.

How do we accomplish that?  The obvious answer is Kemba.  The other somewhat easy method is Smart + Thompson, although Smart + Thompson + two #1s seems like an overpay.

[Tr1boy]

Rockets, Magic in serious talks over Aaron Gordon

The Rockets and the Magic have had serious talks on a potential Gordon deal, league sources said. The precise terms under discussion are not 100 percent clear, but best I can read the tea leaves, Houston would have to send out significant draft compensation — multiple picks — as part of any proposed Gordon deal. – via ESPN

Makes no sense if you ask me. AG wants to play for a playoff contender. 

[wdleehi]

[Rockets, Magic in serious talks over Aaron Gordon

The Rockets and the Magic have had serious talks on a potential Gordon deal, league sources said. The precise terms under discussion are not 100 percent clear, but best I can read the tea leaves, Houston would have to send out significant draft compensation — multiple picks — as part of any proposed Gordon deal. – via ESPN
 Top Rumors, Draft, Aaron Gordon, Houston Rockets, Orlando Magic]

Makes no sense if you ask me. AG wants to play for a playoff contender.

It really feels like price driving by some team.

[Tr1boy]

[Rockets, Magic in serious talks over Aaron Gordon

The Rockets and the Magic have had serious talks on a potential Gordon deal, league sources said. The precise terms under discussion are not 100 percent clear, but best I can read the tea leaves, Houston would have to send out significant draft compensation — multiple picks — as part of any proposed Gordon deal. – via ESPN
 Top Rumors, Draft, Aaron Gordon, Houston Rockets, Orlando Magic]

Makes no sense if you ask me. AG wants to play for a playoff contender.

It really feels like price driving by some team.

Yup

In theory, Rockets have better picks to deal to Magic

Magic are aware that after AG is added to Celtics. The pick can go from teens to 20s in a blink of an eye

Bucks overpaid for Holiday. But I cant see Danny doing the same

[Who]

[Rockets, Magic in serious talks over Aaron Gordon

The Rockets and the Magic have had serious talks on a potential Gordon deal, league sources said. The precise terms under discussion are not 100 percent clear, but best I can read the tea leaves, Houston would have to send out significant draft compensation — multiple picks — as part of any proposed Gordon deal. – via ESPN
 Top Rumors, Draft, Aaron Gordon, Houston Rockets, Orlando Magic]

Makes no sense if you ask me. AG wants to play for a playoff contender.

It really feels like price driving by some team.

Two thoughts

(1) Houston (misguidedly) believes it can get back to not only contending for a playoff spot but contending for an NBA title in the near future. Not for well-thought out reasons but because of incompetence. A lack of understanding of how valuable the players, coaches and front office personnel that they dismantled and a lack of understanding of how difficult it will be to rebuild that infrastructure.

Houston, under Fertitta (the new-ish owner), just strike me as an ignorant team who have no understanding of how this league works. Of how to be successful in this league. Or how to avoid mistakes/errors in this league.

I see stupidity here.

(2) Aaron Gordon is in an interesting situation. He is not a player like LeBron who will get multiple max contract offers and can choose whatever situation offers him the best opportunities. No he is a player that will get offered less money and may have to decide whether money or winning matters most to him.

And if a team (like Houston) decides they will pay him much more than winning playoff teams will, does Aaron Gordon choose winning over money?

Winning over same money? Sure, no problem.
Way more money over less winning? We don't know.

Teams like Houston could have a shot at Gordon if they are willing to pay far more than others on a contract extension.

[Tr1boy]

[Rockets, Magic in serious talks over Aaron Gordon

The Rockets and the Magic have had serious talks on a potential Gordon deal, league sources said. The precise terms under discussion are not 100 percent clear, but best I can read the tea leaves, Houston would have to send out significant draft compensation — multiple picks — as part of any proposed Gordon deal. – via ESPN
 Top Rumors, Draft, Aaron Gordon, Houston Rockets, Orlando Magic]

Makes no sense if you ask me. AG wants to play for a playoff contender.

It really feels like price driving by some team.

Two thoughts

(1) Houston (misguidedly) believes it can get back to not only contending for a playoff spot but contending for an NBA title in the near future. Not for well-thought out reasons but because of incompetence. A lack of understanding of how valuable the players, coaches and front office personnel that they dismantled and a lack of understanding of how difficult it will be to rebuild that infrastructure.

Houston, under Fertitta (the new-ish owner), just strike me as an ignorant team who have no understanding of how this league works. Of how to be successful in this league. Or how to avoid mistakes/errors in this league.

I see stupidity here.

(2) Aaron Gordon is in an interesting situation. He is not a player like LeBron who will get multiple max contract offers and can choose whatever situation offers him the best opportunities. No he is a player that will get offered less money and may have to decide whether money or winning matters most to him.

And if a team (like Houston) decides they will pay him much more than winning playoff teams will, does Aaron Gordon choose winning over money?

Winning over same money? Sure, no problem.
Way more money over less winning? We don't know.

Teams like Houston could have a shot at Gordon if they are willing to pay far more than others on a contract extension.

True

Rockets wanted to discuss extension but AG turned the idea down previously

But if Rockets dangle near max dollar in his face plus promise the team will be better.  Aaron might fall for the bait

Dont have a good feeling about possibilities of AG to Celtics now.  Danny has never been the package leader but "next best offer/what other choice do you have"

[Sophomore]

I am not 100% sure but I have a memory of Fournier being tried out as a PG earlier in his career and the results being bad.

That lineup with Fournier at PG makes me worried about the offense before the defense. Nobody to direct the play / organize the team. No creative playmaker to play through. Lack of hierarchy playmakers. Feels like it would devolve into a "his turn, my turn" one-on-one play from the perimeter that would be low efficiency basketball.

And that is before you get to the defensive issues of who guards the opposing PG -- Jaylen, I'd guess.

My feeling is that lineup would be better off with a genuine PG and Fournier as a 6th man.

Agree. What does everybody not like about this team’s offense? It gets stagnant. No ball movement, and near the bottom of the league in passing. In the starting/closing lineup we need a playmaker to complement the Js - one reason Kemba is not the best fit anymore.

Ideally it would be a taller pg who is also above average on D. Dejounte Murray is not available, but that’s the kind of guy who’d be ideal. 

[GreenCoffeeBean]

I am not 100% sure but I have a memory of Fournier being tried out as a PG earlier in his career and the results being bad.

That lineup with Fournier at PG makes me worried about the offense before the defense. Nobody to direct the play / organize the team. No creative playmaker to play through. Lack of hierarchy playmakers. Feels like it would devolve into a "his turn, my turn" one-on-one play from the perimeter that would be low efficiency basketball.

And that is before you get to the defensive issues of who guards the opposing PG -- Jaylen, I'd guess.

My feeling is that lineup would be better off with a genuine PG and Fournier as a 6th man.

Agree. What does everybody not like about this team’s offense? It gets stagnant. No ball movement, and near the bottom of the league in passing. In the starting/closing lineup we need a playmaker to complement the Js - one reason Kemba is not the best fit anymore.

Ideally it would be a taller pg who is also above average on D. Dejounte Murray is not available, but that’s the kind of guy who’d be ideal.

I’d kill for Dejounte Murray or SGA. That said, the next best
thing we can do is a big that can score and dish and Gordon seems to fit the bill.

[Celtics2021]

I am not 100% sure but I have a memory of Fournier being tried out as a PG earlier in his career and the results being bad.

That lineup with Fournier at PG makes me worried about the offense before the defense. Nobody to direct the play / organize the team. No creative playmaker to play through. Lack of hierarchy playmakers. Feels like it would devolve into a "his turn, my turn" one-on-one play from the perimeter that would be low efficiency basketball.

And that is before you get to the defensive issues of who guards the opposing PG -- Jaylen, I'd guess.

My feeling is that lineup would be better off with a genuine PG and Fournier as a 6th man.

Agree. What does everybody not like about this team’s offense? It gets stagnant. No ball movement, and near the bottom of the league in passing. In the starting/closing lineup we need a playmaker to complement the Js - one reason Kemba is not the best fit anymore.

Ideally it would be a taller pg who is also above average on D. Dejounte Murray is not available, but that’s the kind of guy who’d be ideal.

It's interesting that you pick Murray as a solution to passing woes, as the Spurs average the third-fewest passes per game, 10% less than the Celtics.

[Moranis]

And while Gordon would be a welcome addition, a source with knowledge of the situation said there are conflicting views internally when it comes to the price the Nuggets should ultimately be willing to pay. The Celtics, as noted below, are believed to have put two first-round picks on the table as part of a Gordon proposal that also includes them landing Magic guard/free-agent-to-be Evan Fournier.
11 mins ago – via Sam Amick @ The Athletic

Other teams allegedly interested beyond the Nuggets and us include Portland and Houston.

So, some facts and assumptions:

1.  We can only take one of Gordon / Fournier into the trade exception;

2.  Orlando doesn't want to take on salary that puts them over the luxury tax;

3.  The Celtics want to stay under the tax.

4.  We have approximately $13.5 million in wiggle room according to media reports.

Our totally salary coming in would be $35,286,364.  That means we'd have to shed $21 - $22 million in salary.

How do we accomplish that?  The obvious answer is Kemba.  The other somewhat easy method is Smart + Thompson, although Smart + Thompson + two #1s seems like an overpay.

3 Team Trade

New York - Walker, Edwards
Orlando - Ntkilina, Noel, Langford, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Boston - Gordon, Fournier, Burks, Bullock

Edit: The 4 Knick players could interchange between Boston and Orlando, but I think how I have it makes the most sense from a value/use perspective.

That Boston team isn't a contender, but I do think it is set up much better long term with Gordon instead of Walker being a better fit and making more sense next to Tatum and Brown.  Burks and Bullock are solid vets and play a role for the current team and could be brought back on smaller contracts.  You give it a go with Fournier this year and see how it works out and then decide whether to bring him back.

Rotation for this season
Starters - Smart, Brown, Tatum, Gordon, Thompson
Playoff Rotation - Fournier, R. Williams, Theis, Burks, Bullock
Reg. Season Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Nesmith
Suits - Green, G. Williams, Fall, Waters

[Tr1boy]

Here is some gas

Mark Murphy
@Murf56
·
6m
Per source: Celtics talks with Orlando re: Aaron Gordon "still alive, but everyone does everything at last minute." Celtics offering first round pick and a young player - not Marcus Smart - and are trying not to include second pick in the deal

.

My guess its either Nesmith or Langford