Fair Marcus Smart discussion

[Celtics4ever]

He can win you games and he can lose you games.   He is the heart and soul of the team and a source of toughness but has a hero complex and can kill you with bad shot selection.   Definitely the king of 50/50 plays.

This team has zero chemistry and lacks defensive effort. If Smart is really the "heart and soul" then he is failing.

Smart is not part of the chemistry problems as he is a good passer.   I don't think it is fair to blame him for the lack of defensive effort and team coming out flat. 

I think our young All-Stars do not know how to lead.   We have a roster that does not fit well together, with a dicey bench which is on Ainge, and a team that does not come out and play hard for Stevens. 

It is a complex issue and not one person is too blame.  The players have a role in this, as does CBS and Ainge.  We win and lose as a team and organization.

[footey]

Smart has seniority over Tatum and Brown, and they too easily defer to him. It is a real problem, one that Brad should intervene on.

I love Smart's attitude and will to win, but he is smothering our younger, better players.

They aren't going to learn to lead if he is in charge, and if he isn't being held accountable by Brad.

They did a poor job of leading when Smart was out for a few weeks.

[Goldstar88]

Other than Smart shooting(and missing) too much, is there any other part of his game that you have a problem with? He was tied for the most assists on the team tonight with 6, only 1 turnover.  4-4 from the Line. The shooting is infuriating and Brad needs to limit his attempts, but that’s really the only issue I have with his play. I don’t understand how the coach allows a 32% 3pt shooter to attempt 10 3’s in a game....This seems like more of a Brad problem.

His mediocre defence?

I don’t think his defense is as bad as you make it seem. He missed 16 games and needs to get back into form. Overall, I thought he looked good defensively in last nights game.

[Goldstar88]

My issues:

One, this team needs to add players who can be counted on, not subtract one.  Especially if one of the players coming in is a FA at the end of the season.

Two, if a real big time player hits the trade market, the fact that so many teams want Smart, he is to important of a trade piece for players that are in the same range in terms of value.

Three, I just don't get the cap issues.

I don't think Smart fits that description

It's wild to me how easily people have forgotten all of the big plays Smart has made over the years.

It's wild to me how easily people have forgotten all of the terrible plays Smart has made over the years.  Why is it that Celtics fans are so quick to excuse/forgive all of the times Smart has made horrible decisions that have cost the Celtics games? 

Today is a quality example.  Smart shot 2-10 from three.  Smart is a defensive role player and a 32% three point shooter for his career.  There is NO SCENARIO in which Marcus Smart should ever be attempting 10 three point shots in a game...especially not when he's having a bad shooting night.  He ranks 11th on the team in 3PT% yet ranks 4th on the team in three point attempt rate (52.4%).  Smart is one of the worst shooters among guards that I've ever seen, and yet it really does seem like he's never seen a shot he didn't like.

If we are going to evaluate Marcus Smart as a player, I think it's important that we be impartial.  I'm more then happy to acknowledge the value that Smart brings with his passion, his hustle, his defence, and his uncanny tendency to perform game saving/winning plays. 

But with that you also need to acknowledge his recklessness, the unforced turnovers (bad passes, failed flop attempts, tacky offensive fouls) and his horrible shot selection - tendencies that have lost the Celtics crucial games on so many occasions.

I know we all love that feeling we get when smart makes a big time play.  But just as much as I love that - probably even more - I hate that feeling of deep dread that I feel every time Smart touches the ball at the end of a close game.  Especially in the playoffs.  I don't know if my heart can take much more of this extreme roller-coaster rides.  There's an old saying, that "slow and steady wins the race".  I love Smart, but I think I'm about ready to trade the love/hate relationship in for a bit of that 'slow and steady'.

Isn’t it Brad’s job to tell his players their role? Isn’t that why teams have coaches? “Marcus, you have the 11th lowest 3pt% out of the 13 players that have attempted 3’s on this team. We need you to be a facilitator and limit your total shot attempts to 8 or less a game.”

How has that conversation not taken place. It clearly hasn’t.

[PAOBoston]

My issues:

One, this team needs to add players who can be counted on, not subtract one.  Especially if one of the players coming in is a FA at the end of the season.

Two, if a real big time player hits the trade market, the fact that so many teams want Smart, he is to important of a trade piece for players that are in the same range in terms of value.

Three, I just don't get the cap issues.

I don't think Smart fits that description

It's wild to me how easily people have forgotten all of the big plays Smart has made over the years.

It's wild to me how easily people have forgotten all of the terrible plays Smart has made over the years.  Why is it that Celtics fans are so quick to excuse/forgive all of the times Smart has made horrible decisions that have cost the Celtics games? 

Today is a quality example.  Smart shot 2-10 from three.  Smart is a defensive role player and a 32% three point shooter for his career.  There is NO SCENARIO in which Marcus Smart should ever be attempting 10 three point shots in a game...especially not when he's having a bad shooting night.  He ranks 11th on the team in 3PT% yet ranks 4th on the team in three point attempt rate (52.4%).  Smart is one of the worst shooters among guards that I've ever seen, and yet it really does seem like he's never seen a shot he didn't like.

If we are going to evaluate Marcus Smart as a player, I think it's important that we be impartial.  I'm more then happy to acknowledge the value that Smart brings with his passion, his hustle, his defence, and his uncanny tendency to perform game saving/winning plays. 

But with that you also need to acknowledge his recklessness, the unforced turnovers (bad passes, failed flop attempts, tacky offensive fouls) and his horrible shot selection - tendencies that have lost the Celtics crucial games on so many occasions.

I know we all love that feeling we get when smart makes a big time play.  But just as much as I love that - probably even more - I hate that feeling of deep dread that I feel every time Smart touches the ball at the end of a close game.  Especially in the playoffs.  I don't know if my heart can take much more of this extreme roller-coaster rides.  There's an old saying, that "slow and steady wins the race".  I love Smart, but I think I'm about ready to trade the love/hate relationship in for a bit of that 'slow and steady'.

Isn’t it Brad’s job to tell his players their role? Isn’t that why teams have coaches? “Marcus, you have the 11th lowest 3pt% out of the 13 players that have attempted 3’s on this team. We need you to be a facilitator and limit your total shot attempts to 8 or less a game.”

How has that conversation not taken place. It clearly hasn’t.

I have a hard time believing the Cs have never spoken to Smart. At the beginning of the season, he publicly mentioned his shot selection and improving that. I think he just does what he does and the Cs don’t have better players to usurp him/take away his playing time because this roster is so bad. The last few seasons since we have lost Horford/Kyrie and now Hayward, it’s like his license to shoot has increased as a result. He thinks he’s “one of the core guys”. He isn’t and that’s the problem. I’m pro trading him now because it avoids the entire contract negotiation next year. Cs shouldn’t commit big money to this player.

[Moranis]

Glad to see the board is coming around that Smart's horrid offense doesn't make up for his elite defense.  It just doesn't.  He costs the team more games than he wins the team.  I've been saying for years that Smart needs to be in the 2 3PA range a game.  if he just did that, he would be so much more valuable as a player, but he just doesn't have it in him to reign in the shots.  The simple reality is, basically any 3 Smart takes is a bad shot because he is the worst shooter on the team.  You have to shoot one every so often to keep defenses honest, but every so often is not 6 a game. And now that Smart isn't defending at quite the same level, his offensive deficiencies are going to be magnified. 

[Who]

I’m pro trading him now because it avoids the entire contract negotiation next year. Cs shouldn’t commit big money to this player.

I am in the  pro-trade Smart camp as well albeit not for the same reasons. I love Smart and what he brings to the table. I regard him as a top 50 player in the league. However, I do agree that trading him is an enticing option.

I look at it as our best option to trade him for prospect / a work in progress player who has higher potential than Smart. I look at this as being the best route forward for the team to upgrade it's talent level long term and get to a Championship space.

I see the Shane Battier for the #8 pick (Rudy Gay) as the ideal framework for a Marcus Smart trade. Take a risk on something better and try to develop that young guy into becoming a star. It is risky. It may not work out. But I believe it is a risk worth doing and a risk we should take.

And as you pointed out above, it also removes Smart's future contract from our cap creating cap flexibility for additions / improvements in that way as well.

So yes, I am pro-trade Smart despite being a big Smart fan / believer.

[Somebody]

I’m pro trading him now because it avoids the entire contract negotiation next year. Cs shouldn’t commit big money to this player.

I am in the  pro-trade Smart camp as well albeit not for the same reasons. I love Smart and what he brings to the table. I regard him as a top 50 player in the league. However, I do agree that trading him is an enticing option.

I look at it as our best option to trade him for prospect / a work in progress player who has higher potential than Smart. I look at this as being the best route forward for the team to upgrade it's talent level long term and get to a Championship space.

I see the Shane Battier for the #8 pick (Rudy Gay) as the ideal framework for a Marcus Smart trade. Take a risk on something better and try to develop that young guy into becoming a star. It is risky. It may not work out. But I believe it is a risk worth doing and a risk we should take.

And as you pointed out above, it also removes Smart's future contract from our cap creating cap flexibility for additions / improvements in that way as well.

So yes, I am pro-trade Smart despite being a big Smart fan / believer.

We aren't getting that sort of trade package for Smart right now though - most teams view Smart in a similar light to Moranis. I'd just re-sign him on another bargain deal next offseason and keep a top 40-50 player for the years to come on the cheap.

[Goldstar88]

My issues:

One, this team needs to add players who can be counted on, not subtract one.  Especially if one of the players coming in is a FA at the end of the season.

Two, if a real big time player hits the trade market, the fact that so many teams want Smart, he is to important of a trade piece for players that are in the same range in terms of value.

Three, I just don't get the cap issues.

I don't think Smart fits that description

It's wild to me how easily people have forgotten all of the big plays Smart has made over the years.

It's wild to me how easily people have forgotten all of the terrible plays Smart has made over the years.  Why is it that Celtics fans are so quick to excuse/forgive all of the times Smart has made horrible decisions that have cost the Celtics games? 

Today is a quality example.  Smart shot 2-10 from three.  Smart is a defensive role player and a 32% three point shooter for his career.  There is NO SCENARIO in which Marcus Smart should ever be attempting 10 three point shots in a game...especially not when he's having a bad shooting night.  He ranks 11th on the team in 3PT% yet ranks 4th on the team in three point attempt rate (52.4%).  Smart is one of the worst shooters among guards that I've ever seen, and yet it really does seem like he's never seen a shot he didn't like.

If we are going to evaluate Marcus Smart as a player, I think it's important that we be impartial.  I'm more then happy to acknowledge the value that Smart brings with his passion, his hustle, his defence, and his uncanny tendency to perform game saving/winning plays. 

But with that you also need to acknowledge his recklessness, the unforced turnovers (bad passes, failed flop attempts, tacky offensive fouls) and his horrible shot selection - tendencies that have lost the Celtics crucial games on so many occasions.

I know we all love that feeling we get when smart makes a big time play.  But just as much as I love that - probably even more - I hate that feeling of deep dread that I feel every time Smart touches the ball at the end of a close game.  Especially in the playoffs.  I don't know if my heart can take much more of this extreme roller-coaster rides.  There's an old saying, that "slow and steady wins the race".  I love Smart, but I think I'm about ready to trade the love/hate relationship in for a bit of that 'slow and steady'.

Isn’t it Brad’s job to tell his players their role? Isn’t that why teams have coaches? “Marcus, you have the 11th lowest 3pt% out of the 13 players that have attempted 3’s on this team. We need you to be a facilitator and limit your total shot attempts to 8 or less a game.”

How has that conversation not taken place. It clearly hasn’t.

I have a hard time believing the Cs have never spoken to Smart. At the beginning of the season, he publicly mentioned his shot selection and improving that. I think he just does what he does and the Cs don’t have better players to usurp him/take away his playing time because this roster is so bad. The last few seasons since we have lost Horford/Kyrie and now Hayward, it’s like his license to shoot has increased as a result. He thinks he’s “one of the core guys”. He isn’t and that’s the problem. I’m pro trading him now because it avoids the entire contract negotiation next year. Cs shouldn’t commit big money to this player.

This from late December of last year. At the 2 min mark, The reporter asked brad about his Smart’s shot selection and role on the team. Sounds like he gave Marcus the green light to fire away and it
Does not seem that the strategy has changed. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i6gQjO_xXt4

[Jiri Welsch]

Just thinking more and more about Smart after the past few games...

His unfathomable decision on the jump ball with 0.3 left on the shot clock completely shifted the momentum of the game. He then proceeded to get ejected after a borderline call didn't go his way during their late push.

Smart is 27 years old. He showed legitimate growth as a player up to and through last season. But this year he has stalled. I've unfortunately accepted that this is who Smart is and will be. He's inconsistent and streaky, and not someone you can rely on to make the right decision. Sure there are great moments. But there are also countless bad moments. The fact that a team relies on him says more about the roster quality than anything else IMO.

I'm just not sure how much longer he can be on this roster. I don't think he's a net positive anymore, and it's frustrating that we even need to consider, "should we finish with Smart or Fournier?" It seems the only reason it's a conversation is because he's so volatile you might lose him if his ego isn't taken care of.

My biggest issue with the whole "Smart situation" is the coaching staff and front office never explicitly said to him, "You're our sixth man. You will only start when there are injuries, but if everyone is healthy you're a bench guy." They've created this monster and are now unable to control it. It's difficult as a fan to enjoy him this season.

[footey]

Just thinking more and more about Smart after the past few games...

His unfathomable decision on the jump ball with 0.3 left on the shot clock completely shifted the momentum of the game. He then proceeded to get ejected after a borderline call didn't go his way during their late push.

Smart is 27 years old. He showed legitimate growth as a player up to and through last season. But this year he has stalled. I've unfortunately accepted that this is who Smart is and will be. He's inconsistent and streaky, and not someone you can rely on to make the right decision. Sure there are great moments. But there are also countless bad moments. The fact that a team relies on him says more about the roster quality than anything else IMO.

I'm just not sure how much longer he can be on this roster. I don't think he's a net positive anymore, and it's frustrating that we even need to consider, "should we finish with Smart or Fournier?" It seems the only reason it's a conversation is because he's so volatile you might lose him if his ego isn't taken care of.

My biggest issue with the whole "Smart situation" is the coaching staff and front office never explicitly said to him, "You're our sixth man. You will only start when there are injuries, but if everyone is healthy you're a bench guy." They've created this monster and are now unable to control it. It's difficult as a fan to enjoy him this season.

I'm with you.  I'd return him to his 6th man role and start Fournier.  Bring in Marcus and Payton off the bench. 

[seancally]

My issues:

One, this team needs to add players who can be counted on, not subtract one.  Especially if one of the players coming in is a FA at the end of the season.

Two, if a real big time player hits the trade market, the fact that so many teams want Smart, he is to important of a trade piece for players that are in the same range in terms of value.

Three, I just don't get the cap issues.

I don't think Smart fits that description

It's wild to me how easily people have forgotten all of the big plays Smart has made over the years.

It's wild to me how easily people have forgotten all of the terrible plays Smart has made over the years.  Why is it that Celtics fans are so quick to excuse/forgive all of the times Smart has made horrible decisions that have cost the Celtics games? 

Today is a quality example.  Smart shot 2-10 from three.  Smart is a defensive role player and a 32% three point shooter for his career.  There is NO SCENARIO in which Marcus Smart should ever be attempting 10 three point shots in a game...especially not when he's having a bad shooting night.  He ranks 11th on the team in 3PT% yet ranks 4th on the team in three point attempt rate (52.4%).  Smart is one of the worst shooters among guards that I've ever seen, and yet it really does seem like he's never seen a shot he didn't like.

If we are going to evaluate Marcus Smart as a player, I think it's important that we be impartial.  I'm more then happy to acknowledge the value that Smart brings with his passion, his hustle, his defence, and his uncanny tendency to perform game saving/winning plays. 

But with that you also need to acknowledge his recklessness, the unforced turnovers (bad passes, failed flop attempts, tacky offensive fouls) and his horrible shot selection - tendencies that have lost the Celtics crucial games on so many occasions.

I know we all love that feeling we get when smart makes a big time play.  But just as much as I love that - probably even more - I hate that feeling of deep dread that I feel every time Smart touches the ball at the end of a close game.  Especially in the playoffs.  I don't know if my heart can take much more of this extreme roller-coaster rides.  There's an old saying, that "slow and steady wins the race".  I love Smart, but I think I'm about ready to trade the love/hate relationship in for a bit of that 'slow and steady'.

Isn’t it Brad’s job to tell his players their role? Isn’t that why teams have coaches? “Marcus, you have the 11th lowest 3pt% out of the 13 players that have attempted 3’s on this team. We need you to be a facilitator and limit your total shot attempts to 8 or less a game.”

How has that conversation not taken place. It clearly hasn’t.

I have a hard time believing the Cs have never spoken to Smart. At the beginning of the season, he publicly mentioned his shot selection and improving that. I think he just does what he does and the Cs don’t have better players to usurp him/take away his playing time because this roster is so bad. The last few seasons since we have lost Horford/Kyrie and now Hayward, it’s like his license to shoot has increased as a result. He thinks he’s “one of the core guys”. He isn’t and that’s the problem. I’m pro trading him now because it avoids the entire contract negotiation next year. Cs shouldn’t commit big money to this player.

This from late December of last year. At the 2 min mark, The reporter asked brad about his Smart’s shot selection and role on the team. Sounds like he gave Marcus the green light to fire away and it
Does not seem that the strategy has changed. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i6gQjO_xXt4

Fair enough, but I also doubt Brad is going to tell a reporter, “yeah he sucks at shooting we told him to cut it out.”

He probably does have the green light to take open shots in the flow of the offense.

[mobilija]

I had the game on mute and was watching some other shows w my kids...

I was baffled by the jump situation but couldnt figure out what was going on, missed the lead up too. Also, missed the ejection. Anyone care to elaborate and explain...? Thanks!

[tonydelk]

I had the game on mute and was watching some other shows w my kids...

I was baffled by the jump situation but couldnt figure out what was going on, missed the lead up too. Also, missed the ejection. Anyone care to elaborate and explain...? Thanks!

I really have to state that Marcus has been hard to watch this year.  Pre injury he seemed more efficient.  Since his return he can't hit the broad side of a barn outside of his performance a few games go.  He's just a terrible shooter.  I do like when he's in the post and driving to the hoop.  I do cringe when we are going through a rut and Smart is the one trying to shoot the team out of it versus letting Tatum go to work.  It seems the C's are getting burned in transition off of the 3pt bricks that are landing 15 ft from the basket letting the other team get out and run.  Marcus does not seem to be himself right now.  He's our best playmaker and I wish he'd shoot less but he opens things up for the rest of the team.  He just needs to be told to reign it in.  As for his role on the team I do think he will be gone next year.  I think it's time and if he can bring in other assets they will do it.  I can't see them giving him 20m per year which is what he will probably one on his next contract.

[footey]

I had the game on mute and was watching some other shows w my kids...

I was baffled by the jump situation but couldnt figure out what was going on, missed the lead up too. Also, missed the ejection. Anyone care to elaborate and explain...? Thanks!

The jump situation: He seemed to think the Celtics where subject to the 0.3 left on the shot clock, when in fact it was the Pelicans.  His shot out of bounds resulted in a turnover.  Just a stupid play, exacerbated by his attempt to explain and justify it to his teammates. Further exacerbated by his making poor decisions early in shot clock after.

He was tossed because a ref refused to call an out of bounds foul on Adams, who plowed over Smart during an in bounds play. Smart kept jawing at the ref, who then tossed him from the game.  Probably would have lost anyway, but it  was very selfish of him to behave that way.