Fair Marcus Smart discussion

[Goldstar88]

He needs to emulate Draymond Green. Play high level D, get your teammates involved(Smart did have 8 assists yesterday), do the dirty work and be a glue guy. Shots attempted need to be kept between 6-8 per game. If he can do that, I will have no complaints. Problem is that he thinks he’s a shooter and brad doesn’t have the balls it seems to tell him otherwise.

I completely understand your point, but Green can play that way because of Curry, Thompson, Durant ect generating offence. When you take out those players and only have Green, Warriors get destroyed.

What I am thinking is that the Celtics allow Smart to play the way he does, because we lack playmakers on the team. I love Brown, but he can't really initiate offence yet, only Tatum partially can and if Smart dropped his shooting off to 6 per game, defences would cave in on the perimeter knowing Smart wouldn't shoot or drive and our points would drop off a cliff.

It's a bad situation I know, but I don't think Stevens or Smart is really responsible, just bad luck. Stevens is one of the brightest coaches in the NBA, against Toronto's Nurse (the coach of the year) he outsmarted him in their matchup. Stevens would be able to comprehend if Smart was over shooting, even Celtics analytics department would give Ainge data to say that Stevens needs to bring Smart in line and I can't seeing Stevens butting heads with Ainge over that. The team is just lacking in talent because our roster has been plunders year after year. Horford being overpaid, Hayward's absence then wanting to leave, Irving changing his mind and walking on the Celtics, Rozier getting overpaid.

If any other team lost Horford, Irving, Hayward and Rozier (3 all-stars and 6th man candidate) within the space of 2 years they would be almost dead last in the standings. I think it is a credit to the organisation that we have maintained competitiveness given the circumstances.

Celtics have enough shooters on the team. There is no reason that Smart should be taking 14 shots like he did yesterday. Pritchard is shooting 42% from 3pt, Teague is at 44% and Semi is 39%. Smart took 9 threes yesterday and made 3, which is right at his average. Pritchard, Teague and Semi took a combined 9 threes and they made 6 of them. That’s a problem.

[RJ87]

It might be being harsh, but the reality is harsh - his shooting and defence has gotten worse in consecutive years. His defence this year has, for the first time ever, been reliably average. Not even good!

Eh. I'm willing to give him a pass on defense while he works his way back from the calf injury.

I think it we keep Marcus past the deadline, he needs to be the sixth man. I think that's his best role: a guy who can come in off the bench and changes the pace of the game with his defense and energy. But that requires us upgrading the talent on this team ahead of him.

[PAOBoston]

It might be being harsh, but the reality is harsh - his shooting and defence has gotten worse in consecutive years. His defence this year has, for the first time ever, been reliably average. Not even good!

Eh. I'm willing to give him a pass on defense while he works his way back from the calf injury.

I think it we keep Marcus past the deadline, he needs to be the sixth man. I think that's his best role: a guy who can come in off the bench and changes the pace of the game with his defense and energy. But that requires us upgrading the talent on this team ahead of him.

This issue is Smart doesn’t view himself as a 6th man. That’s the problem. He’s also not going to ask to get paid like a 6th man either when he is due a new deal next year.

[CBS_Take a Report]

Marcus Smart is mis-cast. He is on a team that isn’t fully built and serving in a role that exceeds what he should be because of the incompleteness of the roster.

If he were just the defensive spark and off-the-bench ball handler, we would love him. His decision making is suspect but also I don’t see anyone else stepping in to be the Alpha.

We are stuck in no mans land in terms of building this team.

[Big333223]

Draymond is a good comp for Smart, in that I think they are both players who don't elevate a bad team but who become indispensable linchpins with talent around them.

I also think Smart's best place in the lineup, defensively is not on quick guards. I trust Smart running the offense as a pg but he's better on defense when there is someone else to take the waterbug pg's on other teams, allowing him to use his strength and length on bigger wings. It's why the Rozier pairing made worked so well (Rozier could stay in front of quicker pg's on defense but Smart was the better playmaking on offnse). I think I'd rather have Jaylen guarding some of these opposing pg's.

[PhoSita]

Marcus is wasted / out of his depth on a team that lacks scoring balance.

You never really want Smart out there in lineups that lack multiple scoring options. 

He's at his best when he can use his energy on defense and be more of a playmaker on offense.


These days the Celts skew more toward a team that lacks scoring, apart from the two main guys.  That is why I think Smart has been more prone to having outings where he takes too many shots and doesn't give as much on defense.


On a team with lots of scoring where Smart can focus on what he does best, he's hugely valuable.

[wdleehi]

Marcus is wasted / out of his depth on a team that lacks scoring balance.

You never really want Smart out there in lineups that lack multiple scoring options. 

He's at his best when he can use his energy on defense and be more of a playmaker on offense.


These days the Celts skew more toward a team that lacks scoring, apart from the two main guys.  That is why I think Smart has been more prone to having outings where he takes too many shots and doesn't give as much on defense.


On a team with lots of scoring where Smart can focus on what he does best, he's hugely valuable.

So if the Celtics were to add someone like Gordon who would be the number 4 option, does Smart suddenly fit better?   

[Tr1boy]

Marcus is wasted / out of his depth on a team that lacks scoring balance.

You never really want Smart out there in lineups that lack multiple scoring options. 

He's at his best when he can use his energy on defense and be more of a playmaker on offense.


These days the Celts skew more toward a team that lacks scoring, apart from the two main guys.  That is why I think Smart has been more prone to having outings where he takes too many shots and doesn't give as much on defense.


On a team with lots of scoring where Smart can focus on what he does best, he's hugely valuable.

So if the Celtics were to add someone like Gordon who would be the number 4 option, does Smart suddenly fit better?

Gordon wont be a go to but he also wont be a 4th option

Celts would have the luxury to ride the hot hand between Brown, Tatum, Walker, Gordon

[Fafnir]

If Gordon isn't the fourth option we'll have these same discussions about his shot selection too. You don't want him or Marcus being top 3 on your offensive depth chart.

[tstorey_97]

TP Muzzy - agree with your analysis. 

Play Marcus within his skillset and he can be a championship difference maker.

TP Muzzy and Neurotic guy for giving TP to Muzzy.

Smart runs on emotion which assures extreme highs and lows.
This team doesn't have a need for that at the moment, also, the team should be constructed with Smart coming off the bench as the point guard. He is a consistent ball handler passer playmaker as PG. I suggest this might give him enough structure on the offensive end.

He does a hundred effective things on defense. He gets into defender's heads in a myriad of ways.

I agree without a structured approach he is not a perfect fit on this particular team. His shooting hurts the team and if that can't be managed? 

[PhoSita]

Marcus is wasted / out of his depth on a team that lacks scoring balance.

You never really want Smart out there in lineups that lack multiple scoring options. 

He's at his best when he can use his energy on defense and be more of a playmaker on offense.


These days the Celts skew more toward a team that lacks scoring, apart from the two main guys.  That is why I think Smart has been more prone to having outings where he takes too many shots and doesn't give as much on defense.


On a team with lots of scoring where Smart can focus on what he does best, he's hugely valuable.

So if the Celtics were to add someone like Gordon who would be the number 4 option, does Smart suddenly fit better?

I think Smart definitely works a lot better in a lineup with Brown / Tatum / Gordon, although with that group you still lack a post playmaker (e.g. the Horford role) and Smart is still the best ballhandler in that group, which is not ideal.


If the bench is still super thin, meaning that Smart is often one of the best offensive players out there in bench lineups, that will still be a problem. But adding Gordon would at least mean more offensive balance out there during crunch time.

[PhoSita]

If Gordon isn't the fourth option we'll have these same discussions about his shot selection too. You don't want him or Marcus being top 3 on your offensive depth chart.

Very good point.


I think the ideal would be that you have a center who can do some playmaking and shot creation, similar to what Horford did, with Tatum-Brown-Gordon on the perimeter, and then have Smart as the starting guard or as the first backup guard.


But the Celts are a long way off from ideal in terms of how they construct the roster.


If Kemba is healthy, then a lineup with him, the Jays, Gordon, and Rob Williams / Theis would probably look pretty good.

Then your bench is Pritchard, Smart, Timelord/Theis, and ....

That's where the trouble is.  That morass of Langford-Nesmith-Semi-Grant-Javonte in the place where you'd really like to have a solid backup 2/3 and 3/4.

[Fafnir]

Yeah I don't see trading Smart for Gordon as worth it overall to make a better team this season.

Now maybe Danny's already decided that Smart's next deal isn't one he wants to pay, but he does want to extend Gordon. Then this sort of trade makes more sense if you can extend Gordon and don't give up a bunch in the swap. Avoid the Hayward/Horford/Kyrie situation and keep a talented player around Tatum/Brown.

But two picks + Marcus for Gordon/Fournier (rental) doesn't excite me. One future pick being gone is just that much less ammo to build around Tatum. (one of the picks is this years and thus doesn't matter for future trades once its sent off)

[Who]

I think the ideal would be that you have a center who can do some playmaking and shot creation, similar to what Horford did, with Tatum-Brown-Gordon on the perimeter, and then have Smart as the starting guard or as the first backup guard.

I don't think this will work well enough. I do not see enough quickness, dribble penetration or creative passing in that lineup (short of a Jokic level passing center).

The 1-4 of Smart at PG next to 3 forwards is too lacking in ball-handling, quickness, dribble penetration, passing off of drives.

It is will play too much out in front of a set defense instead of inside the defense forcing the defense out of position into help & react sequences. It will lead to too much 1-on-1 play from Jaylen and Tatum.

It is too reliant on Tatum & Jaylen becoming high end playmakers on the wing in order for it to function at a Championship level instead of building a team around their definite skill-sets -- which will require more ball-handling and incisive passing next to them.



Edit: Not enough outside shooting either unless you get a prolific 3 point shooting center in addition to being a Jokic level passer in order to make that lineup function at a Championship level. 

[libermaniac]

If Smart is traded (I'm skeptical of these trade rumors) they absolutely will not trade Romeo as well, as he is logically Smart's replacement as a potential defensive stopper guard.

Great point. Hadn’t thought of that. TP.