NFL 2021 Season

[Redz]

These takes are hilarious. I think even Tom Brady would laugh at them.

More than any other sport, football is not about only one player even if you have the greatest QB of all time. Without excellent offensive lines, receivers and backs, Brady couldn't have achieved the greatness that he did. Without great defenses, the team doesn't win all those Super Bowls.

Without Bill, those other great players on the offensive side of the ball and those defenses, Brady could easily only have been Dan Marino or Jim Kelly great because he wouldn't have all those Super Bowl wins and we would all be of the belief that Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time.

3 game sample but Matthew Stafford seems to be doing a whole lot better with a decent team around him too.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

These takes are hilarious. I think even Tom Brady would laugh at them.

More than any other sport, football is not about only one player even if you have the greatest QB of all time. Without excellent offensive lines, receivers and backs, Brady couldn't have achieved the greatness that he did. Without great defenses, the team doesn't win all those Super Bowls.

Without Bill, those other great players on the offensive side of the ball and those defenses, Brady could easily only have been Dan Marino or Jim Kelly great because he wouldn't have all those Super Bowl wins and we would all be of the belief that Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time.

3 game sample but Matthew Stafford seems to be doing a whole lot better with a decent team around him too.

Matthew Stafford is a stud. #1 Draft pick and quickest to 40,000 yards (I believe). He is a complete outlier.

[Vermont Green]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

Isn't this conversation relative to the rest of the league? Are you comparing Belichick to God in a vacuum? I guess God wins that one.

No I'm saying the mess of a roster that is New England is a direct result of the man who put that roster together.  And that is the same man that has been doing that for years. 

The Patriots have not had a very good roster in over a decade as they have not drafted well and have not done well in free agency, on the whole. 

I'm also saying that if Tom Brady wasn't in New England for all those years, Bill wouldn't be in New England either for those reasons.  Brady covered up a lot of the holes and mistakes that were made by management.  Bill's time in New England would have looked an awful lot like his time in Cleveland if Tom Brady doesn't fall to them in the 6th round.  Drafting Brady was a great move and one Bill deserves immense credit for, but it was also over 20 years ago.

This is truly an odd & mind-boggling statement considering the past decade has brought 5 Super Bowl appearances, 3 Super Bowl championships, & more wins than any other franchise in the NFL during that time period. 

You're seemingly discrediting everyone but Brady.

It is strange that there is all this chatter that Bill is a bad GM, a bad drafter, when he has been GM'ing the most successful team in the league over that period.  He got lucky with Brady, no doubt, but that is part of drafting and sports in general.  Belichick has built a good team pretty much every year for 20 years.  Unprecedented.

I think Bill has a very set philosophy regarding rostering which I will try to explain with an example.  Take linebackers for example.  Usually there are 4 of them.  Some teams spend big money on one "star" who gets a bunch of sacks but then the other ones aren't as good.  Typically it could be one star, two average, and one marginal.  Coaches game plan though to contain the one star and exploit the one marginal player.

Bill would trade or just not sign the one star and pick up two very good players to replace the star and the marginal player.  The result is two very good LBs and 2 average LBs.  No soft spots or weakness, rather you have balance, nothing a coach can game plan to take advantage of.

This has generally worked really well but it seems that people want to criticize when we end up with a balanced team with no stars (other than Brady of course) but also no weaknesses.  Drafting may be similar.  We have always drafted late so every team gets to pick before us (on average) but even with that, it always seems like we pass on sure things and and pick a lot of players that don't work out.  Yet every year the team is good.

My guess is that if there was a data based way to rate NFL drafts over the last 20 years, which took into account where you draft, that the Patriots would be no worse than middle of the pack.

[Celtics2021]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

Isn't this conversation relative to the rest of the league? Are you comparing Belichick to God in a vacuum? I guess God wins that one.

No I'm saying the mess of a roster that is New England is a direct result of the man who put that roster together.  And that is the same man that has been doing that for years. 

The Patriots have not had a very good roster in over a decade as they have not drafted well and have not done well in free agency, on the whole. 

I'm also saying that if Tom Brady wasn't in New England for all those years, Bill wouldn't be in New England either for those reasons.  Brady covered up a lot of the holes and mistakes that were made by management.  Bill's time in New England would have looked an awful lot like his time in Cleveland if Tom Brady doesn't fall to them in the 6th round.  Drafting Brady was a great move and one Bill deserves immense credit for, but it was also over 20 years ago.

This is truly an odd & mind-boggling statement considering the past decade has brought 5 Super Bowl appearances, 3 Super Bowl championships, & more wins than any other franchise in the NFL during that time period. 

You're seemingly discrediting everyone but Brady.

It is strange that there is all this chatter that Bill is a bad GM, a bad drafter, when he has been GM'ing the most successful team in the league over that period.  He got lucky with Brady, no doubt, but that is part of drafting and sports in general.  Belichick has built a good team pretty much every year for 20 years.  Unprecedented.

I think Bill has a very set philosophy regarding rostering which I will try to explain with an example.  Take linebackers for example.  Usually there are 4 of them.  Some teams spend big money on one "star" who gets a bunch of sacks but then the other ones aren't as good.  Typically it could be one star, two average, and one marginal.  Coaches game plan though to contain the one star and exploit the one marginal player.

Bill would trade the or just not sign the one star and pick up two very good players to replace the star and the marginal player.  The result is two very good LBs and 2 average LBs.  No soft spots or weakness, rather you have balance, nothing a coach can game plan to take advantage of.

This has generally worked really well but it seems that people want to criticize when we end up with a balanced team with no stars (other than Brady of course) but also no weaknesses.  Drafting may be similar.  We have always drafted late so every team gets to pick before us (on average) but even with that, it always seems like we pass on sure things and and pick a lot of players that don't work out.  Yet every year the team is good.

My guess is that if there was a data based way to rate NFL drafts over the last 20 years, which took into account where you draft, that the Patriots would be no worse than middle of the pack.

Anyone who thinks that building a team pretty much ran itself for 2 decades because of Brady needs to look at the decade Matt Stafford spent with the Lions.

[Goldstar88]

"I know that locker room, I know that home locker room, I know that home tunnel, I know which way the wind blows, I know everything about that [place]," Brady told Jim Gray on their "Let's Go!" podcast on SiriusXM. "I know the way it smells. I know what a night game's like, I know what the fans are gonna sound like. So in some ways, that'll be really unique. I've never had that experience going to, you know -- it'll be a first time for me being on the other sideline.

"I'm not going to necessarily reminisce. I don't think this is the moment for that. I'll have plenty opportunities to reminisce about my football career -- none of it, none of which I really care to do right now because I'm so much in the moment. I'm not going to be thinking about 20 years of history. I'm going to be thinking about one night of football, a Sunday night game coming off a really tough loss."

"I wouldn't expect that -- a homecoming," said Brady, who added that he will have a number of family members and friends in attendance -- and they've been asking for tickets for six months. "I mean, I think they're there to root for their team, and their team is the Patriots. I think they're gonna cheer for their team as I would expect them to, and I think if they know anything about me, they're gonna know that I'm going out there to try to win the football game, so I think they'll respect that about me.
"One thing I learned from the Patriots -- [Bill] Belichick would say, 'Listen, if you love football, then, 8:30 on Sunday night at Gillette Stadium is the place to be."

[celticsclay]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Is this satire?

[celticsclay]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

Isn't this conversation relative to the rest of the league? Are you comparing Belichick to God in a vacuum? I guess God wins that one.

Lol I haven’t laughed this hard at a post in some time. Tp

[Moranis]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

Isn't this conversation relative to the rest of the league? Are you comparing Belichick to God in a vacuum? I guess God wins that one.

No I'm saying the mess of a roster that is New England is a direct result of the man who put that roster together.  And that is the same man that has been doing that for years. 

The Patriots have not had a very good roster in over a decade as they have not drafted well and have not done well in free agency, on the whole. 

I'm also saying that if Tom Brady wasn't in New England for all those years, Bill wouldn't be in New England either for those reasons.  Brady covered up a lot of the holes and mistakes that were made by management.  Bill's time in New England would have looked an awful lot like his time in Cleveland if Tom Brady doesn't fall to them in the 6th round.  Drafting Brady was a great move and one Bill deserves immense credit for, but it was also over 20 years ago.

This is truly an odd & mind-boggling statement considering the past decade has brought 5 Super Bowl appearances, 3 Super Bowl championships, & more wins than any other franchise in the NFL during that time period. 

You're seemingly discrediting everyone but Brady.

The QB is the most important position in the sport.  A great QB covers up a lot of problems.  Look at the Colts 10-6 playoff team to 2-14 when Manning goes down.  Same coach, same roster, except for the QB.    New England 12-4 to 7-9 when Brady leaves (with a former MVP manning the helm after Brady) and inversely Tampa goes from 7-9 to 11-5 and winning the Superbowl.  The best QB in the history of the game makes up for an awful lot of problems on the roster.  The problems on the roster have been there for years.  I mean Bill basically acknowledged that at the press conference yesterday when he said Tampa was a better option than staying in New England for Brady, and while he didn't say it, he pretty clearly meant because of the roster.

Let's say a great QB is worth 8 wins over a dreg and 4 or 5 wins over an average QB.  I think that is a fair approximation of value.  That to me really shows what I've been saying.  The Patriots haven't had a good roster in a decade, yet were near the top of the sport because of Brady.  I absolutely believe that.  As we've seen time and time again the difference a quality QB can make to a roster.

[celticsclay]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

Isn't this conversation relative to the rest of the league? Are you comparing Belichick to God in a vacuum? I guess God wins that one.

No I'm saying the mess of a roster that is New England is a direct result of the man who put that roster together.  And that is the same man that has been doing that for years. 

The Patriots have not had a very good roster in over a decade as they have not drafted well and have not done well in free agency, on the whole. 

I'm also saying that if Tom Brady wasn't in New England for all those years, Bill wouldn't be in New England either for those reasons.  Brady covered up a lot of the holes and mistakes that were made by management.  Bill's time in New England would have looked an awful lot like his time in Cleveland if Tom Brady doesn't fall to them in the 6th round.  Drafting Brady was a great move and one Bill deserves immense credit for, but it was also over 20 years ago.

This is truly an odd & mind-boggling statement considering the past decade has brought 5 Super Bowl appearances, 3 Super Bowl championships, & more wins than any other franchise in the NFL during that time period. 

You're seemingly discrediting everyone but Brady.

The QB is the most important position in the sport.  A great QB covers up a lot of problems.  Look at the Colts 10-6 playoff team to 2-14 when Manning goes down.  Same coach, same roster, except for the QB.    New England 12-4 to 7-9 when Brady leaves (with a former MVP manning the helm after Brady) and inversely Tampa goes from 7-9 to 11-5 and winning the Superbowl.  The best QB in the history of the game makes up for an awful lot of problems on the roster.  The problems on the roster have been there for years.  I mean Bill basically acknowledged that at the press conference yesterday when he said Tampa was a better option than staying in New England for Brady, and while he didn't say it, he pretty clearly meant because of the roster.

Let's say a great QB is worth 8 wins over a dreg and 4 or 5 wins over an average QB.  I think that is a fair approximation of value.  That to me really shows what I've been saying.  The Patriots haven't had a good roster in a decade, yet were near the top of the sport because of Brady.  I absolutely believe that.  As we've seen time and time again the difference a quality QB can make to a roster.

There is so much wrong here it is hard to even know where to begin. For starters, I am curious if you even follow the Patriots very closely, because the 2020 roster was dramatically different than the 2019 roster. They had high profile players sit out because of covid (Hightower and Chung who were both key to their team in 2019). Due to injuries they had Edelman, their only reliable target go from 100 catches and 1100 yards to starting one game. They lost Jamie Collins who had 7 sacks and 3 interceptions for the pats in 2019. They also lost Kyle van noy to the dolphins on a massive contract, and even though he is not a world beater lost their starting running back for half the season. The point about how these great quarterbacks always getting super bowl and championships is also particularly comical. We have had guys like Jimmy g, foles, Geoff in the super bowl in the last couple of year while players like rodgers, Brees and Peyton Manning have made 6 super bowl appearances in like 55 seasons combined (and in one of Manning’s appearances and wins he was clearly a below average player). The idea these guys just roll championships is a hot take even by your max kellerman like standards.

[SparzWizard]

Richard Sherman to the Bucs is a done deal! That should put a bandaid to their atrocious defense

[Roy H.]

Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Mary J. Blige and Kendrick Lamar will perform for the first time on stage together at the Pepsi Super Bowl Halftime Show.

[gouki88]

Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Mary J. Blige and Kendrick Lamar will perform for the first time on stage together at the Pepsi Super Bowl Halftime Show.

Pretty huge names. Snoop should be limited to only performing his old stuff though, before he got weird with it

[nickagneta]

Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Mary J. Blige and Kendrick Lamar will perform for the first time on stage together at the Pepsi Super Bowl Halftime Show.

Pretty huge names. Snoop should be limited to only performing his old stuff though, before he got weird with it

I hope Dre and Snoop do some Chronic shiznit

[Moranis]

That will be a very strange halftime show if they all do perform

[Neurotic Guy]

That will be a very strange halftime show if they all do perform

I never watch halftime. Well… I watched Paul McCartney whenever that was.  I can’t name a song by any of those named as halftime performers. And other than Snoop Dogg who I know from Trailer Park Boys i wouldn’t know any of the others if I tripped over them. So no halftime for me.