NFL 2021 Season

[nickagneta]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

6 Super Bowl wins in 20 years but he has mostly failed as a GM?

Wow!

What would he have needed to do to be considered a success as a GM, win 15 Super Bowls in 20 years?

[footey]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Wasn't his decision to draft Tom Brady made in his capacity as GM?

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

[nickagneta]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Even pretty good is selling him low. 6 SBs as a GM is unprecedented. He might actually get in the HoF as both a coach and GM.

[SparzWizard]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

6 Super Bowl wins in 20 years but he has mostly failed as a GM?

Wow!

What would he have needed to do to be considered a success as a GM, win 15 Super Bowls in 20 years?

Considering the years he's had Brady, possibly. 2011 he didn't improve the defense. 2017 his ego got too big. 2019 didn't do zilch on the roster for the offense.

[Moranis]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill. 

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Just to make sure- you're talking about the same roster that won 3 Super Bowls in 10 years?

I don't understand how you can come to your conclusion when they've been the most successful team over those 10 years. If the roster hasn't been very good, who has been better?

[Goldstar88]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Sure, but how how did the defense look last year and this year so far? Looked pretty pathetic yesterday against a bad team. On the flip side, Bill seems to be inept when it comes to the offense, especially when drafting skill position players. Shouldn’t he know both sides of the ball, especially in a league that now favors the offense so much? At what point do you hold Bill responsible for the FA signings not working out and a poor roster construction. I mean he’s the coach and GM.

[Donoghus]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

[Moranis]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

Isn't this conversation relative to the rest of the league? Are you comparing Belichick to God in a vacuum? I guess God wins that one.

[Donoghus]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

Probably due to lack of wins, division championships, conference championships, Super Bowl championships.

Something like that.

[Moranis]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

Isn't this conversation relative to the rest of the league? Are you comparing Belichick to God in a vacuum? I guess God wins that one.

No I'm saying the mess of a roster that is New England is a direct result of the man who put that roster together.  And that is the same man that has been doing that for years. 

The Patriots have not had a very good roster in over a decade as they have not drafted well and have not done well in free agency, on the whole. 

I'm also saying that if Tom Brady wasn't in New England for all those years, Bill wouldn't be in New England either for those reasons.  Brady covered up a lot of the holes and mistakes that were made by management.  Bill's time in New England would have looked an awful lot like his time in Cleveland if Tom Brady doesn't fall to them in the 6th round.  Drafting Brady was a great move and one Bill deserves immense credit for, but it was also over 20 years ago. 

[nickagneta]

These takes are hilarious. I think even Tom Brady would laugh at them.

More than any other sport, football is not about only one player even if you have the greatest QB of all time. Without excellent offensive lines, receivers and backs, Brady couldn't have achieved the greatness that he did. Without great defenses, the team doesn't win all those Super Bowls.

Without Bill, those other great players on the offensive side of the ball and those defenses, Brady could easily only have been Dan Marino or Jim Kelly great because he wouldn't have all those Super Bowl wins and we would all be of the belief that Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time.

[Donoghus]

Mac Jones is supposed to be an accurate, heady player. He was neither of those today vs the Saints.

Given his limited physical tools ( height, arm strength and speed all very limited), he needs to bring both his accuracy and headiness to EVERY game, or he will continue to suck as he did today.

Did you just check the box score and not actually watch any of the game? The offensive line is not protecting Mac at all. He has no time to throw the ball and spent much of the game on his back. Two of the interceptions were on the WR’s. I’m not sure if there is a team in the NFL with a worse receiving corp. Agholor barely has 100 yards through 3 games, Bourne shows up for the first time today. Jonnu has been awful and Henry just Meh. The defensive line doesn’t look any better and other than Judon no one is pressuring the opposing QB. Overall the FA signings this year look bad. I expected the offense to struggle with a rookie QB and a lot of new pieces, but the defense? Team seems really poorly constructed.

well 15+ years of garbage roster moves will do that.

Ummmm..... How many have done it better than Belichick over the last 15+ years? It wasn't just Tom Brady. It was the New England Patriots winning all of those Super Bowls.

Belichick’s record without Brady.... 54-61

Bet a lot of coaches would have looked pretty [dang] good if they had the greatest QB of all time for 20 years.

There is a whole side of the football team that Brady doesn't play on that Belichick coached and developed, besides coaching and developing Brady. It's called the defensive side of the ball.

Without Belichick's excellent defenses, Brady ain't winning nearly as much. And let's not forget Belichick had two SB rings as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator, so saw success already as a coach.

Bill is an excellent defensive coach, but he is a horrid GM and always has been.  There is a reason teams don't let their coaches be the GM very often, and that reason it is it just doesn't work because there isn't enough time in the day to effectively do both.  One is always going to suffer.  Bill would be much better served just being a coach because he failed as a GM in Cleveland and he has mostly failed as a GM in New England.  Tom Brady really did cover for a lot of the roster problems, which are pretty clearly present now without the goat QB to bail the team out.

Agree to disagree.

Look at all of guys that Belichick has picked off the scrap heap. Many have contributed to winning. Bill consistently had one of the worst draft positions over 20 years, and still was able to make some of the best draft picks in the NFL during that time.

-Edelman
-Gronk
-McCourty
-Asante Samuel
-Vince Wilfork
-Mankins
-Hightower
-Kopen
-Jamie Collins
-Chandler Jones

He also signed/traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Ninkovich, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, etc. etc.

I think you are forgetting the past when you say he's not a good GM.

Yes, he's had a tough run as of late (even Kraft made this point). Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Belichick has been an excellent GM overall, with a tough stretch over the last couple of years. Let's not be spoiled here people. 6 rings is pretty good.

Most of the great moves were made before Pioli left.  The team has been mostly a disaster (from a roster standpoint) since Pioli went to KC, which is what 13 seasons, which is what I was trying to say (though obviously did it poorly), when I was referring to 15 seasons (and I know there have been some excellent selections like Gronk, Edelman, and Jones since then, but not nearly as many as there should be or that other teams get). 

The roster has been mostly a disaster since Pioli left and Bill took on far more control of it.  Brady was just so good that he overcame the significant roster issues.  And Bill is an excellent defensive coach, one of the best ever at that, which also helps.  The roster though, just hasn't been very good over the last decade or so and that is on Bill.

Now do the other 31 NFL teams in the past 15 years.

Yeah and for the most part they all pretty much have fired their GM because they weren't cutting it.

Isn't this conversation relative to the rest of the league? Are you comparing Belichick to God in a vacuum? I guess God wins that one.

No I'm saying the mess of a roster that is New England is a direct result of the man who put that roster together.  And that is the same man that has been doing that for years. 

The Patriots have not had a very good roster in over a decade as they have not drafted well and have not done well in free agency, on the whole. 

I'm also saying that if Tom Brady wasn't in New England for all those years, Bill wouldn't be in New England either for those reasons.  Brady covered up a lot of the holes and mistakes that were made by management.  Bill's time in New England would have looked an awful lot like his time in Cleveland if Tom Brady doesn't fall to them in the 6th round.  Drafting Brady was a great move and one Bill deserves immense credit for, but it was also over 20 years ago.

This is truly an odd & mind-boggling statement considering the past decade has brought 5 Super Bowl appearances, 3 Super Bowl championships, & more wins than any other franchise in the NFL during that time period. 

You're seemingly discrediting everyone but Brady.