Author Topic: Tatum and Brown Pick n roll/pop  (Read 1425 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Tatum and Brown Pick n roll/pop
« on: February 25, 2021, 12:03:08 AM »

Offline sirnastee

  • Payton Pritchard
  • Posts: 108
  • Tommy Points: 6
As I watch Brown and Tatum on the floor at the same time, it drives me crazy how one of them stands on the 3pt baseline while the other does his thing.  Especially when Tatum has the ball, Brown is always just standing in the 3 point line, out of the play.  Its like they take turns each possession on who gets to iso or shoot the ball for that possession.  Brad needs to some how find ways to get these two involved in the play at the same time, whether it is Brown and Tatum picking for each other to start movement. 

Re: Tatum and Brown Pick n roll/pop
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2021, 12:28:09 PM »

Offline RJ87

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11954
  • Tommy Points: 1431
  • Let's Go Celtics!
The benefit of the pick & roll is to force defensive mismatches. A Kemba/Theis pick & roll would in theory force a slower big to guard kemba and a smaller player on Theis. Brown and Tatum pick & roll wouldn't force the same mismatch. For instance, if we're playing the Clippers, the Jays would likely be defended by PG or Kawhi, both of those guys could switch easily.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Tatum and Brown Pick n roll/pop
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2021, 12:37:10 PM »

Offline td450

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2330
  • Tommy Points: 254
The benefit of the pick & roll is to force defensive mismatches. A Kemba/Theis pick & roll would in theory force a slower big to guard kemba and a smaller player on Theis. Brown and Tatum pick & roll wouldn't force the same mismatch. For instance, if we're playing the Clippers, the Jays would likely be defended by PG or Kawhi, both of those guys could switch easily.

Larry Bird and Kevin McHale managed to do OK with it. If the offensive players are skilled enough at their reads, it's impossible to defend, whether a size mismatch is created or not.

Re: Tatum and Brown Pick n roll/pop
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2021, 12:59:05 PM »

Offline RJ87

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11954
  • Tommy Points: 1431
  • Let's Go Celtics!
The benefit of the pick & roll is to force defensive mismatches. A Kemba/Theis pick & roll would in theory force a slower big to guard kemba and a smaller player on Theis. Brown and Tatum pick & roll wouldn't force the same mismatch. For instance, if we're playing the Clippers, the Jays would likely be defended by PG or Kawhi, both of those guys could switch easily.

Larry Bird and Kevin McHale managed to do OK with it. If the offensive players are skilled enough at their reads, it's impossible to defend, whether a size mismatch is created or not.

The game has changed in the 30+ years since then. The skill level of the game has improved all around. Defensive wings are bigger and more athletic. Sure, you can put the Jays in a pick & roll but I don't think its going to be as dynamic of play as it might've been in the 80's.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Tatum and Brown Pick n roll/pop
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2021, 01:17:13 PM »

Offline Chief

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21257
  • Tommy Points: 2451
They need to run more motion
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Re: Tatum and Brown Pick n roll/pop
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2021, 02:13:35 PM »

Offline JBJT619

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 200
  • Tommy Points: 8
The benefit of the pick & roll is to force defensive mismatches. A Kemba/Theis pick & roll would in theory force a slower big to guard kemba and a smaller player on Theis. Brown and Tatum pick & roll wouldn't force the same mismatch. For instance, if we're playing the Clippers, the Jays would likely be defended by PG or Kawhi, both of those guys could switch easily.

That's not necessarily the only thing that pick and rolls/pops are used for. When you have ballhandlers and scorers like Tatum and Brown attacking downhill or as threats to pull up out of these pick and roll situations you can catch defenses in vulnerable situations were they either hedge too hard and gets split, aren't up enough on the ballhandler and allow a pull up, the defenders shade too hard to the ballhandler and give up a more open 3 to the pop man, or at worst you could get your ballhandler downhill attacking the defender. Also wouldn't allow them to double because of the threat Jaylen is as a spot up shooter.

I think it's a really good idea and if you look at top notch duos throughout the league you see a KD/Kyrie or Harden/KD pick and roll is very effective, the LBJ/Wade Pick and roll was basically unstoppable, and the Steph/KD pick and roll was deadly as well. When you have lethal shooters like the Js popping and athletic enough to play both 3/4 they should be used in various ways including this.

Re: Tatum and Brown Pick n roll/pop
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2021, 02:25:21 PM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7819
  • Tommy Points: 562
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
The benefit of the pick & roll is to force defensive mismatches. A Kemba/Theis pick & roll would in theory force a slower big to guard kemba and a smaller player on Theis. Brown and Tatum pick & roll wouldn't force the same mismatch. For instance, if we're playing the Clippers, the Jays would likely be defended by PG or Kawhi, both of those guys could switch easily.

That's not necessarily the only thing that pick and rolls/pops are used for. When you have ballhandlers and scorers like Tatum and Brown attacking downhill or as threats to pull up out of these pick and roll situations you can catch defenses in vulnerable situations were they either hedge too hard and gets split, aren't up enough on the ballhandler and allow a pull up, the defenders shade too hard to the ballhandler and give up a more open 3 to the pop man, or at worst you could get your ballhandler downhill attacking the defender. Also wouldn't allow them to double because of the threat Jaylen is as a spot up shooter.

I think it's a really good idea and if you look at top notch duos throughout the league you see a KD/Kyrie or Harden/KD pick and roll is very effective, the LBJ/Wade Pick and roll was basically unstoppable, and the Steph/KD pick and roll was deadly as well. When you have lethal shooters like the Js popping and athletic enough to play both 3/4 they should be used in various ways including this.
You might want to check the names you've thrown out there - all of those players you've mentioned are exponentially better than Tatum and Brown offensively with the exception of Kyrie. I think your post has merit, but the players executing these actions must have their reads on point to consistently punish defences and I don't think that Jaylen/Tatum can do that reliably against elite defences yet, ntm that I don't think Tatum has any idea of how to play as a screener (a lot of possessions that I've seen of him as the screener either end up in him standing at the three point line waiting for a swing pass for him to iso/a high-viscosity post up taking advantage of a mismatch, neither play gives you the fluid read and react offence you suggested in your post). I think it's something that can be explored because the Jays are still fantastic players, but I'm not enthused with the idea of going all the way with this like those duos did.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Tatum and Brown Pick n roll/pop
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2021, 03:53:45 PM »

Offline Wretch

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 528
  • Tommy Points: 42
I would much prefer JT or JB to set screens for Kemba or Pritchard and force smaller players to switch onto JT/JB.