Gorman isn’t happy - went off on Tatum/Brown

[footey]

Mike Gorman is spot on. He basically said what a lot of people here have been saying all along. It’s up to the team now to respond. John Collins is questionable to play tom and I expect the Cs to annihilate the Hawks. Anything less than a beatdown would be disappointing.

Why? Because Collins is out? He was pretty invisible in the prior two games. 

[CF033]

Flat out, most of our bench would be playing G League on other teams.

The Celts have much bigger problems than the Js.

[footey]

I think the "ball stopping" is a little overblown when you consider this league and esp. we used to have this player his name was paul pierce and whenever we needed a basket we'd dump it into him and he'd get us something most of the time.

I think gorman forgets this a lil bit. In his defense I think he's more upset with the result, I think brown and tatum settle for a pull up jumper too much. Tatum is almost guaranteed to go for a fadeaway. But even brown too  instead of driving all the way will pull up in the paint and shoot that lil jumper.

And that's the problem with this team and no matter who the players are, it's the kind of offense they're told to play. But we have all these winning seasons that say otherwise so I must be wrong.

Those years when Pierce did that we were generally a pretty mediocre team. He did it a lot less when Big 3 came. Those teams passed the ball well.

[footey]

I don't know, Jaylen has been kicking the ball to open guys a lot lately. It seems like at least he's been making the effort lately to get others involved.

IMO it's just as much to do with the level of talent of the guys outside of our top 2 as well (top 3 when and if Kemba returns to normal).

The Js assists usually comes as a last resort.

Yes, I think their high assist numbers are more a function on their excessive usage.  Particularly Tatum.

[Kuberski33]

We're getting some insight into why the Timberwolves - for all their alleged talent - stink year after year after year. Hopefully the Celtics aren't headed that same way.

[footey]

One play last night really told all.  Tatum basically cries for Pritchard to let him (Tatum) bring the ball up to set up the offense, and of course Pritchard deferred to him. Tatum walks the ball up, and instead of setting up play, tries to score (unsuccessfully). Not a single pass.  Ugly hoops.

Best stint of the night was when Tatum and Brown were benched together (probably for the first time this season) and the ball really started moving around. Pritchard and Walker were playing together, and both were really moving it.  Then Tatum checks back in and back to the iso crap.

[footey]

Flat out, most of our bench would be playing G League on other teams.

The Celts have much bigger problems than the Js.

Total myth and fiction. Most of our guys (Semi, Nesmith, Pritchard, Rob Williams, Grant Williams, Javonte) would get minutes, some more than others, on most other teams.  The two way guys wouldn't, but that is true of most other two way guys. The only guy who probably would have trouble finding roster spot is Carson Edwards, and some team would probably take a flyer on him (Cavs lol) based on college rep.

[slamtheking]

I think Walker should have been thrown into the discussion as well.

Tatum and Brown are going to end up with the ball almost all the time on offense for either a shot or assist simply because their talent level is so much higher than the rest of the team.  I don't have an issue with that.  The concern is all the time they use up holding the ball or dribbling it to death trying to make a move.  Need to keep that ball moving and they have to make sure other players on the team get some shots where they're most effective.  Theis shouldn't be launching 3's.  TT shouldn't be trying to overpower 2-3 people in the post.  Nesmith shouldn't be playing over 20 minutes in a game without getting a single shot attempt.

a big part of this that's going unmentioned is the team bricking open shots.  I hate the offensive philosophy of bombing away from 3 regardless of whether the shots are falling or not.  if the 3's aren't falling, move in for a mid-range 2 that's easier to make.  a made 2-pointer is worth more than a missed 3.

[Tr1boy]

One play last night really told all.  Tatum basically cries for Pritchard to let him (Tatum) bring the ball up to set up the offense, and of course Pritchard deferred to him. Tatum walks the ball up, and instead of setting up play, tries to score (unsuccessfully). Not a single pass.  Ugly hoops.

Best stint of the night was when Tatum and Brown were benched together (probably for the first time this season) and the ball really started moving around. Pritchard and Walker were playing together, and both were really moving it.  Then Tatum checks back in and back to the iso crap.

In order for Tatum to abide by team basketball rules.  He needs to be told by a higher position....which isn't happening (consistently)

Or Celtics have to get a better PG than Walker

If Walker was Chris Paul or Draymond Green, everytime one of the Jays came around the screen asking for the ball. They would shoo them away.  Not everytime but a good chunk of the time to get the offensive set/system flowing

There is little to no flow on offense and can be easily anticipated.  Which leads to low energy team defense.   Jays also expend extra energy to try to do too much on the offensive end that leads to weaker defensive effort and focus

[CF033]

Flat out, most of our bench would be playing G League on other teams.

The Celts have much bigger problems than the Js.

Total myth and fiction. Most of our guys (Semi, Nesmith, Pritchard, Rob Williams, Grant Williams, Javonte) would get minutes, some more than others, on most other teams.  The two way guys wouldn't, but that is true of most other two way guys. The only guy who probably would have trouble finding roster spot is Carson Edwards, and some team would probably take a flyer on him (Cavs lol) based on college rep.

All right, I'll put it this way. Most of them are not anywhere near being #6 in the rotation like a Marcus Smart or even Marcus Morris. They're mostly end-of-bencher type players that you'd put in during garbage time.

Not saying that guys like Pritchard and Nesmith couldn't move up the ranks but they aren't there yet.

Though I will give you Rob Williams has been pretty good this season.

[Tr1boy]

Flat out, most of our bench would be playing G League on other teams.

The Celts have much bigger problems than the Js.

Total myth and fiction. Most of our guys (Semi, Nesmith, Pritchard, Rob Williams, Grant Williams, Javonte) would get minutes, some more than others, on most other teams.  The two way guys wouldn't, but that is true of most other two way guys. The only guy who probably would have trouble finding roster spot is Carson Edwards, and some team would probably take a flyer on him (Cavs lol) based on college rep.

All right, I'll put it this way. None of them are anywhere near being #6 in the rotation like a Marcus Smart or even Marcus Morris. They're mostly end-of-bencher type players that you'd put in during garbage time.

Not saying that a guy like Pritchard couldn't move up the ranks but he's not there yet.

Grant is shooting the 3 at over 40 percent

Semi is usually good with the open 3. I believe he is shooting at 37 percent

Nesmith was drafted because he was considered the best 3 pt shooter of the draft

Pritchard a quality 3 pt shooter


Yet they have all stood around collecting dust these days.   Nesmith on several occasions last night was wide open. 

Let me ask you.  If the team had Doncic instead of Jays/Walker.  Do you think he would let them collect dust?

[Kuberski33]

Flat out, most of our bench would be playing G League on other teams.

The Celts have much bigger problems than the Js.

Total myth and fiction. Most of our guys (Semi, Nesmith, Pritchard, Rob Williams, Grant Williams, Javonte) would get minutes, some more than others, on most other teams.  The two way guys wouldn't, but that is true of most other two way guys. The only guy who probably would have trouble finding roster spot is Carson Edwards, and some team would probably take a flyer on him (Cavs lol) based on college rep.

All right, I'll put it this way. None of them are anywhere near being #6 in the rotation like a Marcus Smart or even Marcus Morris. They're mostly end-of-bencher type players that you'd put in during garbage time.

Not saying that a guy like Pritchard couldn't move up the ranks but he's not there yet.

Grant is shooting the 3 at over 40 percent

Semi is usually good with the open 3. I believe he is shooting at 37 percent

Nesmith was drafted because he was considered the best 3 pt shooter of the draft

Pritchard a quality 3 pt shooter


Yet they have all stood around collecting dust these days.   Nesmith on several occasions last night was wide open. 

Let me ask you.  If the team had Doncic instead of Jays/Walker.  Do you think he would let them collect dust?

Nesmith didn't attempt a shot last night yet played 22 minutes.  How can that happen?

[LilRip]

One play last night really told all.  Tatum basically cries for Pritchard to let him (Tatum) bring the ball up to set up the offense, and of course Pritchard deferred to him. Tatum walks the ball up, and instead of setting up play, tries to score (unsuccessfully). Not a single pass.  Ugly hoops.

Best stint of the night was when Tatum and Brown were benched together (probably for the first time this season) and the ball really started moving around. Pritchard and Walker were playing together, and both were really moving it.  Then Tatum checks back in and back to the iso crap.

In order for Tatum to abide by team basketball rules.  He needs to be told by a higher position....which isn't happening (consistently)

Or Celtics have to get a better PG than Walker

If Walker was Chris Paul or Draymond Green, everytime one of the Jays came around the screen asking for the ball. They would shoo them away.  Not everytime but a good chunk of the time to get the offensive set/system flowing

There is little to no flow on offense and can be easily anticipated.  Which leads to low energy team defense.   Jays also expend extra energy to try to do too much on the offensive end

And this is how you lose lol

Sure, get the ball out of the hands out of your best players and have guys like Pritchard create. Never mind that PP already has a hard time making an entry pass to the post 

This team’s offense is usually fine. We don’t always struggle to get points. That said, this team’s offense has historically relied on all star PG’s (IT4, Kyrie, Kemba) to do a lot of the damage and we can’t just put Tatum or Brown in the same action and expect the same results. I think the coaching staff needs to start figure out how to put the 2 all star wings in better positions to find more success while DA needs to do a better job equipping them with the personnel to execute that game plan.

[LilRip]

Flat out, most of our bench would be playing G League on other teams.

The Celts have much bigger problems than the Js.

Total myth and fiction. Most of our guys (Semi, Nesmith, Pritchard, Rob Williams, Grant Williams, Javonte) would get minutes, some more than others, on most other teams.  The two way guys wouldn't, but that is true of most other two way guys. The only guy who probably would have trouble finding roster spot is Carson Edwards, and some team would probably take a flyer on him (Cavs lol) based on college rep.

All right, I'll put it this way. None of them are anywhere near being #6 in the rotation like a Marcus Smart or even Marcus Morris. They're mostly end-of-bencher type players that you'd put in during garbage time.

Not saying that a guy like Pritchard couldn't move up the ranks but he's not there yet.

Grant is shooting the 3 at over 40 percent

Semi is usually good with the open 3. I believe he is shooting at 37 percent

Nesmith was drafted because he was considered the best 3 pt shooter of the draft

Pritchard a quality 3 pt shooter


Yet they have all stood around collecting dust these days.   Nesmith on several occasions last night was wide open. 

Let me ask you.  If the team had Doncic instead of Jays/Walker.  Do you think he would let them collect dust?

Nope but are you telling me if we traded Tatum AND Brown AND Walker for Doncic, the team would have a better record?

[CF033]

Flat out, most of our bench would be playing G League on other teams.

The Celts have much bigger problems than the Js.

Total myth and fiction. Most of our guys (Semi, Nesmith, Pritchard, Rob Williams, Grant Williams, Javonte) would get minutes, some more than others, on most other teams.  The two way guys wouldn't, but that is true of most other two way guys. The only guy who probably would have trouble finding roster spot is Carson Edwards, and some team would probably take a flyer on him (Cavs lol) based on college rep.

All right, I'll put it this way. None of them are anywhere near being #6 in the rotation like a Marcus Smart or even Marcus Morris. They're mostly end-of-bencher type players that you'd put in during garbage time.

Not saying that a guy like Pritchard couldn't move up the ranks but he's not there yet.

Grant is shooting the 3 at over 40 percent

Semi is usually good with the open 3. I believe he is shooting at 37 percent

Nesmith was drafted because he was considered the best 3 pt shooter of the draft

Pritchard a quality 3 pt shooter


Yet they have all stood around collecting dust these days.   Nesmith on several occasions last night was wide open. 

Let me ask you.  If the team had Doncic instead of Jays/Walker.  Do you think he would let them collect dust?

No doubt Doncic is a much better playmaker than the Js and is better at getting the team involved. Whether he could turn our bench into a competitive unit that is up for debate.

It's not a slight against the bench really- they are very young and some are later draft picks like Edwards and Waters. Grant Williams I feel is on the edge of being a good player and I think Pritchard is going to be very good. Rob Williams has def been good, he's incredibly athletic. Semi is Semi, he's solid but he's not going to blow anyone away, I see him as Jay Crowder light (in game not muscle lol). I also thing Nesmith is going to be good, he just needs more experience.

A lot is just inexperience.