Is Tatum playing out of position?

[moiso]

Tatum is already a significantly better player than Prince ever was.  It is quite simply disrespectful to compare Tatum to Prince.  He isn't much worse than Butler (if at all) right now and isn't that far away from part-time Leonard.

I guess you already forgot what Butler did to the Celtics in the playoffs

Leonard is a world champion and running on one good leg at this point of his career

Tatum has ways to go.  A very good 1 on 1 talent. But there is a lot more to NBA basketball than 1 on 1 ball

right now he needs figure out how to beat traps/double teams and make the correct read/pass the ball out quickly/consistently

Maybe you forgot what what Tatum did to the Heat in that series.  Butler had one huge game which was awesome, but he was average for most of the series.  Tatum 27/10/5, Butler 19/6/5.  Not even close in that series.

Oh brother

Its not only about stat totals

Butler had more impact in that series

No he did not. Not even close

Do a polling

That one game made a huge impression on a lot of people and it's the main thing they remember from that series.  I remember thinking Butler wasn't all that special for the majority of the series. 

[jambr380]

Tatum is already a significantly better player than Prince ever was.  It is quite simply disrespectful to compare Tatum to Prince.  He isn't much worse than Butler (if at all) right now and isn't that far away from part-time Leonard.

I guess you already forgot what Butler did to the Celtics in the playoffs

Leonard is a world champion and running on one good leg at this point of his career

Tatum has ways to go.  A very good 1 on 1 talent. But there is a lot more to NBA basketball than 1 on 1 ball

right now he needs figure out how to beat traps/double teams and make the correct read/pass the ball out quickly/consistently

Maybe you forgot what what Tatum did to the Heat in that series.  Butler had one huge game which was awesome, but he was average for most of the series.  Tatum 27/10/5, Butler 19/6/5.  Not even close in that series.

Oh brother

Its not only about stat totals

Butler had more impact in that series

No he did not. Not even close

Do a polling

That one game made a huge impression on a lot of people and it's the main thing they remember from that series.  I remember thinking Butler wasn't all that special for the majority of the series.

Yeah, I thought Tatum easily outplayed Butler in that series. It was Bam, Herro, Robinson, and Dragic that killed us. Crunch time was also our demise - we just as easily could have won that series in 6. Tatum was still doing his stupid iso 35-ft fall-away buzzer 3s at that point; he wasn't great on Sunday, but he showed some maturity on how to get better looks at the end of the game.

As for the thread, I don't think it really matters with Tatum. Brown is usually going to take the harder 1-1 match up on Defense (see Siakam in TOR series), so I am just happy to have versatile two-way star wings, whatever position they are.

[Moranis]

Tatum is already a significantly better player than Prince ever was.  It is quite simply disrespectful to compare Tatum to Prince.  He isn't much worse than Butler (if at all) right now and isn't that far away from part-time Leonard.

I guess you already forgot what Butler did to the Celtics in the playoffs

Leonard is a world champion and running on one good leg at this point of his career

Tatum has ways to go.  A very good 1 on 1 talent. But there is a lot more to NBA basketball than 1 on 1 ball

right now he needs figure out how to beat traps/double teams and make the correct read/pass the ball out quickly/consistently

Maybe you forgot what what Tatum did to the Heat in that series.  Butler had one huge game which was awesome, but he was average for most of the series.  Tatum 27/10/5, Butler 19/6/5.  Not even close in that series.

Oh brother

Its not only about stat totals

Butler had more impact in that series

No he did not. Not even close

Do a polling

That one game made a huge impression on a lot of people and it's the main thing they remember from that series.  I remember thinking Butler wasn't all that special for the majority of the series.

Butler was -3 in the series until the last game when he was +18, so +15 overall.  Tatum was +9 in the series (he was -10 in game 6).  Neither one of them played particularly well in that game 6 either.  Butler didn't lead the Heat in any category and was 4th in ppg.  Tatum led the C's in 4 of the 5 major categories and was 2nd in steals.  Tatum's impact was just greater.  Now that doesn't mean Tatum is better than Butler, but they are certainly very close.

[knuckleballer]

Tatum is already a significantly better player than Prince ever was.  It is quite simply disrespectful to compare Tatum to Prince.  He isn't much worse than Butler (if at all) right now and isn't that far away from part-time Leonard.

I guess you already forgot what Butler did to the Celtics in the playoffs

Leonard is a world champion and running on one good leg at this point of his career

Tatum has ways to go.  A very good 1 on 1 talent. But there is a lot more to NBA basketball than 1 on 1 ball

right now he needs figure out how to beat traps/double teams and make the correct read/pass the ball out quickly/consistently

Maybe you forgot what what Tatum did to the Heat in that series.  Butler had one huge game which was awesome, but he was average for most of the series.  Tatum 27/10/5, Butler 19/6/5.  Not even close in that series.

Oh brother

Its not only about stat totals

Butler had more impact in that series

Butler was the better player in that series.  He was also 30 years old while Tatum was 21.  Tatum is 22 this year.  When Butler was 22, he averaged 2.6 ppg in the NBA.  We need to have patience with him.  He’s still learning.

[nickagneta]

I wish Danny would call Pierce and ask him to spend some time with Tatum  (and Brown)

Pierce was an excellent passer for a wing.   He dealt with his fare share of double teams

Pierce's assist percentage didn't hit 20% until his fifth season at age 25. Jayson and Jaylen both hit assist percentages of over 20% this year, their age 22 and fourth year and age 24 and fifth year respectively.

So at a younger age, the Jays are developing close to the same passing and playmaking ability of Pierce at a slightly older age already.

Like Pierce, the Jays just need more time ball handling so they can learn to playmaker for others more and more.

And with Jaylen it looks like it might be paying off now. In January Brown averaged 3.5 assists per game. In February that number is now 4.5 assists per game. Over the last 7 games that number rises to 5.3 assists per game. Over the last 4 games Brown is averaging 6.8 assists per game. Brown has led the team in assists in almost one third the games the Celtics have played this year.

[Tr1boy]

I wish Danny would call Pierce and ask him to spend some time with Tatum  (and Brown)

Pierce was an excellent passer for a wing.   He dealt with his fare share of double teams

Pierce's assist percentage didn't hit 20% until his fifth season at age 25. Jayson and Jaylen both hit assist percentages of over 20% this year, their age 22 and fourth year and age 24 and fifth year respectively.

So at a younger age, the Jays are developing close to the same passing and playmaking ability of Pierce at a slightly older age already.

Like Pierce, the Jays just need more time ball handling so they can learn to playmaker for others more and more.

And with Jaylen it looks like it might be paying off now. In January Brown averaged 3.5 assists per game. In February that number is now 4.5 assists per game. Over the last 7 games that number rises to 5.3 assists per game. Over the last 4 games Brown is averaging 6.8 assists per game. Brown has led the team in assists in almost one third the games the Celtics have played this year.

Nice details you laid out

Numbers and stats are nice but I meant more about reads and making the right plays

It shouldnt matter if that 1st pass out from the double team leads to an assist.  Its about the right play. Then its the next player job to either score or make the next correct play etc.  Making the opposing D pay a price for attempting to double team

Its the same with zone D.  There may not be the sexy 3 or drive to bucket and one opportunities. There is a gap somewhere

What I see from Tatum is struggle/difficulty beating the double team trap (eating valuable seconds).   Or he doesnt want to give up the ball.   In both cases it is not the ideal read.

You sacrifice your own stats in these situations. Basically on a double team - you are taken out of the equation.  Once the other guys hit open shots,  the double team likely goes away.

[Tr1boy]

Tatum is already a significantly better player than Prince ever was.  It is quite simply disrespectful to compare Tatum to Prince.  He isn't much worse than Butler (if at all) right now and isn't that far away from part-time Leonard.

I guess you already forgot what Butler did to the Celtics in the playoffs

Leonard is a world champion and running on one good leg at this point of his career

Tatum has ways to go.  A very good 1 on 1 talent. But there is a lot more to NBA basketball than 1 on 1 ball

right now he needs figure out how to beat traps/double teams and make the correct read/pass the ball out quickly/consistently

Maybe you forgot what what Tatum did to the Heat in that series.  Butler had one huge game which was awesome, but he was average for most of the series.  Tatum 27/10/5, Butler 19/6/5.  Not even close in that series.

Oh brother

Its not only about stat totals

Butler had more impact in that series

No he did not. Not even close

Do a polling

That one game made a huge impression on a lot of people and it's the main thing they remember from that series.  I remember thinking Butler wasn't all that special for the majority of the series.

Yeah, I thought Tatum easily outplayed Butler in that series. It was Bam, Herro, Robinson, and Dragic that killed us. Crunch time was also our demise - we just as easily could have won that series in 6. Tatum was still doing his stupid iso 35-ft fall-away buzzer 3s at that point; he wasn't great on Sunday, but he showed some maturity on how to get better looks at the end of the game.

As for the thread, I don't think it really matters with Tatum. Brown is usually going to take the harder 1-1 match up on Defense (see Siakam in TOR series), so I am just happy to have versatile two-way star wings, whatever position they are.

And these are the type of things(momentum) that can make or break a tight series like that.  I hated those iso turnaround long jumpers/3s

Butler letting those other players thrive instead of chucking a bad shot .... is a form of an impact and bbiq. Lebron does this all the time

Recognizing who is hot and how to keep them rolling is impact

Butler and his Heat played better as a team. Butler as the leading spirit.

Celtics have to learn how to play better as a team. Hopefully the team can turn it around soon 

[slamtheking]

as for playing out of position, I think he's at his best at the SF slot even though Brad trots out a 'position less' lineup.   Has a definite size advantage and his rebounding as a SF is really good.  needs to improve his ball handling at that slot though.

[boscel33]

Putting aside Brad’s position-less basketball blah blah blah:

When I watch Tatum play currently I see a

- Decent perimeter defender
- Ok-ish rebounder
- Bad inside defender
- Great shot maker
- Great 3 point shooter
- Decent ball handler
- average court vision

Is it just me or is Tatum a long 2 rather than SF or PF? The only reason to keep playing Tatum like we have would be if we think he can become a point forward. He doesn’t match up favorably with PF or SF on defense currently.

Tatum handles is a little shaky to be a 2 or long 2 as you call it

Tatum is the modern day Tayshuan Prince. Positionless player

I wish he would dribble less, decides quicker and learn to utilize screens and shoot off the catch.   Hopefully it happens

I was going with the modern day Antoine Walker.  A big that really plays as a small.  Toine used to frustrate me so much, because he could score at will inside, but liked to play outside.  This is Tatum, not comfortable at the rim.  It's now on Brad, to see that and figure it out.

[Vermont Green]

For most of this season, he has played as the SF or a wing with two bigs.  At times, he is on the court with only one big.  I feel it is very clear that SF is his natural position, and he mostly plays that position.

When he is on the court with Brown, it is not real clear and probably doesn't matter which is the SG or which is the SF.  They both essentially play as wings but Brown is more likely to cover the smaller, quicker (SG) wing on the other team with Tatum taking the more SF wing.

Even if Tatum is on the court with only 1 big, he still really plays as a SF or wing.

[wdleehi]

No, I don't think he is playing out of position.   

I think he will look much better (he is that good that we think what he is doing isn't his best) once there is more trustable talent in the end of the games.   

[celticsclay]

Tatum is already a significantly better player than Prince ever was.  It is quite simply disrespectful to compare Tatum to Prince.  He isn't much worse than Butler (if at all) right now and isn't that far away from part-time Leonard.

Nice Moranis, I like this post. TP

[Vermont Green]

Tatum is already a significantly better player than Prince ever was.  It is quite simply disrespectful to compare Tatum to Prince.  He isn't much worse than Butler (if at all) right now and isn't that far away from part-time Leonard.

Nice Moranis, I like this post. TP

If you compare Kawhi in his third season, at age 22, to Tatum in his third season at age 21 (last season), Tatum is well ahead of where Leonard was.  The base stats, Tatum 23.4 Pts, 7.0 Rebs, 3.0 Assts, 40.3 3p%, Leonard 12.8 pts, 6.2 Rebs, 2.0 Assts, 37.9 3p%.  And so far this season, Tatum is ahead of last season in every category except 3p% (39.0% vs 40.3%).

I am not sure how a question about Tatum's natural position turned into a debate about whether Tatum is a star or not.   Tatum is an elite wing in this league right now and at age 22 (almost 23) and he still has plenty of room to grow in terms of talent.  Probably not as much room to grow as Kawhi had that age/stage of his career but still plenty.

[W8ting2McHale]

Putting aside Brad’s position-less basketball blah blah blah:

When I watch Tatum play currently I see a

- Decent perimeter defender
- Ok-ish rebounder
- Bad inside defender
- Great shot maker
- Great 3 point shooter
- Decent ball handler
- average court vision

Is it just me or is Tatum a long 2 rather than SF or PF? The only reason to keep playing Tatum like we have would be if we think he can become a point forward. He doesn’t match up favorably with PF or SF on defense currently.

Tatum handles is a little shaky to be a 2 or long 2 as you call it

Tatum is the modern day Tayshuan Prince. Positionless player

I wish he would dribble less, decides quicker and learn to utilize screens and shoot off the catch.   Hopefully it happens

I was going with the modern day Antoine Walker.  A big that really plays as a small.  Toine used to frustrate me so much, because he could score at will inside, but liked to play outside.  This is Tatum, not comfortable at the rim.  It's now on Brad, to see that and figure it out.

It was frustrating to watch the New Orleans game and seeing Ingram putting his shoulder down and driving to the rim, while Tatum dribbled into double teams on the perimeter.

You know Zion is going to do that, but Ingram looks 20 lbs lighter than Tatum, and 75 less than Zion.

[boscel33]

Tatum is already a significantly better player than Prince ever was.  It is quite simply disrespectful to compare Tatum to Prince.  He isn't much worse than Butler (if at all) right now and isn't that far away from part-time Leonard.

Nice Moranis, I like this post. TP

If you compare Kawhi in his third season, at age 22, to Tatum in his third season at age 21 (last season), Tatum is well ahead of where Leonard was.  The base stats, Tatum 23.4 Pts, 7.0 Rebs, 3.0 Assts, 40.3 3p%, Leonard 12.8 pts, 6.2 Rebs, 2.0 Assts, 37.9 3p%.  And so far this season, Tatum is ahead of last season in every category except 3p% (39.0% vs 40.3%).

I am not sure how a question about Tatum's natural position turned into a debate about whether Tatum is a star or not.   Tatum is an elite wing in this league right now and at age 22 (almost 23) and he still has plenty of room to grow in terms of talent.  Probably not as much room to grow as Kawhi had that age/stage of his career but still plenty.

Sorry, hands off Kawhi!  He's the guy I compare Brown too.