We are closer than we think

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Did Boston magically grow a top 5 player or even a top 10 one?

Tatum is a top 10 player, Brown is arguably top 15.

I only have LeBron, Doncic, Curry, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard and Harden ahead of Tatum. AD is probably there too if he's healthy.

Kawhi. Paul George. Jimmy Butler.

[Neurotic Guy]

I agree with Moranis that a team really needs a top 5 player to reasonably be considered a contender. I think thee probably 7 or 8 players who would be on any top 5 list right now -- LAL, LAC, Philly, Nets and Bucks all have one, and one team has 2. It's pretty likely that the champion will be one of those teams.   

Tatum could be top 5 and Brown top 10 next season -- so being a little patient is probably a good idea.  I want Danny to make a move but would hate to see PP, Nesmith, Rob or Smart go in a deal.  And I don't how you can get a good rotation player with flotsam.

[NKY fan]

I agree with Moranis that a team really needs a top 5 player to reasonably be considered a contender. I think thee probably 7 or 8 players who would be on any top 5 list right now -- LAL, LAC, Philly, Nets and Bucks all have one, and one team has 2. It's pretty likely that the champion will be one of those teams.   

Tatum could be top 5 and Brown top 10 next season -- so being a little patient is probably a good idea.  I want Danny to make a move but would hate to see PP, Nesmith, Rob or Smart go in a deal.  And I don't how you can get a good rotation player with flotsam.

Romeo not on this list? Out of sight out of mind? lol
In all seriousness we do have a logjam right now. It might be a good problem to have if they keep developing but right now they are all big question  marks. Outside of Smart can you trust any of these to play more than a handful of minutes against a good or great team?

[Neurotic Guy]

I agree with Moranis that a team really needs a top 5 player to reasonably be considered a contender. I think thee probably 7 or 8 players who would be on any top 5 list right now -- LAL, LAC, Philly, Nets and Bucks all have one, and one team has 2. It's pretty likely that the champion will be one of those teams.   

Tatum could be top 5 and Brown top 10 next season -- so being a little patient is probably a good idea.  I want Danny to make a move but would hate to see PP, Nesmith, Rob or Smart go in a deal.  And I don't how you can get a good rotation player with flotsam.

Romeo not on this list? Out of sight out of mind? lol
In all seriousness we do have a logjam right now. It might be a good problem to have if they keep developing but right now they are all big question  marks. Outside of Smart can you trust any of these to play more than a handful of minutes against a good or great team?

Not this year -- but I'm pretty high on that possibility that all could do so next season.  And probably Romeo too - but not able to stay healthy and I like Nesmith's ceiling better. 

[gouki88]

Did Boston magically grow a top 5 player or even a top 10 one?

Tatum is a top 10 player, Brown is arguably top 15.

I only have LeBron, Doncic, Curry, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard and Harden ahead of Tatum. AD is probably there too if he's healthy.

Kawhi. Paul George. Jimmy Butler.

First is injury-prone / rests a lot, and his defence has fallen off to a similar level as Tatum's. They're probably on the same level, same with Durant (who plays prettttty bad defence). The others, simply no and no.

[Moranis]

Did Boston magically grow a top 5 player or even a top 10 one?

Tatum is a top 10 player, Brown is arguably top 15.

I only have LeBron, Doncic, Curry, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard and Harden ahead of Tatum. AD is probably there too if he's healthy.

Kawhi. Paul George. Jimmy Butler.

First is injury-prone / rests a lot, and his defence has fallen off to a similar level as Tatum's. They're probably on the same level, same with Durant (who plays prettttty bad defence). The others, simply no and no.

Durant and Leonard are absolutely better than Tatum.  They do miss games, but they won't in the post season.  The 2 time defending MVP (who is also the defending DPOY) is also clearly better.. Davis is better as well.  That is 11 right there without arguing about Butler, George, Beal, Zion, or anyone else.

The larger point is you really do need a top 5 player to truly contend, unless of course you are one of the 3 champions in the league's entire history that doesn't have one.  And Tatum is no where near a top 5 player.

[footey]

Did Boston magically grow a top 5 player or even a top 10 one?

Tatum is a top 10 player, Brown is arguably top 15.

I only have LeBron, Doncic, Curry, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard and Harden ahead of Tatum. AD is probably there too if he's healthy.

Kawhi. Paul George. Jimmy Butler.

First is injury-prone / rests a lot, and his defence has fallen off to a similar level as Tatum's. They're probably on the same level, same with Durant (who plays prettttty bad defence). The others, simply no and no.

Durant and Leonard are absolutely better than Tatum.  They do miss games, but they won't in the post season.  The 2 time defending MVP (who is also the defending DPOY) is also clearly better.. Davis is better as well.  That is 11 right there without arguing about Butler, George, Beal, Zion, or anyone else.

The larger point is you really do need a top 5 player to truly contend, unless of course you are one of the 3 champions in the league's entire history that doesn't have one.  And Tatum is no where near a top 5 player.

Which 3 championship teams in the league's history did not have a top 5 player?  2004 Pistons. Who else?

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Did Boston magically grow a top 5 player or even a top 10 one?

Tatum is a top 10 player, Brown is arguably top 15.

I only have LeBron, Doncic, Curry, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard and Harden ahead of Tatum. AD is probably there too if he's healthy.

Kawhi. Paul George. Jimmy Butler.

First is injury-prone / rests a lot, and his defence has fallen off to a similar level as Tatum's. They're probably on the same level, same with Durant (who plays prettttty bad defence). The others, simply no and no.

Durant and Leonard are absolutely better than Tatum.  They do miss games, but they won't in the post season.  The 2 time defending MVP (who is also the defending DPOY) is also clearly better.. Davis is better as well.  That is 11 right there without arguing about Butler, George, Beal, Zion, or anyone else.

The larger point is you really do need a top 5 player to truly contend, unless of course you are one of the 3 champions in the league's entire history that doesn't have one.  And Tatum is no where near a top 5 player.

Thank you for bringing some realistic analysis to this board. People around here vastly overrate Tatum. He hasn’t even been the best Celtic this year so far. He’s a debatable top 15 player. Let’s see how he continues to grow.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Did Boston magically grow a top 5 player or even a top 10 one?

Tatum is a top 10 player, Brown is arguably top 15.

I only have LeBron, Doncic, Curry, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard and Harden ahead of Tatum. AD is probably there too if he's healthy.

Kawhi. Paul George. Jimmy Butler.

First is injury-prone / rests a lot, and his defence has fallen off to a similar level as Tatum's. They're probably on the same level, same with Durant (who plays prettttty bad defence). The others, simply no and no.

Durant and Leonard are absolutely better than Tatum.  They do miss games, but they won't in the post season.  The 2 time defending MVP (who is also the defending DPOY) is also clearly better.. Davis is better as well.  That is 11 right there without arguing about Butler, George, Beal, Zion, or anyone else.

The larger point is you really do need a top 5 player to truly contend, unless of course you are one of the 3 champions in the league's entire history that doesn't have one.  And Tatum is no where near a top 5 player.

Which 3 championship teams in the league's history did not have a top 5 player?  2004 Pistons. Who else?

I’m guessing some combination of the 2011 Mavericks (Dirk was pretty old), maybe Kobe’s 2010 squad, and the 2014 Spurs?

[footey]

Did Boston magically grow a top 5 player or even a top 10 one?

Tatum is a top 10 player, Brown is arguably top 15.

I only have LeBron, Doncic, Curry, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard and Harden ahead of Tatum. AD is probably there too if he's healthy.

Kawhi. Paul George. Jimmy Butler.

First is injury-prone / rests a lot, and his defence has fallen off to a similar level as Tatum's. They're probably on the same level, same with Durant (who plays prettttty bad defence). The others, simply no and no.

Durant and Leonard are absolutely better than Tatum.  They do miss games, but they won't in the post season.  The 2 time defending MVP (who is also the defending DPOY) is also clearly better.. Davis is better as well.  That is 11 right there without arguing about Butler, George, Beal, Zion, or anyone else.

The larger point is you really do need a top 5 player to truly contend, unless of course you are one of the 3 champions in the league's entire history that doesn't have one.  And Tatum is no where near a top 5 player.

Which 3 championship teams in the league's history did not have a top 5 player?  2004 Pistons. Who else?

I’m guessing some combination of the 2011 Mavericks (Dirk was pretty old), maybe Kobe’s 2010 squad, and the 2014 Spurs?

79 Sonics didn't have a top 5 player.  Kobe was top 5 in 2010.  Yeah, 2011 Mavs. That's 3.

The 73 Knicks didn't have a top 5 player.  The 79 Bullets didn't have a top 5 player. The 89 and 90 Pistons didn't have a top 5 player either.

I'm basing this on whether a player made first team all nba or not.  Most objective measurement.

That's 8 championship teams, not 3.

[colincb]

Celtics in 69, 74, and 76 didn't have a top 5 player.

[footey]

Celtics in 69, 74, and 76 didn't have a top 5 player.

Havlicek was in 74. But that's 2 more, for a total of 10.  TP

[RodyTur10]

Did Boston magically grow a top 5 player or even a top 10 one?

Tatum is a top 10 player, Brown is arguably top 15.

I only have LeBron, Doncic, Curry, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard and Harden ahead of Tatum. AD is probably there too if he's healthy.

Kawhi. Paul George. Jimmy Butler.

First is injury-prone / rests a lot, and his defence has fallen off to a similar level as Tatum's. They're probably on the same level, same with Durant (who plays prettttty bad defence). The others, simply no and no.

Durant and Leonard are absolutely better than Tatum.  They do miss games, but they won't in the post season.  The 2 time defending MVP (who is also the defending DPOY) is also clearly better.. Davis is better as well.  That is 11 right there without arguing about Butler, George, Beal, Zion, or anyone else.

The larger point is you really do need a top 5 player to truly contend, unless of course you are one of the 3 champions in the league's entire history that doesn't have one.  And Tatum is no where near a top 5 player.

My tiers are something like this, probably forgetting some:

1) James, Jokic, Curry, Leonard, Durant, Antetokounmpo, Harden
2) Embiid, Doncic, Lillard, Davis
3) George, Tatum, Butler, Towns, Beal, Gobert, Irving
4) Adebayo, Booker, Brown, Vucevic, Middleton, Lowry, Sabonis
5) Ingram, Young, Mitchell, Simmons, McCollum, Williamson, Randle, VanVleet, Holiday, LaVine, Siakam, Wood, Fox, Hayward, Grant

[Walker Wiggle]

When healthy, the Celtics have three all-star level players, plus one of the best defenders in the league in Smart. Regardless of whether or not one of them is top-5 in the league, that should be enough to contend for a title, especially if they make a mid-season move to strengthen the bench or a power forward/swing type who can start.

The problem with the team isn’t top-end talent, it’s health. Not just Kemba, i am also starting to get worried that Tatum still won’t be all the way back to his post-covid self by the playoffs (given when I’ve seen so far and how little we know about the disease).

[gouki88]

Did Boston magically grow a top 5 player or even a top 10 one?

Tatum is a top 10 player, Brown is arguably top 15.

I only have LeBron, Doncic, Curry, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard and Harden ahead of Tatum. AD is probably there too if he's healthy.

Kawhi. Paul George. Jimmy Butler.

First is injury-prone / rests a lot, and his defence has fallen off to a similar level as Tatum's. They're probably on the same level, same with Durant (who plays prettttty bad defence). The others, simply no and no.

Durant and Leonard are absolutely better than Tatum.  They do miss games, but they won't in the post season.  The 2 time defending MVP (who is also the defending DPOY) is also clearly better.. Davis is better as well.  That is 11 right there without arguing about Butler, George, Beal, Zion, or anyone else.

The larger point is you really do need a top 5 player to truly contend, unless of course you are one of the 3 champions in the league's entire history that doesn't have one.  And Tatum is no where near a top 5 player.

Giannis was the one I forgot. Durant and Leonard have not "absolutely" been better than Tatum this year. It is marginal either way, and if Tatum hadn't gotten COVID I think he'd be on the level of both without question. I already do think he is right about there.