If Wyc didn’t care about the luxury tax trade

[Roy H.]

My goal:  come up with a trade that maximizes our talent while be quasi-realistic for all involved, disregarding luxury tax concerns

https://tradenba.com/trades/aplMgqETE

In:  Oladipo, Collins, Hill
Out:  Smart, Williams, Edwards, Langford, three #1s, #2s as needed

Collins / Theis / Thompson
Tatum / Williams
Brown / Semi
Oladipo / Hill
Kemba / Pritchard / Teague

Who can do better, without approaching the “the other GM would have to be blackmailed” line?

[todd_days_41]

 Not sure if HOU says yes (tho maybe you're sending them a pick?)

Love it, except I'd really want to swap Williams out / someone else like Nesmith in.

[PhoSita]

The reason to care about the luxury tax isn't just the actual cost.  It's also all of the ways that you are limited in how you can build your team if you go into the luxury tax multiple times.

It makes sense to hold off on dipping into the luxury tax unless you're in a position to go all-in.

[Roy H.]

Not sure if HOU says yes (tho maybe you're sending them a pick?)

Love it, except I'd really want to swap Williams out / someone else like Nesmith in.

Yeah, I presume Houston would get one #1, and ATL would get two.  OKC gets probably two #2s.  And, since we are in fairytale land, maybe we squeeze Dunn out of ATL since they’re getting Smart.

[Roy H.]

The reason to care about the luxury tax isn't just the actual cost.  It's also all of the ways that you are limited in how you can build your team if you go into the luxury tax multiple times.

It makes sense to hold off on dipping into the luxury tax unless you're in a position to go all-in.

I think that once you reach a certain level, those roadblocks mean less.  What are the main impediments, other than financial? You can’t use the full MLE or BAE, you can’t bring somebody back in a sign and trade...  What else am I forgetting?

I don’t expect that the team would disregard the tax, because about 26 franchises curtail their budgets.  It would be nice to be part of the Golden State, Brooklyn, Los Angeles class, though.

[PhoSita]

The reason to care about the luxury tax isn't just the actual cost.  It's also all of the ways that you are limited in how you can build your team if you go into the luxury tax multiple times.

It makes sense to hold off on dipping into the luxury tax unless you're in a position to go all-in.

I think that once you reach a certain level, those roadblocks mean less.  What are the main impediments, other than financial? You can’t use the full MLE or BAE, you can’t bring somebody back in a sign and trade...  What else am I forgetting?

I don’t expect that the team would disregard the tax, because about 26 franchises curtail their budgets.  It would be nice to be part of the Golden State, Brooklyn, Los Angeles class, though.

I mean, given that we have a thin roster as it is, not being able to use the MLE or BAE, or utilize sign and trades, seems like a pretty significant set of handcuffs.

On top of that, even the teams you mention don't dive way into the luxury tax unless they think their team is a contender in the present.  Maybe Golden State is an exception because they spent money this year even after Klay got hurt, but I suspect they have some other factors (just opened a new arena, want to keep Steph happy despite a couple of down years).

[Roy H.]

The reason to care about the luxury tax isn't just the actual cost.  It's also all of the ways that you are limited in how you can build your team if you go into the luxury tax multiple times.

It makes sense to hold off on dipping into the luxury tax unless you're in a position to go all-in.

I think that once you reach a certain level, those roadblocks mean less.  What are the main impediments, other than financial? You can’t use the full MLE or BAE, you can’t bring somebody back in a sign and trade...  What else am I forgetting?

I don’t expect that the team would disregard the tax, because about 26 franchises curtail their budgets.  It would be nice to be part of the Golden State, Brooklyn, Los Angeles class, though.

I mean, given that we have a thin roster as it is, not being able to use the MLE or BAE, or utilize sign and trades, seems like a pretty significant set of handcuffs.

On top of that, even the teams you mention don't dive way into the luxury tax unless they think their team is a contender in the present.  Maybe Golden State is an exception because they spent money this year even after Klay got hurt, but I suspect they have some other factors (just opened a new arena, want to keep Steph happy despite a couple of down years).

Eh.  How often have we acquired players via sign-and-trade or used the BAE in the last decade?  Most transactions (outside of those made with cap space) have been made using the taxpayer MLE or the vet minimum.

I do think as fans we tend to grant ownership too much slack.  The Celtics have made several hundreds of millions in profits, and have appreciated billions of dollars since Wyc bought the team.  They could increase the budget by 50% and still be profitable most seasons.

[Moranis]

The trade I keep coming back to is this one:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3ptdqem
Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

So that adds about 4 million, leaving Boston still around 15 million below the apron and 2 open roster spots and the full TPE to use. 

So 2nd trade

New Orleans - 2022 swap, 2024 swap, 2025 1st (lotto), 14.494 TPE
Boston - Ball, Hart

That should get Boston in under the apron, though if necessary Green or Teague could be moved elsewhere to make it happen.

Post-Trades Roster

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Ball, Hart, Thompson, Theis, Williams, Williams
Deep Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Ojeleye
Suits - Green, Waters, Fall

[Roy H.]

The trade I keep coming back to is this one:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3ptdqem
Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

So that adds about 4 million, leaving Boston still around 15 million below the apron and 2 open roster spots and the full TPE to use. 

So 2nd trade

New Orleans - 2022 swap, 2024 swap, 2025 1st (lotto), 14.494 TPE
Boston - Ball, Hart

That should get Boston in under the apron, though if necessary Green or Teague could be moved elsewhere to make it happen.

Post-Trades Roster

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Ball, Hart, Thompson, Theis, Williams, Williams
Deep Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Ojeleye
Suits - Green, Waters, Fall

This definitely fits within the spirit of the thread.  I’m not sure if Sactown would be down, but it’s fun to think about. 

[footey]

Funny, but I noticed that Wyc is in the bottom third of NBA owners in terms of new worth; his is projected at about $450 mm.  He really has to think about the luxury tax. He claims he is willing to pay it for a team that will contend for the championship, but I worry that he will always reject any such trade that takes us into the tax on that basis. It's hard to prove you will win a championship before you win it.

Someone like Jeannie Buss, who has similar net worth, is unaffected since her team and city is a destination for players. Boston is not.  We need some rich billionaire to buy the team.  I feel Wyc has become too poor!!

[tazzmaniac]

The trade I keep coming back to is this one:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3ptdqem
Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

So that adds about 4 million, leaving Boston still around 15 million below the apron and 2 open roster spots and the full TPE to use. 

So 2nd trade

New Orleans - 2022 swap, 2024 swap, 2025 1st (lotto), 14.494 TPE
Boston - Ball, Hart

That should get Boston in under the apron, though if necessary Green or Teague could be moved elsewhere to make it happen.

Post-Trades Roster

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Ball, Hart, Thompson, Theis, Williams, Williams
Deep Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Ojeleye
Suits - Green, Waters, Fall

Don't see why the Kings would make that trade.  They're trying to make the playoffs and Barnes is their 2nd best player currently. 

[Roy H.]

Funny, but I noticed that Wyc is in the bottom third of NBA owners in terms of new worth; his is projected at about $450 mm.  He really has to think about the luxury tax. He claims he is willing to pay it for a team that will contend for the championship, but I worry that he will always reject any such trade that takes us into the tax on that basis. It's hard to prove you will win a championship before you win it.

Someone like Jeannie Buss, who has similar net worth, is unaffected since her team and city is a destination for players. Boston is not.  We need some rich billionaire to buy the team.  I feel Wyc has become too poor!!

As an aside, I wonder about the accuracy of stuff like this. Wyc’s net worth has been estimated at between $400 and $450 million since he bought the team.  I don’t buy that at all, particularly with the team being extremely profitable and it’s valuation rising by over $2.8 billion.

Check out the yearly profits:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/286033/operating-income-of-the-boston-celtics-national-basketball-association/

The franchise is valued at $3.2 billion, after Wyc purchased it for 360 million.

Either he is the worst business person in the world in his other endeavors, or his net worth is massively undervalued.

[todd_days_41]

The trade I keep coming back to is this one:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3ptdqem
Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

So that adds about 4 million, leaving Boston still around 15 million below the apron and 2 open roster spots and the full TPE to use. 

So 2nd trade

New Orleans - 2022 swap, 2024 swap, 2025 1st (lotto), 14.494 TPE
Boston - Ball, Hart

That should get Boston in under the apron, though if necessary Green or Teague could be moved elsewhere to make it happen.

Post-Trades Roster

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Ball, Hart, Thompson, Theis, Williams, Williams
Deep Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Ojeleye
Suits - Green, Waters, Fall

Don't see why the Kings would make that trade.  They're trying to make the playoffs and Barnes is their 2nd best player currently.

Have to agree. Unless they really like Nesmith, hard to see why SAC does it. Will need to sweeten it for them.

[Goldstar88]

My goal:  come up with a trade that maximizes our talent while be quasi-realistic for all involved, disregarding luxury tax concerns

https://tradenba.com/trades/aplMgqETE

In:  Oladipo, Collins, Hill
Out:  Smart, Williams, Edwards, Langford, three #1s, #2s as needed

Collins / Theis / Thompson
Tatum / Williams
Brown / Semi
Oladipo / Hill
Kemba / Pritchard / Teague

Who can do better, without approaching the “the other GM would have to be blackmailed” line?

That would be incredible for the C’s. Not so much for the other teams, though. Hawks would be crazy to let Collins go.

[Moranis]

The trade I keep coming back to is this one:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3ptdqem
Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

So that adds about 4 million, leaving Boston still around 15 million below the apron and 2 open roster spots and the full TPE to use. 

So 2nd trade

New Orleans - 2022 swap, 2024 swap, 2025 1st (lotto), 14.494 TPE
Boston - Ball, Hart

That should get Boston in under the apron, though if necessary Green or Teague could be moved elsewhere to make it happen.

Post-Trades Roster

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Ball, Hart, Thompson, Theis, Williams, Williams
Deep Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Ojeleye
Suits - Green, Waters, Fall

Don't see why the Kings would make that trade.  They're trying to make the playoffs and Barnes is their 2nd best player currently.

Have to agree. Unless they really like Nesmith, hard to see why SAC does it. Will need to sweeten it for them.

Huerter and Nesmith and an expiring contract for a player making around 40 million (the next 2 years, after this one) that doesn't really move the needle for them.  I get they are making a playoff push, but it would be a very Kings type move to keep at best the 4th best player on a title team to make a playoff push when they could get two young cheap players that fit their long term timeline a lot better.

And to be clear, the rumors on Barnes being available were out there pretty heavily even as recently as a few days ago.  Certainly things can change quickly, but I don't know that it will have changed things that much for the Kings.