If Wyc didn’t care about the luxury tax trade

[todd_days_41]

And to be clear, the rumors on Barnes being available were out there pretty heavily even as recently as a few days ago.  Certainly things can change quickly, but I don't know that it will have changed things that much for the Kings.

I didn't realize this.

If you look at the structure of their team, and depending on how they look at Hield, they're core (Fox, Haliburton, Buddy) timeline is still a few years out with big pay checks along the way. Could be that having Nesmith on a rookie contract is desirable to them.

Don't think I see the need for the 2nd NOH trade tho....

[PhoSita]

I do think as fans we tend to grant ownership too much slack.  The Celtics have made several hundreds of millions in profits, and have appreciated billions of dollars since Wyc bought the team.  They could increase the budget by 50% and still be profitable most seasons.

I don't care how much the team costs them.  I do care that they use their assets strategically, one of which is cap space. 

I think it makes sense to go all-in and splurge when you have a team that's one splurge away from being super good.  The Celts aren't quite at that point IMO.

[todd_days_41]

I do think as fans we tend to grant ownership too much slack.  The Celtics have made several hundreds of millions in profits, and have appreciated billions of dollars since Wyc bought the team.  They could increase the budget by 50% and still be profitable most seasons.

I don't care how much the team costs them.  I do care that they use their assets strategically, one of which is cap space. 

I think it makes sense to go all-in and splurge when you have a team that's one splurge away from being super good.  The Celts aren't quite at that point IMO.

Well.... is this a championship team?

Collins / Theis / Thompson
Tatum / Williams
Brown / Semi
Oladipo / Hill
Kemba / Pritchard / Teague

I think the Lakers are winning in 2021 (short of injury) regardless. And Oladipo is a UFA this summer, and Collins is a RFA. It's an interesting squad for sure but you'd basically HAVE to invest long term in Collins and Oladipo to make it worthwhile.

[footey]

And to be clear, the rumors on Barnes being available were out there pretty heavily even as recently as a few days ago.  Certainly things can change quickly, but I don't know that it will have changed things that much for the Kings.

I didn't realize this.

If you look at the structure of their team, and depending on how they look at Hield, they're core (Fox, Haliburton, Buddy) timeline is still a few years out with big pay checks along the way. Could be that having Nesmith on a rookie contract is desirable to them.

Don't think I see the need for the 2nd NOH trade tho....

Buddy and Barnes are about the same age. I think the Kings would much rather trade Buddy than Barnes. Barnes fits better with the team. Halliburton should be starting over Buddy. And when he does Buddy will demand to be traded (again).  I don’t want Buddy I want Barnes.

[wdleehi]

And to be clear, the rumors on Barnes being available were out there pretty heavily even as recently as a few days ago.  Certainly things can change quickly, but I don't know that it will have changed things that much for the Kings.

I didn't realize this.

If you look at the structure of their team, and depending on how they look at Hield, they're core (Fox, Haliburton, Buddy) timeline is still a few years out with big pay checks along the way. Could be that having Nesmith on a rookie contract is desirable to them.

Don't think I see the need for the 2nd NOH trade tho....

Buddy and Barnes are about the same age. I think the Kings would much rather trade Buddy than Barnes. Barnes fits better with the team. Halliburton should be starting over Buddy. And when he does Buddy will demand to be traded (again).  I don’t want Buddy I want Barnes.

Was it really a rumor or just a lot of Celtics writers and media all having the same idea?

[Roy H.]

I do think as fans we tend to grant ownership too much slack.  The Celtics have made several hundreds of millions in profits, and have appreciated billions of dollars since Wyc bought the team.  They could increase the budget by 50% and still be profitable most seasons.

I don't care how much the team costs them.  I do care that they use their assets strategically, one of which is cap space. 

I think it makes sense to go all-in and splurge when you have a team that's one splurge away from being super good.  The Celts aren't quite at that point IMO.

The TPE is an asset which will expire if not used.  I’d rather bring in good players with it than do nothing in the name of cap space (which we won’t have for years).

[tazzmaniac]

The trade I keep coming back to is this one:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3ptdqem
Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

So that adds about 4 million, leaving Boston still around 15 million below the apron and 2 open roster spots and the full TPE to use. 

So 2nd trade

New Orleans - 2022 swap, 2024 swap, 2025 1st (lotto), 14.494 TPE
Boston - Ball, Hart

That should get Boston in under the apron, though if necessary Green or Teague could be moved elsewhere to make it happen.

Post-Trades Roster

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Ball, Hart, Thompson, Theis, Williams, Williams
Deep Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Ojeleye
Suits - Green, Waters, Fall

Don't see why the Kings would make that trade.  They're trying to make the playoffs and Barnes is their 2nd best player currently.

Have to agree. Unless they really like Nesmith, hard to see why SAC does it. Will need to sweeten it for them.

Huerter and Nesmith and an expiring contract for a player making around 40 million (the next 2 years, after this one) that doesn't really move the needle for them.  I get they are making a playoff push, but it would be a very Kings type move to keep at best the 4th best player on a title team to make a playoff push when they could get two young cheap players that fit their long term timeline a lot better.

And to be clear, the rumors on Barnes being available were out there pretty heavily even as recently as a few days ago.  Certainly things can change quickly, but I don't know that it will have changed things that much for the Kings.

They don't need two young, unproven SGs.  They've got Hield and Halliburton.  Barnes is playing well for them and his contract isn't bad.  Freeing up cap space doesn't help them.  They aren't a destination for good free agents so they'd just spend it on someone whose probably worse than Barnes.   

[todd_days_41]

They don't need two young, unproven SGs.  They've got Hield and Halliburton.   

Hield's unproven?

Haliburton's a SG?

Huerter's unproven? And he's a shooting guard?

Is Nesmith a SG?

Asking for a friend.

[todd_days_41]

Buddy and Barnes are about the same age. I think the Kings would much rather trade Buddy than Barnes. Barnes fits better with the team. Halliburton should be starting over Buddy. And when he does Buddy will demand to be traded (again).  I don’t want Buddy I want Barnes.

TP for this.

They're the same age, but Barnes has played 4 (!) more NBA seasons... some extra miles there.

The rest of what you say is pretty fair / logical.

[Moranis]

The trade I keep coming back to is this one:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3ptdqem
Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

So that adds about 4 million, leaving Boston still around 15 million below the apron and 2 open roster spots and the full TPE to use. 

So 2nd trade

New Orleans - 2022 swap, 2024 swap, 2025 1st (lotto), 14.494 TPE
Boston - Ball, Hart

That should get Boston in under the apron, though if necessary Green or Teague could be moved elsewhere to make it happen.

Post-Trades Roster

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Ball, Hart, Thompson, Theis, Williams, Williams
Deep Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Ojeleye
Suits - Green, Waters, Fall

Don't see why the Kings would make that trade.  They're trying to make the playoffs and Barnes is their 2nd best player currently.

Have to agree. Unless they really like Nesmith, hard to see why SAC does it. Will need to sweeten it for them.

Huerter and Nesmith and an expiring contract for a player making around 40 million (the next 2 years, after this one) that doesn't really move the needle for them.  I get they are making a playoff push, but it would be a very Kings type move to keep at best the 4th best player on a title team to make a playoff push when they could get two young cheap players that fit their long term timeline a lot better.

And to be clear, the rumors on Barnes being available were out there pretty heavily even as recently as a few days ago.  Certainly things can change quickly, but I don't know that it will have changed things that much for the Kings.

They don't need two young, unproven SGs.  They've got Hield and Halliburton.  Barnes is playing well for them and his contract isn't bad.  Freeing up cap space doesn't help them.  They aren't a destination for good free agents so they'd just spend it on someone whose probably worse than Barnes.

Hield isn't going to be there.  Nesmith as a long term SF and Huerter as a long term 6th man makes a lot of sense for them from a value standpoint (they obviously have to like Nesmith in that scenario). 

I agree the Kings aren't a destination for free agents, but they also shouldn't be paying the luxury tax and there is a real chance they will next year if Barnes and Hield are both on the roster as Fox's max extension kicks in.  I mean that is right around 70 million from those 3 alone.  Add in Bagley's 11 million, Joseph's 2.4 dead cap hit, Halliburton's 4 million and they are right around 90 million from just 5 players on the roster.  And that doesn't count Holmes who would be in line for a raise, their rookies, etc.  They obviously could make these moves over the summer, but I think the market for either Hield or Barnes is at its best right now given how few sellers there will be, so maximizing the return seems like the right thing to do.  Now maybe they can do better than Nesmith, Huerter, and Snell for Barnes, but that seems like pretty decent value for an average starter type player. 

[footey]

Funny, but I noticed that Wyc is in the bottom third of NBA owners in terms of new worth; his is projected at about $450 mm.  He really has to think about the luxury tax. He claims he is willing to pay it for a team that will contend for the championship, but I worry that he will always reject any such trade that takes us into the tax on that basis. It's hard to prove you will win a championship before you win it.

Someone like Jeannie Buss, who has similar net worth, is unaffected since her team and city is a destination for players. Boston is not.  We need some rich billionaire to buy the team.  I feel Wyc has become too poor!!

As an aside, I wonder about the accuracy of stuff like this. Wyc’s net worth has been estimated at between $400 and $450 million since he bought the team.  I don’t buy that at all, particularly with the team being extremely profitable and it’s valuation rising by over $2.8 billion.

Check out the yearly profits:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/286033/operating-income-of-the-boston-celtics-national-basketball-association/

The franchise is valued at $3.2 billion, after Wyc purchased it for 360 million.

Either he is the worst business person in the world in his other endeavors, or his net worth is massively undervalued.

Yes, it is probably undervalued, but my real point is that Wyc does not appear to be among the 20 wealthiest owners in the league. Structuring a team with payroll likely to trigger repeater luxury tax is something he is less likely to take a risk on than the guys at the top.   In other words Danny is probably constrained from executing any such trades. 

[nickagneta]

Grant Williams, Jeff Teague and 2021 and 2023 1st rounders and a 2024 pick swap for Lauri Markkanen.

Kemba Walker and Javonte Green and 2025 1st rounder for Ricky Rubio and Malik Beasley

Rubio/Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Beasley/Langford/Edwards
Tatum/Nesmith
Markkanen/Semi/
Theis/Thompson/Timelord

Of course, there's a lot of crossover so Brown can actually play a bunch of SF, Tatum can play the 4 for stretches, Smart can play a bunch of wing minutes. But the rotation is probably

Rubio
Brown
Tatum
Markkanen
Theis
Pritchard
Smart
Beasley
Thompson
Timelord
And Romeo or Aaron get some run on occasion due to blowouts and injuries.

Seems like a team that can grow with most important players in the 23-28 year old timeline.

[footey]

Grant Williams, Jeff Teague and 2021 and 2023 1st rounders and a 2024 pick swap for Lauri Markkanen.

Kemba Walker and Javonte Green and 2025 1st rounder for Ricky Rubio and Malik Beasley

Rubio/Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Beasley/Langford/Edwards
Tatum/Nesmith
Markkanen/Semi/
Theis/Thompson/Timelord

Of course, there's a lot of crossover so Brown can actually play a bunch of SF, Tatum can play the 4 for stretches, Smart can play a bunch of wing minutes. But the rotation is probably

Rubio
Brown
Tatum
Markkanen
Theis
Pritchard
Smart
Beasley
Thompson
Timelord
And Romeo or Aaron get some run on occasion due to blowouts and injuries.

Seems like a team that can grow with most important players in the 23-28 year old timeline.

Doubtful Bulls would agree to that. Pretty weak offer.

[nickagneta]

Grant Williams, Jeff Teague and 2021 and 2023 1st rounders and a 2024 pick swap for Lauri Markkanen.

Kemba Walker and Javonte Green and 2025 1st rounder for Ricky Rubio and Malik Beasley

Rubio/Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Beasley/Langford/Edwards
Tatum/Nesmith
Markkanen/Semi/
Theis/Thompson/Timelord

Of course, there's a lot of crossover so Brown can actually play a bunch of SF, Tatum can play the 4 for stretches, Smart can play a bunch of wing minutes. But the rotation is probably

Rubio
Brown
Tatum
Markkanen
Theis
Pritchard
Smart
Beasley
Thompson
Timelord
And Romeo or Aaron get some run on occasion due to blowouts and injuries.

Seems like a team that can grow with most important players in the 23-28 year old timeline.

Doubtful Bulls would agree to that. Pretty weak offer.

Nothing in this thread is likely. The very premise insists that we take reality out of the situation.

If the offer isn't good for Chicago, add better picks, as well as maybe keeping Grant and sending Romeo.

[todd_days_41]

Grant Williams, Jeff Teague and 2021 and 2023 1st rounders and a 2024 pick swap for Lauri Markkanen.

Seems like a lot for a guy whose made of glass, and otherwise regressed badly last year, no? What's the rationale.... that our picks will be so low there's not very valuable?