Just be better than Charlotte. Please!

[jambr380]

On the outside chance it happens, I think a lot of us have a lot of respect owed to Mr. Hayward

The majority of people acknowledge that Hayward is really good; it's just that he could never stay healthy. Many of us (myself included) wanted to re-sign Hayward. There are reports that the Cs offered him upwards of $108M/4yrs.

If miraculously Hayward stays healthy throughout his tenure with CHA, then they made an awesome gamble; but I am not going to pretend that everybody thought he was trash. We've been talking about acquiring a poor-man's version of Hayward ever since he left since we desperately need his shoes filled.

[boscel33]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

[ederson]

Charlotte has 5 guys that can pop off for 30/7/8 on any given night.

Celtics have 3 guys that can.

Not sure why that is relevant just an observation .

lol what? In what fantasy world did you observe this?

It's a recurring theme.. Every team has a roster full of Jordans but ours is full of Gabe Pruits

[jambr380]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

Please don't spread opinion as fact. It is fine if you want to preface your statement with "I believe...", but, personally, I believe that Hayward's agent was always going to circle back around to all of the teams who showed interest. The fact that CHA offered the most money (which IND didn't match) and his wife specifically mentioned the CHA connection from Hayward's first FA, should give the IND/Turner believers some pause.

[gouki88]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

GH left the EC finalist for charlotte a team with a losing record 16 times in the last 20 seasons. He had obviously his reasons but winning was not his priority.

This deserves a huge TP. The Cs made it to the ECF without him last season while the Hornets finished 19 games below .500 in a shortened season. I am surprised by gouki's take here - it is dead wrong and a little trolly and I would expect more from him. The Hornets have no business being anywhere near the Cs record-wise and I would expect a healthy Cs team to destroy CHA.

Besides, Hayward is in CHA because of money and because of their previous history of wanting him. Robyn said as much in her interview. But don't worry, we still have an active thread going about how Danny messed up by not trading a FA (who he had no ability to trade) to IND for Turner.

Lol, what? There isn't even a 'take' in my post at all, besides one you've invented.

I'm happy for Hayward and for Charlotte. Both have had a lot of doubters

[ozgod]

So what did Gordon know about us this season that we the fans didn't

[Greengang5]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

Nope.  Didn't care just about the money. I believe a bigger role was the #1 priority.  Once Jordan called with the offer and opportunity then it was over.  Hayward took less money to go to Boston 4/5 years ago.

Charlotte is third youngest team in league.  Third in assists last I looked. One of two teams under the cap. Rookie PG players will want to play with. They have fun and are up and coming. If you have league pass then watch them.  Hayward is calming influence down there and has played well all season.

Celtics on the other hand are a mess.

[celts55]

I have to problem with Haywood. He wanted a bigger role, and for what ever reason, he had bad injury luck here. I thank a change in scenery was good for him, and I'm not sure the Celtics wanted to pay him anyway.

Also, they were able to do a sign and trade to get massive tax exemption. I'm sure Haywood and his agent helped make that happen.

Personally I'm happy you him and Terry. They appear to be building a nice, young team.

The way the Celtics are going, maybe I'll have to start rooting for them.

[Moranis]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

Please don't spread opinion as fact. It is fine if you want to preface your statement with "I believe...", but, personally, I believe that Hayward's agent was always going to circle back around to all of the teams who showed interest. The fact that CHA offered the most money (which IND didn't match) and his wife specifically mentioned the CHA connection from Hayward's first FA, should give the IND/Turner believers some pause.

why would Indiana match if they couldn't work out a sign and trade with Boston?  There was no point for Indiana to increase their offer to Hayward if Ainge wasn't going to budge on what he wanted, which was too much for Indiana to pay.  If Ainge would have taken Turner, McDermott, and a 1st, then Hayward would almost certainly be in Indiana, but Ainge didn't think that was enough. 

[footey]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

Please don't spread opinion as fact. It is fine if you want to preface your statement with "I believe...", but, personally, I believe that Hayward's agent was always going to circle back around to all of the teams who showed interest. The fact that CHA offered the most money (which IND didn't match) and his wife specifically mentioned the CHA connection from Hayward's first FA, should give the IND/Turner believers some pause.

why would Indiana match if they couldn't work out a sign and trade with Boston?  There was no point for Indiana to increase their offer to Hayward if Ainge wasn't going to budge on what he wanted, which was too much for Indiana to pay.  If Ainge would have taken Turner, McDermott, and a 1st, then Hayward would almost certainly be in Indiana, but Ainge didn't think that was enough.

Because Charlotte offer substantially weakened Ainge's bargaining position with Indiana, and Ainge may have accepted Indy's original offer once the threat of him going to Charlotte for nuthin came out. If Indy was indeed Gordon's first choice to play, his agent most certainly would have gone back to Indy to ask them (and Boston) and tell them unless the Boston and Indy get their act together, Gordon is gonzo.  My guess is that Indy got deal fatigue negotiating with Ainge, and when Charlotte offer was communicated to them, Indy declined to pursue any further. 

[Moranis]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

Please don't spread opinion as fact. It is fine if you want to preface your statement with "I believe...", but, personally, I believe that Hayward's agent was always going to circle back around to all of the teams who showed interest. The fact that CHA offered the most money (which IND didn't match) and his wife specifically mentioned the CHA connection from Hayward's first FA, should give the IND/Turner believers some pause.

why would Indiana match if they couldn't work out a sign and trade with Boston?  There was no point for Indiana to increase their offer to Hayward if Ainge wasn't going to budge on what he wanted, which was too much for Indiana to pay.  If Ainge would have taken Turner, McDermott, and a 1st, then Hayward would almost certainly be in Indiana, but Ainge didn't think that was enough.

Because Charlotte offer substantially weakened Ainge's bargaining position with Indiana, and Ainge may have accepted Indy's original offer once the threat of him going to Charlotte for nuthin came out. If Indy was indeed Gordon's first choice to play, his agent most certainly would have gone back to Indy to ask them (and Boston) and tell them unless the Boston and Indy get their act together, Gordon is gonzo.  My guess is that Indy got deal fatigue negotiating with Ainge, and when Charlotte offer was communicated to them, Indy declined to pursue any further.

That just doesn't match what has been reported though.  Even Ainge himself hinted that he was playing hard ball and regretted it.  Indiana had no incentive to increase its offer to Hayward if Boston wasn't going to accept Turner, McDermott, 1st because that is all Indiana was going to offer.  Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that has been reported from all sides involved was that Ainge was never going to accept that trade package.  The deal didn't get done because of that. 

[BringToughnessBack]

Hayward’s agent job is to get the players the most money forma place they will be happy. There is close to zero chance he would have never shopped the Pacers offer around if Danny would have agreed to terms with the Pacers.

When I had one strong offer, it was shopped before I made my final decision. I chose most money for place I thought I could be happy.

I could care less if Hornets are better than us, my only concern is that we build the right team around our young superstars. If this means waiting a year or two, so be it. Build it right or face rebuilding it all in 4 years.

[footey]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

Please don't spread opinion as fact. It is fine if you want to preface your statement with "I believe...", but, personally, I believe that Hayward's agent was always going to circle back around to all of the teams who showed interest. The fact that CHA offered the most money (which IND didn't match) and his wife specifically mentioned the CHA connection from Hayward's first FA, should give the IND/Turner believers some pause.

why would Indiana match if they couldn't work out a sign and trade with Boston?  There was no point for Indiana to increase their offer to Hayward if Ainge wasn't going to budge on what he wanted, which was too much for Indiana to pay.  If Ainge would have taken Turner, McDermott, and a 1st, then Hayward would almost certainly be in Indiana, but Ainge didn't think that was enough.

Because Charlotte offer substantially weakened Ainge's bargaining position with Indiana, and Ainge may have accepted Indy's original offer once the threat of him going to Charlotte for nuthin came out. If Indy was indeed Gordon's first choice to play, his agent most certainly would have gone back to Indy to ask them (and Boston) and tell them unless the Boston and Indy get their act together, Gordon is gonzo.  My guess is that Indy got deal fatigue negotiating with Ainge, and when Charlotte offer was communicated to them, Indy declined to pursue any further.

That just doesn't match what has been reported though.  Even Ainge himself hinted that he was playing hard ball and regretted it.  Indiana had no incentive to increase its offer to Hayward if Boston wasn't going to accept Turner, McDermott, 1st because that is all Indiana was going to offer.  Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that has been reported from all sides involved was that Ainge was never going to accept that trade package.  The deal didn't get done because of that.

I understand what you are saying. I'm not disagreeing with Ainge's insistence on a better trade package.  What is being discussed above is more nuanced: Did Ainge continue to insist on a better deal once Charlotte offer came into the picture?  Remember that offer came out of left field, frankly it wasn't mentioned by anyone in the media until it was announced that Hayward had agreed to sign with them.  I recall reading reports that Indy was not willing to go that high. If so, this implies that they were at least offered the opportunity to match Charlotte. Your point is, why would Indy bother, if Ainge wouldn't agree to reasonable trade package.  That is speculation on your part. My speculation is that Ainge is a rational business man, and a rational business man would recognize that his bargaining power diminished significantly once the Charlotte offer was on the table, due to its amount and length (recall that the only other reported offers were Knick offers for less $$ and shorter term).  My speculation is that Ainge more likely than not would have been inclined to reduce his offer once the Charlotte offer was on table. But Indy had deal fatigue, and/or was unwilling to increase their offer. (wasn't there published reports that Indy was not willing to pay Gordon that much?  Seem to recall).  If what you are saying is that Ainge, even after the Charlotte offer was on the table, was still insisting on the original trade package, I just have a hard time believing that.

[Moranis]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

Please don't spread opinion as fact. It is fine if you want to preface your statement with "I believe...", but, personally, I believe that Hayward's agent was always going to circle back around to all of the teams who showed interest. The fact that CHA offered the most money (which IND didn't match) and his wife specifically mentioned the CHA connection from Hayward's first FA, should give the IND/Turner believers some pause.

why would Indiana match if they couldn't work out a sign and trade with Boston?  There was no point for Indiana to increase their offer to Hayward if Ainge wasn't going to budge on what he wanted, which was too much for Indiana to pay.  If Ainge would have taken Turner, McDermott, and a 1st, then Hayward would almost certainly be in Indiana, but Ainge didn't think that was enough.

Because Charlotte offer substantially weakened Ainge's bargaining position with Indiana, and Ainge may have accepted Indy's original offer once the threat of him going to Charlotte for nuthin came out. If Indy was indeed Gordon's first choice to play, his agent most certainly would have gone back to Indy to ask them (and Boston) and tell them unless the Boston and Indy get their act together, Gordon is gonzo.  My guess is that Indy got deal fatigue negotiating with Ainge, and when Charlotte offer was communicated to them, Indy declined to pursue any further.

That just doesn't match what has been reported though.  Even Ainge himself hinted that he was playing hard ball and regretted it.  Indiana had no incentive to increase its offer to Hayward if Boston wasn't going to accept Turner, McDermott, 1st because that is all Indiana was going to offer.  Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that has been reported from all sides involved was that Ainge was never going to accept that trade package.  The deal didn't get done because of that.

I understand what you are saying. I'm not disagreeing with Ainge's insistence on a better trade package.  What is being discussed above is more nuanced: Did Ainge continue to insist on a better deal once Charlotte offer came into the picture?  Remember that offer came out of left field, frankly it wasn't mentioned by anyone in the media until it was announced that Hayward had agreed to sign with them.  I recall reading reports that Indy was not willing to go that high. If so, this implies that they were at least offered the opportunity to match Charlotte. Your point is, why would Indy bother, if Ainge wouldn't agree to reasonable trade package.  That is speculation on your part. My speculation is that Ainge is a rational business man, and a rational business man would recognize that his bargaining power diminished significantly once the Charlotte offer was on the table, due to its amount and length (recall that the only other reported offers were Knick offers for less $$ and shorter term).  My speculation is that Ainge more likely than not would have been inclined to reduce his offer once the Charlotte offer was on table. But Indy had deal fatigue, and/or was unwilling to increase their offer. (wasn't there published reports that Indy was not willing to pay Gordon that much?  Seem to recall).  If what you are saying is that Ainge, even after the Charlotte offer was on the table, was still insisting on the original trade package, I just have a hard time believing that.

Why?  Ainge didn't want Turner and McDermott (one or the other, but not both).  Why would it matter if there was another offer if Ainge didn't want that trade package.  I don't necessarily think Ainge was playing hardball, I really just don't think he wanted the package that Indiana was willing to pay.  That is why the deal didn't happen, because neither side was willing to accept what the other side was offering/wanting. 

[footey]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

Please don't spread opinion as fact. It is fine if you want to preface your statement with "I believe...", but, personally, I believe that Hayward's agent was always going to circle back around to all of the teams who showed interest. The fact that CHA offered the most money (which IND didn't match) and his wife specifically mentioned the CHA connection from Hayward's first FA, should give the IND/Turner believers some pause.

why would Indiana match if they couldn't work out a sign and trade with Boston?  There was no point for Indiana to increase their offer to Hayward if Ainge wasn't going to budge on what he wanted, which was too much for Indiana to pay.  If Ainge would have taken Turner, McDermott, and a 1st, then Hayward would almost certainly be in Indiana, but Ainge didn't think that was enough.

Because Charlotte offer substantially weakened Ainge's bargaining position with Indiana, and Ainge may have accepted Indy's original offer once the threat of him going to Charlotte for nuthin came out. If Indy was indeed Gordon's first choice to play, his agent most certainly would have gone back to Indy to ask them (and Boston) and tell them unless the Boston and Indy get their act together, Gordon is gonzo.  My guess is that Indy got deal fatigue negotiating with Ainge, and when Charlotte offer was communicated to them, Indy declined to pursue any further.

That just doesn't match what has been reported though.  Even Ainge himself hinted that he was playing hard ball and regretted it.  Indiana had no incentive to increase its offer to Hayward if Boston wasn't going to accept Turner, McDermott, 1st because that is all Indiana was going to offer.  Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that has been reported from all sides involved was that Ainge was never going to accept that trade package.  The deal didn't get done because of that.

I understand what you are saying. I'm not disagreeing with Ainge's insistence on a better trade package.  What is being discussed above is more nuanced: Did Ainge continue to insist on a better deal once Charlotte offer came into the picture?  Remember that offer came out of left field, frankly it wasn't mentioned by anyone in the media until it was announced that Hayward had agreed to sign with them.  I recall reading reports that Indy was not willing to go that high. If so, this implies that they were at least offered the opportunity to match Charlotte. Your point is, why would Indy bother, if Ainge wouldn't agree to reasonable trade package.  That is speculation on your part. My speculation is that Ainge is a rational business man, and a rational business man would recognize that his bargaining power diminished significantly once the Charlotte offer was on the table, due to its amount and length (recall that the only other reported offers were Knick offers for less $$ and shorter term).  My speculation is that Ainge more likely than not would have been inclined to reduce his offer once the Charlotte offer was on table. But Indy had deal fatigue, and/or was unwilling to increase their offer. (wasn't there published reports that Indy was not willing to pay Gordon that much?  Seem to recall).  If what you are saying is that Ainge, even after the Charlotte offer was on the table, was still insisting on the original trade package, I just have a hard time believing that.

Why?  Ainge didn't want Turner and McDermott (one or the other, but not both).  Why would it matter if there was another offer if Ainge didn't want that trade package.  I don't necessarily think Ainge was playing hardball, I really just don't think he wanted the package that Indiana was willing to pay.  That is why the deal didn't happen, because neither side was willing to accept what the other side was offering/wanting.

Then you are buying into the argument that the TPE was worth more to Ainge than McDermott, Turner plus 1st round pick, which doesn't make sense.  Ainge was trying to bargain hard with Indy because he assumed that Hayward wasn't seriously considering a third option.  The Charlotte offer flipped the script on him. That is my take.