Horford vs Thompson

[Goldstar88]

Easily Horford.  He’s better at everything but rebounding.

But, cost is obviously a gigantic factor.

I agree, but it does raise the question, would obtaining Horford to be that first-guy-off-the-bench-big be enough to put the team into the Finals? And if so, does a trade like the one NKY suggested make sense

Horford for Thompson and parts that get the team under the luxury tax.

I don’t think it makes us a primary contender.  Adding Horford’s $27 million next season and his partially guaranteed season after would not be ideal.

Yeah, the salary next year is possibly problematic if Horford's game declines once more, but there is also the possibility that Ainge can't find a trade to use the TPE on and so the TPE could be wasted.

I don't think OKC would have any problem closing a trade like the proposed one as long as they are saving money and picking up an asset, whether that be youth or pick(s). And, due to the lower guarantee on the final year, I think Horford could be used as salary matching purposes for a 2022 off season trade.

I think the clear answer is Horford would make the team better over the next two years. But better enough to deal for him....I am not so sure. Really torn on that. But I would hate for the TPE to not be used or only part used to get a lesser player.

I started a thread to use the TPE for Horford after only a few games of watching the Theis/Thompson experiment lol. Most scoffed at the idea due to his salary, however, One poster did bring up a good point that if the C’s did trade for Horford and it didn’t work out, least they would have him on the books and could flip him for other players down the line. I think it’s worth a shot if you believe the C’s have a chance of winning it all this year. If not, I’d rather try to get Adams/Drummond/Holmes in the off-season.

[Goldstar88]

Horford had another solid game tonight:16pts, 6rb, 4ast, 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

[gouki88]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

[PAOBoston]

In a vacuum, Horford. But it’s hard when you you look at that deal. I don’t think Horford is washed up but that’s a lot of money for a guy who is declining.

[Somebody]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

To be fair that raw slash line is a typical peak Horford season with us.

[Goldstar88]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

If he fills a need and helps the Celtics to get the next level, it Would be worth an overpay for 2 years. So he’s making an extra $5-7M more than he’s worth. Big deal..There are much worse contracts out there :Griffin at $36.8M, Conley at $34.5M, Love at $32.5M

Honestly, I might prefer having Horford at $27.5M over Kemba at $34.4M. Horford is a multidimensional player. If Kemba’s not scoring, he’s just hurting the team.

[gouki88]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

To be fair that raw slash line is a typical peak Horford season with us.

In that game alone, yeah sure. In his defence, Horford is rebounding better this year than he ever did with us.

However, his defence has fallen off a big cliff, his scoring is way less efficient than the Horford we saw in his last two years here, and his passing is back to Atlanta Horford levels.

[Somebody]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

To be fair that raw slash line is a typical peak Horford season with us.

In that game alone, yeah sure. In his defence, Horford is rebounding better this year than he ever did with us.

However, his defence has fallen off a big cliff, his scoring is way less efficient than the Horford we saw in his last two years here, and his passing is back to Atlanta Horford levels.

I think his dip in passing and scoring efficiency is more about playing on a lottery team with less than ideal coaching, not sure if I buy that he lost his shooting and passing prowess. But yeah his defence has definitely gotten considerably worse.

[Goldstar88]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

To be fair that raw slash line is a typical peak Horford season with us.

In that game alone, yeah sure. In his defence, Horford is rebounding better this year than he ever did with us.

However, his defence has fallen off a big cliff, his scoring is way less efficient than the Horford we saw in his last two years here, and his passing is back to Atlanta Horford levels.

I think his dip in passing and scoring efficiency is more about playing on a lottery team with less than ideal coaching, not sure if I buy that he lost his shooting and passing prowess. But yeah his defence has definitely gotten considerably worse.

You are right regarding his passing and scoring efficiency.  He has to shoot the ball more on his current team and is taking a career high 5.5 3pt shots a game and making them 41% of the time. Per 36M he’s 16.6ppg and 9.8Rb which points wise, ties his best year on the C’s and the rebounding is better than any year he played in Boston. In regards to his defense, I don’t think it has dropped off that much. I’ve watched some of the OKC games. Sure maybe he lost a half a step, but he’s not worse than Theis or Thompson on that end of the court and he’s significantly better on the other end.

[NKY fan]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

Why are people so fixated on the contract not the player?
If we want the Celtics to be the financial champs of the nba ... we have already achieved that goal lol. We have been most likely the most profitable team (could also top the warriors maybe after their luxury tax bill this year lol) the last 10 years that didn’t make the nba finals. We are above the salary cap. We tried the max contract free agent Avenue and didn’t work.
Getting an overpaid role player like the top 15 center that Horford is for nothing in exchange might be the way to go.

[keevsnick]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

Why are people so fixated on the contract not the player?
If we want the Celtics to be the financial champs of the nba ... we have already achieved that goal lol. We have been most likely the most profitable team (could also top the warriors maybe after their luxury tax bill this year lol) the last 10 years that didn’t make the nba finals. We are above the salary cap. We tried the max contract free agent Avenue and didn’t work.
Getting an overpaid role player like the top 15 center that Horford is for nothing in exchange might be the way to go.

No, its not.

There's no way in hell they would do it when he's on that contract, which is why the contract matters. They arent bringing in a guy making 27 million a year for the next three years when they can get the same production for a fraction of the price.

[Goldstar88]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

Why are people so fixated on the contract not the player?
If we want the Celtics to be the financial champs of the nba ... we have already achieved that goal lol. We have been most likely the most profitable team (could also top the warriors maybe after their luxury tax bill this year lol) the last 10 years that didn’t make the nba finals. We are above the salary cap. We tried the max contract free agent Avenue and didn’t work.
Getting an overpaid role player like the top 15 center that Horford is for nothing in exchange might be the way to go.

No, its not.

There's no way in hell they would do it when he's on that contract, which is why the contract matters. They arent bringing in a guy making 27 million a year for the next three years when they can get the same production for a fraction of the price.

The same production for a fraction of the price such as......Who? are you referring Thompson and Theis. They are a fraction of the price, but are also a fraction of the productivity. Who are these players that fit your description? I’m not seeing them.

[NKY fan]

Horford had another solid game tonight. 16pts, 6rb, 4ast 2blk, in 24 mins of play. Horford is 34, He’s younger than Lebron, CP3, PJ Tucker, Melo, Millsap.  I think he’s got a few more good years in him.

At this stage it is essentially irrelevant whether or not he's playing solid basketball. His contract makes him entirely not worth discussing unless he is either bought out or returns to All-Star form.

Why are people so fixated on the contract not the player?
If we want the Celtics to be the financial champs of the nba ... we have already achieved that goal lol. We have been most likely the most profitable team (could also top the warriors maybe after their luxury tax bill this year lol) the last 10 years that didn’t make the nba finals. We are above the salary cap. We tried the max contract free agent Avenue and didn’t work.
Getting an overpaid role player like the top 15 center that Horford is for nothing in exchange might be the way to go.

No, its not.

There's no way in hell they would do it when he's on that contract, which is why the contract matters. They arent bringing in a guy making 27 million a year for the next three years when they can get the same production for a fraction of the price.

The same production for a fraction of the price such as......Who? are you referring Thompson and Theis. They are a fraction of the price, but are also a fraction of the productivity. Who are these players that fit your description? I’m not seeing them.

Some Celtics fans don’t quite get that to get a good player on a reasonable contract you need to give away some asset(s). If the incentive is on the Celtics side (that’s a position that Danny hates to be in) we need to actually overpay to get the player we need. Other teams don’t just give away their good players.
I have posted some trade ideas where we don’t overpay but optimize other teams strategies and still get some decent role players. I think this is the way to go.

[ScoobyDoo]

It's a great question, the right question to ask. We desperately need an upgrade in the front court. In the absence of being able to strike gold with our TPE and bring in a legit 3rd piece next to Tatum and Brown, I would seriously consider the following trade:

To the Celtics from OKC:  Horford, Muscala and George Hill

To OKC from the Celtics: Hayward TPE, use out other TPE's, draft picks and a player or two.

Why: 

1. If you're going to stick with Kemba for the next two years, might as well go in on Horford -their contracts would come up at the same time in two years.

2. Horford gives you a much better match up for Embiid, Giannis and AD should we get that far.

3. Muscala gives us some much needed size at the PF, and shooting.

4. George Hill would allow Smart to play some more three - Hill would meaningfully deepen our rotation.

5. You could then pursue another trade using Tristan Thompson to try and pry away some vet wing


Horford | Horford | Time Lord
Tatum | Muscala | Grant Williams
Brown | Ojeleye | Nesmith
Smart | Hill | Langford
Kemba | Teague | Pritchard

That team can play big or small, increases it's three point shooting and big man depth. It can win a title. OKC wants out of salary and draft picks.

I'd love to swing a deal to get that third star but in the absence of being able to do that, I'd pursue something like this. Tatum and Brown are capable of carrying us to a title but not if Ainge refuses to make moves to round out this team, particularly in the frontcourt. The othe rmove I'd seriously consider if I couldn't,  A) get the thrid star with the TPE and players, picks, or B) swing the OKC deal above, would be to C) go after Drummond with the TPE and draft picks.

Drummond
Tatum 
Brown
Smart
Kemba

With Theis, Thompson, Grant Williams, Time Lord, Ojeleye, Langofrd, Teague and Pritchard can also win a title.

My guess is Ainge does nothing though - short selling this team's shot at a title this year.       

   

[boscel33]

From an age perspective, Thompson fits better with this team, but [dang], something is amiss there.