Author Topic: John Collins  (Read 1870 times)

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John Collins
« on: January 11, 2021, 10:17:05 AM »

Online Roy H.

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John Collins remains unhappy in Atlanta.  Hes not thrilled with Trae Youngs ability to run the offense:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1347562454306484226

We have a pretty large hole at PF, and Collins would fit our offense.

What about Marcus Smart for Collins, straight up?

Theis / Thompson / Timelord
Collins / Williams
Tatum
Brown
Kemba / Pritchard / Teague

Until Romeo or Nesmith start contributing it leaves us weak at wing, but I think it makes us better.



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Re: John Collins
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2021, 10:21:23 AM »

Offline lrybrd

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Better yet - how about Smart for Collins & Huerter.  Takes care of the wing issue.

Re: John Collins
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2021, 10:25:22 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Better yet - how about Smart for Collins & Huerter.  Takes care of the wing issue.

If theyd accept, for sure.
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Re: John Collins
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2021, 10:35:14 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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What do we think about the ability to retain Collins going forward? I believe he is a RFA this summer. Does anybody think someone will toss a max to be matched his way? I have always wondered if he could improve defensively with the right coach. His athleticism is off the charts and he should theoretically be able to play 4/5 in the modern nba.
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Re: John Collins
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2021, 11:01:57 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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I think Collins would be used as a center here.

'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: John Collins
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2021, 11:03:01 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I think Collins would be used as a center here.

Why? Stephens has been running out two-big lineups, and Collins is a natural power forward.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: John Collins
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2021, 11:04:47 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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I think Collins would be used as a center here.

Why? Stephens has been running out two-big lineups, and Collins is a natural power forward.

I don think Stephens has been running 2 big lineups out of preference but necessity.

But what do I know. not much.
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: John Collins
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2021, 11:11:48 AM »

Online Moranis

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I don't think Atlanta would do Smart for Collins straight up, but I'd certainly do that. 

Maybe

Smart, Williams (either one), and maybe a 21 1st

for

Collins, Snell

I think that makes more sense value wise as Collins is clearly the best player in that trade.  I like Smart, but Collins is just better.  Snell is due to play any day now so he provides some quality depth at SG. 


Post Trade - Healthy roster

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Collins, Thompson
Rotation - Teague, Snell, Pritchard, Langford, Theis, Williams (the other one)
Deep Bench - Nesmith, Ojeleye, Edwards, Green
TW - Waters, Fall

I think that team is much more balanced for this year, but I'd do the trade more for the future.  I think Collins could be the 3rd guy on a contender when when Tatum and Brown are at peak potential in the future, so I'd do the trade for that reason alone.  Obviously have to keep Collins, but I'd be all in for that as the team needs his size and skill set a lot more than they need Smart. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: John Collins
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2021, 11:13:02 AM »

Online Moranis

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I think Collins would be used as a center here.

Why? Stephens has been running out two-big lineups, and Collins is a natural power forward.

I don think Stephens has been running 2 big lineups out of preference but necessity.

But what do I know. not much.
He has been running 2 big lineups because Tatum isn't a PF and he knows it.  Tatum is at his best while playing SF and Tatum is Boston's  best player so you want to maximize his ability more than anyone else.
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: John Collins
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2021, 11:13:47 AM »

Offline td450

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What do we think about the ability to retain Collins going forward? I believe he is a RFA this summer. Does anybody think someone will toss a max to be matched his way? I have always wondered if he could improve defensively with the right coach. His athleticism is off the charts and he should theoretically be able to play 4/5 in the modern nba.

The problem isn't getting him, its keeping him.

He sees himself as a max player. His numbers last year are mind boggling, and it is difficult to guess what teams will offer.

He has a weird valuation problem. If he is viewed as a legit 40% 3pt shooter, which he did pull off last year, he is super valuable. However, that was an outlier. His entire other career, including so far this year, he's a 34% 3 pt shooter. Still a very interesting young player, but that difference decides whether he stretches defenses or doesn't, and that matters a lot.

Re: John Collins
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2021, 11:17:31 AM »

Online Moranis

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What do we think about the ability to retain Collins going forward? I believe he is a RFA this summer. Does anybody think someone will toss a max to be matched his way? I have always wondered if he could improve defensively with the right coach. His athleticism is off the charts and he should theoretically be able to play 4/5 in the modern nba.

The problem isn't getting him, its keeping him.

He sees himself as a max player. His numbers last year are mind boggling, and it is difficult to guess what teams will offer.

He has a weird valuation problem. If he is viewed as a legit 40% 3pt shooter, which he did pull off last year, he is super valuable. However, that was an outlier. His entire other career, including so far this year, he's a 34% 3 pt shooter. Still a very interesting young player, but that difference decides whether he stretches defenses or doesn't, and that matters a lot.
At 34% he still stretches defenses because you can't leave him open.  That isn't elite, but is absolutely good enough to keep teams honest, which all you need from Collins.

I expect Collins to get something like 4 years, 100 million.  I'd pay that without giving it a second thought.  Wouldn't be surprised to see him get a max offer though and frankly I'd pay him that if his play the rest of the year triggers that sort of valuation. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: John Collins
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2021, 11:19:20 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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I think Collins would be used as a center here.

Why? Stephens has been running out two-big lineups, and Collins is a natural power forward.

I don think Stephens has been running 2 big lineups out of preference but necessity.

But what do I know. not much.

    My belief on the 2 big thing is Brad was playing the best guys but also the guys wed be using when (  in best case scenario) everybody is healthy. 
   Im still surprised we got Tristan Thompson at all. I was over the moon but I didnt think Stevens saw value in Tristan due to not looking at the hoop from outside.
  Did Danny force it on him or change his thinking as well? I have no idea. But I agree that Collins certainly has the athletic ability to move his feet as a 4 in the NBA.
 Ive had so many terrible takes through the years so whats one more but I do think a lineup of Kemba/ Jaylen/ Tatum/ Collins/ Thompson with Smart/ Teague /Pritchard / Theis is pretty great and Id pick to win the East as well as challenge for a title this year.
  Who knows what deal the Lakers will make to better there team though . I also think theres a good chance someone offers Collins a max or close to it. It may not be a good team but it still would likely be a one and done . Having no idea what Kembas future is with his knee surely makes these decisions much harder.

Re: John Collins
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2021, 11:36:13 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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John Collins remains unhappy in Atlanta.  Hes not thrilled with Trae Youngs ability to run the offense:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1347562454306484226

We have a pretty large hole at PF, and Collins would fit our offense.

What about Marcus Smart for Collins, straight up?

Theis / Thompson / Timelord
Collins / Williams
Tatum
Brown
Kemba / Pritchard / Teague

Until Romeo or Nesmith start contributing it leaves us weak at wing, but I think it makes us better.

Id love if the Cs traded for Collins, but I dont see why Atlanta would trade away their second best player for Smart. Especially when they already have Trae Young, Huerter, Rondo, Bogdonovic and Reddish at the guard position.

Also, Smart makes $13M per year and Collins makes $4M, so how would that work? Is this a 3 team trade or would there be other players involved.


Re: John Collins
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2021, 11:37:09 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Better yet - how about Smart for Collins & Huerter.  Takes care of the wing issue.


I think you are seriously overvaluing Smart lol

Re: John Collins
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2021, 11:43:08 AM »

Offline footey

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I would probably do this trade, although Collins is better suited at the 5 than the 4.  Really Tatum is almost a prototype 4 in today's NBA.  Or Grant or Siakam.   Can Collins cover guys like that on defense? Can he cover wings when switching necessitates? Haven't studied him enough, but am skeptical.

I'd still do the trade because ATL is desperate to make playoffs, and they just lost Bogdonavich to knee injury.  I also believe that the emergence of Pritchard will fulfill back up PG responsibilities that Smart would normally handle, and that Romeo will be able to handle much of the defensive role of Smart, although he obviously lacks Smart's panache. 

Maybe hold off to see how we jell when Kemba and Romeo gets back. Can't really judge our team until the entire team can play together.

If more trade capital needed, I'd add G Williams but not R Williams; R Williams upside is too valuable to throw in like that.