I'm treating these games as extension of preseason

[rollie mass]

Training camp and preseason a joke. The addition of Tristain and Teague j .The loss of Kemba and integration of a rookie Prichard .And the huge loss of Gordon Hayward.
The refs taking of The" Theis Signature Seal" away and calling them a a foul .
Some missed foul shots, stepping out of bounds and 5 turnovers by Tatum the team is still out of sync

[CFAN38]

I agree,

Its really to early to panic over the play on the court. The one thing I am concerned about is the over all construction of the bench unit. The loss of Hayward and moving of Smart to the starting lineup has left a major void on the wing behind the Js. While not as important as the healthy return of Walkers the healthy return (and growth) of Langford may be a key to this season.

In his rookie season Langford surprised me as a defender if he can come back from his injury and build on that he could be the answers to many of the Cs bench issues

[PhoSita]

I agree with you -- to the extent that the team looks kinda sloppy and aren't hitting shots they ought to make more often, I feel OK chalking that up to the lack of training camp and preseason.


I am also alarmed by what you pointed out, i.e. refs emphasizing the seal as a foul.  Basically trying to push Theis out of the league.

[Jiri Welsch]

I agree with you -- to the extent that the team looks kinda sloppy and aren't hitting shots they ought to make more often, I feel OK chalking that up to the lack of training camp and preseason.


I am also alarmed by what you pointed out, i.e. refs emphasizing the seal as a foul.  Basically trying to push Theis out of the league.

Is that a point of emphasis this year, or did the refs in the Nets game just stink? (Genuine question)

[bopna]

Panic or not the team is just not elite right now with Tatum and JB at the helm.

we need a Luka Doncic type leader and Tatum as good as he is he definitely a notch below Luka in every facet.

The freaking Hornets just beat the Elite Nets which pummelled us the other night...

right now our match in the league are the freaking Knicks.

[Moranis]

This is who this team is without Kemba.  I mean it is starting only 2 players that are even average offensive players (they are both better than average, but no one else is even average).  It is a team with 3 solid players and a whole heck of a lot of role players and one of the 3 solid players is out and the other 2 are both good, but not great.  This was always going to be a 2nd round at best type playoff team when healthy and a mediocre team without 1 of the top 3.  The team just isn't good enough to win a title and it won't be for the foreseeable future without some drastic moves.  That is one of the reasons I've been advocating for a Brown/Smart for Harden swap.  That team actually would have a real chance to win a title, this one is pretty close to nearing the treadmill of mediocrity. 

[footey]

This is who this team is without Kemba.  I mean it is starting only 2 players that are even average offensive players (they are both better than average, but no one else is even average).  It is a team with 3 solid players and a whole heck of a lot of role players and one of the 3 solid players is out and the other 2 are both good, but not great.  This was always going to be a 2nd round at best type playoff team when healthy and a mediocre team without 1 of the top 3.  The team just isn't good enough to win a title and it won't be for the foreseeable future without some drastic moves.  That is one of the reasons I've been advocating for a Brown/Smart for Harden swap.  That team actually would have a real chance to win a title, this one is pretty close to nearing the treadmill of mediocrity.

Tatum/Harden > Durant/Kyrie?

[PhoSita]

I agree with you -- to the extent that the team looks kinda sloppy and aren't hitting shots they ought to make more often, I feel OK chalking that up to the lack of training camp and preseason.


I am also alarmed by what you pointed out, i.e. refs emphasizing the seal as a foul.  Basically trying to push Theis out of the league.

Is that a point of emphasis this year, or did the refs in the Nets game just stink? (Genuine question)

I honestly don't know but the fact that the refs have been calling it against Theis when it wasn't being called before makes me think that some coaches with cache (e.g. Nick Nurse, Spoelstra, etc) made some calls to the league office to complain about Theis's signature move.

[nickagneta]

Yes, it is an extension of preseason but I think the Celtics have also run into some very high quality teams.

It's pretty clear they need Kemba but it's also extremely clear they need to be better in the third quarter.

[Moranis]

This is who this team is without Kemba.  I mean it is starting only 2 players that are even average offensive players (they are both better than average, but no one else is even average).  It is a team with 3 solid players and a whole heck of a lot of role players and one of the 3 solid players is out and the other 2 are both good, but not great.  This was always going to be a 2nd round at best type playoff team when healthy and a mediocre team without 1 of the top 3.  The team just isn't good enough to win a title and it won't be for the foreseeable future without some drastic moves.  That is one of the reasons I've been advocating for a Brown/Smart for Harden swap.  That team actually would have a real chance to win a title, this one is pretty close to nearing the treadmill of mediocrity.

Tatum/Harden > Durant/Kyrie?

Ah yes because there are only 2 players on the team.  Walker is by far better than anyone else on Brooklyn.  That said, I do believe Irving is the worst player in that group, though Durant is the best.  I don't think it is crazy to say Boston is better though, especially as Durant and Irving are missing games and taking days off. 

[Who]

This is who this team is without Kemba.  I mean it is starting only 2 players that are even average offensive players (they are both better than average, but no one else is even average).  It is a team with 3 solid players and a whole heck of a lot of role players and one of the 3 solid players is out and the other 2 are both good, but not great.  This was always going to be a 2nd round at best type playoff team when healthy and a mediocre team without 1 of the top 3.  The team just isn't good enough to win a title and it won't be for the foreseeable future without some drastic moves.  That is one of the reasons I've been advocating for a Brown/Smart for Harden swap.  That team actually would have a real chance to win a title, this one is pretty close to nearing the treadmill of mediocrity.

Agreed. There is a disturbing lack of ball-handling & passing on the perimeter right now without (a) Kemba (b) Hayward (c) or playing with two PGs.

There is also a disturbing lack of floor spacing when T.Thompson and Theis play together which compounds this lack of ball-handling and passing further.

And the team still hasn't replaced Al Horford -- a big man who can facilitate an offense. So they are missing Kemba, Hayward and Horford! Three huge holes.

Further compounded by an inexperienced and weak bench mob that has massive deficits at the SG, SF and PF positions. So they have a lack of guys that can step in and provide quality contributions when a main player (like Kemba) is missing.

It is a talent issue.

And to a lesser extent, a lineup based issue in terms of CBS choosing defense over offense. As seen by the Theis - T.Thompson starting combo instead of getting another guard in there to help Smart with the ball-handling. Playing guys like Grant Williams and Semi instead of Nesmith who has more scoring punch.

[Rondo9]

real chance to win a title, this one is pretty close to nearing the treadmill of mediocrity.

Mediocrity with two young promising players?

[Moranis]

real chance to win a title, this one is pretty close to nearing the treadmill of mediocrity.

Mediocrity with two young promising players?

Yes.  2nd round playoff type team without a major move.  Will be that way for awhile.  Just not enough talent.  I mean look at other teams that were in that realm for years.  Teams like the Hawks.  Horford, Smith, Williams, and Childress all in their early 20's when their playoff run started and still youngish guys like Johnson in his late 20's.  Top 3 picks in Horford and Williams, and Childress was the 6th pick so high level talent.  Now I think Tatum and Brown can be better than those guys, but there isn't anything else on the team that I'd trust to do anything outside of the Walker (who is old and injured) and Smart as a role player (that is all he is).  The team is headed towards the treadmill of mediocrity very quickly and I love Tatum.  I think he could be a top 5 guy in the league, but that, even with a top 20ish guy like Brown, isn't going to be winning titles as Tatum isn't one of those special room type talents.

This year we are finally seeing what I've been saying was coming for awhile i.e. a team that is both trying to win now and build for the future does neither well.  This middle of the road approach was never going to build a contender and we are seeing the results of it.  Ainge has to pick a direction or it is just going to get worse.  And that direction might very well be selling off Walker and hoping you can land a 3rd young guy to pair with Tatum and Brown.  It could also be pulling the trigger on a trade like Harden.  But he needs to do something or we are going to have 5 years of early playoff exits because the team just isn't going to be good enough for more than that.

[PhoSita]

the thing is i've been hearing for years about how the Celts need to pick a direction or else we're going to see endless early playoff exits, yet they've made the ECF 3/4 years despite a ton of roster turnover.

Tatum is a bigger star than anybody on those Hawks teams.  I also trust Brad as a playoff coach more than Mike Woodson or Coach Bud.


this year's version of the Celts probably isn't deep enough to go all the way.  Tatum and Brown probably need to each take another leap and the supporting cast needs to get deeper and more reliable.

the team has the TPE and other assets to use.  i'm not assuming this roster is going to stay the same all this season and I'm sure Ainge has plans for retooling / improving the supporting cast.

[Moranis]

the thing is i've been hearing for years about how the Celts need to pick a direction or else we're going to see endless early playoff exits, yet they've made the ECF 3/4 years despite a ton of roster turnover.

Tatum is a bigger star than anybody on those Hawks teams.  I also trust Brad as a playoff coach more than Mike Woodson or Coach Bud.


this year's version of the Celts probably isn't deep enough to go all the way.  Tatum and Brown probably need to each take another leap and the supporting cast needs to get deeper and more reliable.

the team has the TPE and other assets to use.  i'm not assuming this roster is going to stay the same all this season and I'm sure Ainge has plans for retooling / improving the supporting cast.

This team is worse than any team of the last 3 years.  There is no Horford or Hayward on the roster (Walker is a lesser version of Irving so a downgrade there).  Now obviously Brown and Tatum will get better, but part of the reason Boston was able to go on those runs was quality depth.  The team was always going to lose that depth since it couldn't sustain that sort of salary structure going forward, especially on a team that doesn't have a top tier player (hopefully Tatum gets there, but he isn't that close yet).  The TPE is obviously nice, but Boston doesn't really have the assets to acquire a difference maker with it, so sure it can add some depth, but that depth won't be as good as the players that the team has lost.  This was a foreseeable scenario.  It was always going to happen.  Frankly, the bubble probably let Boston advance further than it otherwise would have, because I don't think it is beating Toronto in Toronto (whereas the bubble took that away).  I mean the Christmas day win last year was the first win in Toronto since the 14/15 season and Siakam didn't play in that one.