Rumor: Raptors and Celtics the two favorites for James Harden

[tazzmaniac]

Smart + trade via utlizing TPE = matching Harden salary or as close to... could be the most economical route. Without giving up Brown. Cant see also Kemba going anywhere.  He did the Celtics a solid by signing here last season. Danny trading him away = death sentence for future key FA signing potential

Going back to Harden, this situation reminds me of Kyrie or Leonard trades

Sure Rockets want equal perceived value. But their is no such market.... and taking the next best option is better than nothing.  Waiting game unlikely improves...Especially if Harden gets injured. Rockets would be in trouble

You were told above that the TPE doesn't work that way.  It can't be combined with players' salaries to salary match.  A TPE can't even be combined with other TPEs.  A TPE can only be used to absorb salary of traded player(s) up to the amount of the TPE.  If Harden was only making 25M, we could use the TPE to trade for Harden without including any players.  Since he makes 41M, the TPE is useless for trading for Harden. 

[tazzmaniac]

Now that the Jazz have secured Gobert and know Conley is likely to walk after this year, I bet they’d go for this trade to secure their next three years. Rockets get an unheard of six first-round picks (and six second-round picks) and the Rockets’ owner guarantees that Morey fails in Philly (plus, they can flip Conley to a contender at the deadline for another pick or two):

https://tradenba.com/trades/-iwzTG0ue

Harden
Smart
Brown
Tatum
TT

= 2021 NBA Championship or Bust

If it does not work, flip Harden next year and we’ve still got our core of Tatum, Brown and Smart. A nice hedge. The key is getting Utah to flip Conley and picks for Kemba.

You must be jokin

If Paul George is worth five first-round picks and Gilgeous-Alexander, Harden is worth six first-round picks and six second-round picks. A dozen picks, Langford (lottery player), R. Williams and Conley (flip for another pick at the deadline). A blockbuster trade to get a top five superstar. Otherwise, we gotta give up Brown to get our MVP candidate. I value Brown over those picks.

Paul George only went for that much because Kawhi forced the Clips to trade for George before Kawhi would sign as a free agent.  Kawhi as a 1 year rental only got the Spurs DeRozan.  Harden has 2 years on his contract so would get a better return than Kawhi but not close to what the Clips paid for George.

[mmmmm]

Is this trade possible

To Magic: Langford, Timelord, Trade exception

To Rockets: Aaron Gordon, Marcus Smart, Carsen Edwards, Future 1st, 2nd

To Celtics: Harden

Does this check out? 

A TPE is not traded 'out' to another team.  It can only be used to absorb (match) incoming salary.  And it cannot be combined with other outgoing salary in the same matching transaction.

The above has the Celtics sending out Langford (3.6M), Time Lord (2M), Smart (13.4M) & Edwards (1.5M), for around 21M of out-going salary.   As I said, it cannot be combined with the 27M TPE.

Harden's incoming salary is 41M.

This trade does not work.

The only way a Harden trade realistically works is by sending out Jaylen or Kemba (plus stuff).  And Houston just got Wall -- they aren't looking to get Kemba.

Ultimately, making a deal for Harden work isn't impossible.  But the price is going to be pretty steep, just because of the salary matching involved.

I'm gonna go waaaaay out on a real crazy limb and assert that this 'rumor' is nothing more than a troll job by a local sports jock looking for attention and that James Harden will not be wearing Celtic green anytime in the near future.

So if you cant combine salaries.. only thing that can be done is send out picks as compensation? 

It would take like 3 1sts for Gordon.. a little too rich imo

You can send out salary at the 'same time' as you make use of a TPE, but they can't combine with the TPE for matching purposes.   Their transactions have to be recorded as separate trades.

You can work around this by first using the TPE to trade for a player and then, after waiting the required vesting period of 60 days, send them out in a trade with other players.   I.E., when you recieve a player in trade, if you don't trade them immediately, you normally must wait 60 days before they can be combined with other players for salary matching.   The NBA may have modified that wait period this year due to the compressed schedule.

I.E., to fully work your scenario where we used Aaron Gordon's contract as part of the salary matching you would have to do it this way:

Step 1:  Trade for Aaron Gordon, receiving his salary using the TPE.

Step 2:  Wait 60 days (or whatever the waiting period is for this year).

Step 3:  Trade package consisting of Aaron Gordon, Smart & the others in your package to Houston for Harden.

This sort of transaction, since it involves multiple teams and such a long trigger-pull with the season already started seems highly unlikely to occur.   That sort of thing is usually done during the summer.

I also want it on record that I, personally, have no great desire to see James Harden as a Celtic.

[GreenWarrior]

Hmm....this thing has some legs, then.

Regardless how we all feel about Harden dude is BONAFIDE.

One of the greatest scorers of all time. You can't make anymore jokes about his defense, either - he's gotten better in that area, too.

Add in the fact that at his age he is HUNGRY.

Whatever mistakes he's made in the past I'd bet he's focused on WINNING, now.

Coming to BOS would probably be his LAST chance.

"IF" he gets here he'd be ok.

Talent like that...all you do is unpackage him, turn him loose and enjoy the show.

If your coach can't handle nba players and you're in the nba then you need a new coach.

And what culture? What is this mythical culture that celtics fans have created in their minds?

Because this same mythical culture would have never brought us KG if we hung onto this intangible concept that only exists in this fictitious reality.

Huh? That last statement is non-sensical.

The Celtics have from the 60's thru the 80's and then during Garnet's era definitely had a unique culture - different from the rest of the NBA. Go back and read quotes from Jerry West about Russell's Celtic teams. Look at the 70's group led by Cowens and Havlicek and JoJo. Paul Silas talked about his disbelief of any 'Celtic Pride' until he got here and realized there was something special about the franchise and he said so. Charlie Scott, the same. The 80's speak for themselves. The Garnett teams had a togetherness unlike any in the modern NBA. All those players still talk about their time here, the unity they shared and have stayed in touch, as a group, since then. The one unifying factor in the first three title eras was Red Auerbach. What other franchise had the same man in charge of the team for 5+ decades and built multiple & separate title teams ?

So Yes, I would say the Celtics have had a long history of winning created by sacrifice, togetherness, selflessness, courage, intensity, pride and loyalty. We have more pure tradition than any other franchise. I will grant you that there have been some shaky years since the Len Bias and Reggie Lewis tragedies, which robbed the Celtics of the future Red had brilliantly created for them. As Red became older and had less direct involvement, bad mistakes were made (Rick Pitino) that damaged our long-time culture.

Garnett brought Celtic Pride back and then some, and as much as Danny helped  create that era, he ruined it by trading Perk. Danny's done well with the rebuild, but never had Red's genius for cultivating togetherness and loyalty. Far from it. So, here we are in 2020 and the Celtics future looks bright. Can Danny bring in a few more key pieces to make this a championship group and soften his reputation for being a cold-blooded manager ? Can he add to the Celtics long held traditions and values in a complex league ? As a fan since 1969, when I fell in love with the underdog "Old Champions," I hope and pray that the answer will be Yes.

Final Thought: James Harden is the Anti-Celtic.

That's great.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but it's 2020 and today's players DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT!

As far as they're concerned, we're the timberwolves.

Today's players want to play where it's warm or where the superstars are... And the superstars want to play where it's warm.

The league is a farm team for the lakers and now the clippers. That is reality.

[Vermont Green]

In order to construct realistic possibilities, you need to stay within a reasonable framework of what the NBA would allow and what value our assets really have.  First, our TPEs are not really in play for Harden.  He does not fit within any of them and since they cannot be combined, they are not going to help get Harden other than maybe in the off season.

With no TPE in play, outgoing salaries need to be roughly equal to Harden.  Harden is $41.2M.  To get there, you either need to include Kemba ($34.3M) or BOTH Brown ($22.7M) and Smart ($12.9M), and still throw in Langford or someone like that in either case.

Kemba is currently hurt and just underwent an experimental treatment on his knee.  It is going to be very hard to include Kemba in this either directly to Houston or via a third team.  Healthy, it is a different story but right now, I don't see it.  I have not seen any realistic 3rd team option where Kemba gets back some young players that Houston would like (or where Houston wouldn't just trade Harden directly to the 3rd team).

That leaves a trade starting with Brown AND Smart.  That is probably something that Houston would at least consider, it is fair from their perspective, but someone can beat this or Houston may decide it is just not worth it and wait.  But if you think we are going to get Harden, I hope you are thinking Brown and Smart.

For me, I would love the team if we got Harden for Kemba and could keep Smart, Brown, Tatum but I don't see how that happens.  I am not so keen on a team with Kemba, Harden, and Tatum.

[Tr1boy]

Is this trade possible

To Magic: Langford, Timelord, Trade exception

To Rockets: Aaron Gordon, Marcus Smart, Carsen Edwards, Future 1st, 2nd

To Celtics: Harden

Does this check out? 

A TPE is not traded 'out' to another team.  It can only be used to absorb (match) incoming salary.  And it cannot be combined with other outgoing salary in the same matching transaction.

The above has the Celtics sending out Langford (3.6M), Time Lord (2M), Smart (13.4M) & Edwards (1.5M), for around 21M of out-going salary.   As I said, it cannot be combined with the 27M TPE.

Harden's incoming salary is 41M.

This trade does not work.

The only way a Harden trade realistically works is by sending out Jaylen or Kemba (plus stuff).  And Houston just got Wall -- they aren't looking to get Kemba.

Ultimately, making a deal for Harden work isn't impossible.  But the price is going to be pretty steep, just because of the salary matching involved.

I'm gonna go waaaaay out on a real crazy limb and assert that this 'rumor' is nothing more than a troll job by a local sports jock looking for attention and that James Harden will not be wearing Celtic green anytime in the near future.

So if you cant combine salaries.. only thing that can be done is send out picks as compensation? 

It would take like 3 1sts for Gordon.. a little too rich imo

You can send out salary at the 'same time' as you make use of a TPE, but they can't combine with the TPE for matching purposes.   Their transactions have to be recorded as separate trades.

You can work around this by first using the TPE to trade for a player and then, after waiting the required vesting period of 60 days, send them out in a trade with other players.   I.E., when you recieve a player in trade, if you don't trade them immediately, you normally must wait 60 days before they can be combined with other players for salary matching.   The NBA may have modified that wait period this year due to the compressed schedule.

I.E., to fully work your scenario where we used Aaron Gordon's contract as part of the salary matching you would have to do it this way:

Step 1:  Trade for Aaron Gordon, receiving his salary using the TPE.

Step 2:  Wait 60 days (or whatever the waiting period is for this year).

Step 3:  Trade package consisting of Aaron Gordon, Smart & the others in your package to Houston for Harden.

This sort of transaction, since it involves multiple teams and such a long trigger-pull with the season already started seems highly unlikely to occur.   That sort of thing is usually done during the summer.

I also want it on record that I, personally, have no great desire to see James Harden as a Celtic.

Thx

So the trade idea I had before can work.  Send Timelord and Langford for matching salary scrubs in return from magic (deal 1). And for Aaron Gordon only send a 2nd round pick (deal 2).  Absorbing his salary using the tpe

Both teams get what they want

But like you said the waiting period of 60 days makes this a problem (execute a three way)

[SHAQATTACK]

Hmm....this thing has some legs, then.

Regardless how we all feel about Harden dude is BONAFIDE.

One of the greatest scorers of all time. You can't make anymore jokes about his defense, either - he's gotten better in that area, too.

Add in the fact that at his age he is HUNGRY.

Whatever mistakes he's made in the past I'd bet he's focused on WINNING, now.

Coming to BOS would probably be his LAST chance.

"IF" he gets here he'd be ok.

Talent like that...all you do is unpackage him, turn him loose and enjoy the show.

If your coach can't handle nba players and you're in the nba then you need a new coach.

And what culture? What is this mythical culture that celtics fans have created in their minds?

Because this same mythical culture would have never brought us KG if we hung onto this intangible concept that only exists in this fictitious reality.

Huh? That last statement is non-sensical.

The Celtics have from the 60's thru the 80's and then during Garnet's era definitely had a unique culture - different from the rest of the NBA. Go back and read quotes from Jerry West about Russell's Celtic teams. Look at the 70's group led by Cowens and Havlicek and JoJo. Paul Silas talked about his disbelief of any 'Celtic Pride' until he got here and realized there was something special about the franchise and he said so. Charlie Scott, the same. The 80's speak for themselves. The Garnett teams had a togetherness unlike any in the modern NBA. All those players still talk about their time here, the unity they shared and have stayed in touch, as a group, since then. The one unifying factor in the first three title eras was Red Auerbach. What other franchise had the same man in charge of the team for 5+ decades and built multiple & separate title teams ?

So Yes, I would say the Celtics have had a long history of winning created by sacrifice, togetherness, selflessness, courage, intensity, pride and loyalty. We have more pure tradition than any other franchise. I will grant you that there have been some shaky years since the Len Bias and Reggie Lewis tragedies, which robbed the Celtics of the future Red had brilliantly created for them. As Red became older and had less direct involvement, bad mistakes were made (Rick Pitino) that damaged our long-time culture.

Garnett brought Celtic Pride back and then some, and as much as Danny helped  create that era, he ruined it by trading Perk. Danny's done well with the rebuild, but never had Red's genius for cultivating togetherness and loyalty. Far from it. So, here we are in 2020 and the Celtics future looks bright. Can Danny bring in a few more key pieces to make this a championship group and soften his reputation for being a cold-blooded manager ? Can he add to the Celtics long held traditions and values in a complex league ? As a fan since 1969, when I fell in love with the underdog "Old Champions," I hope and pray that the answer will be Yes.

Final Thought: James Harden is the Anti-Celtic.

That's great.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but it's 2020 and today's players DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT!

As far as they're concerned, we're the timberwolves.

Today's players want to play where it's warm or where the superstars are... And the superstars want to play where it's warm.

The league is a farm team for the lakers and now the clippers. That is reality.

Pretty much the way it is .   NBA did not help themselves in terms of distribution of stars across the countryor the other teams by putting the clippers in LA .   Now clippers is a landing spot for unlucky stars who did not get to play for Lakers ....waiting booth for a position  to open up on the Lakers roster .  No matter how awful the mgmt or situation is ,  the nba stars want to pile in there to one spot.

[JohnBoy65]

Hmm....this thing has some legs, then.

Regardless how we all feel about Harden dude is BONAFIDE.

One of the greatest scorers of all time. You can't make anymore jokes about his defense, either - he's gotten better in that area, too.

Add in the fact that at his age he is HUNGRY.

Whatever mistakes he's made in the past I'd bet he's focused on WINNING, now.

Coming to BOS would probably be his LAST chance.

"IF" he gets here he'd be ok.

Talent like that...all you do is unpackage him, turn him loose and enjoy the show.

If your coach can't handle nba players and you're in the nba then you need a new coach.

And what culture? What is this mythical culture that celtics fans have created in their minds?

Because this same mythical culture would have never brought us KG if we hung onto this intangible concept that only exists in this fictitious reality.

Huh? That last statement is non-sensical.

The Celtics have from the 60's thru the 80's and then during Garnet's era definitely had a unique culture - different from the rest of the NBA. Go back and read quotes from Jerry West about Russell's Celtic teams. Look at the 70's group led by Cowens and Havlicek and JoJo. Paul Silas talked about his disbelief of any 'Celtic Pride' until he got here and realized there was something special about the franchise and he said so. Charlie Scott, the same. The 80's speak for themselves. The Garnett teams had a togetherness unlike any in the modern NBA. All those players still talk about their time here, the unity they shared and have stayed in touch, as a group, since then. The one unifying factor in the first three title eras was Red Auerbach. What other franchise had the same man in charge of the team for 5+ decades and built multiple & separate title teams ?

So Yes, I would say the Celtics have had a long history of winning created by sacrifice, togetherness, selflessness, courage, intensity, pride and loyalty. We have more pure tradition than any other franchise. I will grant you that there have been some shaky years since the Len Bias and Reggie Lewis tragedies, which robbed the Celtics of the future Red had brilliantly created for them. As Red became older and had less direct involvement, bad mistakes were made (Rick Pitino) that damaged our long-time culture.

Garnett brought Celtic Pride back and then some, and as much as Danny helped  create that era, he ruined it by trading Perk. Danny's done well with the rebuild, but never had Red's genius for cultivating togetherness and loyalty. Far from it. So, here we are in 2020 and the Celtics future looks bright. Can Danny bring in a few more key pieces to make this a championship group and soften his reputation for being a cold-blooded manager ? Can he add to the Celtics long held traditions and values in a complex league ? As a fan since 1969, when I fell in love with the underdog "Old Champions," I hope and pray that the answer will be Yes.

Final Thought: James Harden is the Anti-Celtic.

That's great.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but it's 2020 and today's players DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT!

As far as they're concerned, we're the timberwolves.

Today's players want to play where it's warm or where the superstars are... And the superstars want to play where it's warm.

The league is a farm team for the lakers and now the clippers. That is reality.

Pretty much the way it is .   NBA did not help themselves in terms of distribution of stars across the countryor the other teams by putting the clippers in LA .   Now clippers is a landing spot for unlucky stars who did not get to play for Lakers ....waiting booth for a position  to open up on the Lakers roster .  No matter how awful the mgmt or situation is ,  the nba stars want to pile in there to one spot.

Huh? Because there are 4 good players in LA that's the only place stars want to go?

Giannis resigned with the Bucks
Tatum resigned with the Celtics
Gobert+Mitchell resigned with the Jazz
Paul went to the Suns
Murray resigned with the Nuggets
Embid and Simmons resigned with the 76ers.

I know Celtics fans like to hate on LA, but I just don't see the trove of stars running to LA like some posters are suggesting.

[td450]

Hmm....this thing has some legs, then.

Regardless how we all feel about Harden dude is BONAFIDE.

One of the greatest scorers of all time. You can't make anymore jokes about his defense, either - he's gotten better in that area, too.

Add in the fact that at his age he is HUNGRY.

Whatever mistakes he's made in the past I'd bet he's focused on WINNING, now.

Coming to BOS would probably be his LAST chance.

"IF" he gets here he'd be ok.

Talent like that...all you do is unpackage him, turn him loose and enjoy the show.

If your coach can't handle nba players and you're in the nba then you need a new coach.

And what culture? What is this mythical culture that celtics fans have created in their minds?

Because this same mythical culture would have never brought us KG if we hung onto this intangible concept that only exists in this fictitious reality.

Huh? That last statement is non-sensical.

The Celtics have from the 60's thru the 80's and then during Garnet's era definitely had a unique culture - different from the rest of the NBA. Go back and read quotes from Jerry West about Russell's Celtic teams. Look at the 70's group led by Cowens and Havlicek and JoJo. Paul Silas talked about his disbelief of any 'Celtic Pride' until he got here and realized there was something special about the franchise and he said so. Charlie Scott, the same. The 80's speak for themselves. The Garnett teams had a togetherness unlike any in the modern NBA. All those players still talk about their time here, the unity they shared and have stayed in touch, as a group, since then. The one unifying factor in the first three title eras was Red Auerbach. What other franchise had the same man in charge of the team for 5+ decades and built multiple & separate title teams ?

So Yes, I would say the Celtics have had a long history of winning created by sacrifice, togetherness, selflessness, courage, intensity, pride and loyalty. We have more pure tradition than any other franchise. I will grant you that there have been some shaky years since the Len Bias and Reggie Lewis tragedies, which robbed the Celtics of the future Red had brilliantly created for them. As Red became older and had less direct involvement, bad mistakes were made (Rick Pitino) that damaged our long-time culture.

Garnett brought Celtic Pride back and then some, and as much as Danny helped  create that era, he ruined it by trading Perk. Danny's done well with the rebuild, but never had Red's genius for cultivating togetherness and loyalty. Far from it. So, here we are in 2020 and the Celtics future looks bright. Can Danny bring in a few more key pieces to make this a championship group and soften his reputation for being a cold-blooded manager ? Can he add to the Celtics long held traditions and values in a complex league ? As a fan since 1969, when I fell in love with the underdog "Old Champions," I hope and pray that the answer will be Yes.

Final Thought: James Harden is the Anti-Celtic.

That's great.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but it's 2020 and today's players DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT!

As far as they're concerned, we're the timberwolves.

Today's players want to play where it's warm or where the superstars are... And the superstars want to play where it's warm.

The league is a farm team for the lakers and now the clippers. That is reality.

Pretty much the way it is .   NBA did not help themselves in terms of distribution of stars across the countryor the other teams by putting the clippers in LA .   Now clippers is a landing spot for unlucky stars who did not get to play for Lakers ....waiting booth for a position  to open up on the Lakers roster .  No matter how awful the mgmt or situation is ,  the nba stars want to pile in there to one spot.

Huh? Because there are 4 good players in LA that's the only place stars want to go?

Giannis resigned with the Bucks
Tatum resigned with the Celtics
Gobert+Mitchell resigned with the Jazz
Paul went to the Suns
Murray resigned with the Nuggets
Embid and Simmons resigned with the 76ers.

I know Celtics fans like to hate on LA, but I just don't see the trove of stars running to LA like some posters are suggesting.

There are a limited number of $40M slots available in LA. If those teams could offer 10 slots, there would be 10 stars there. We see LA teams have 3 of the top 5 players in the league, all of whom worked moves to get there. Paul George has been a disappointment, but at the time of acquisition looked like a top 10 guy.

It is not historically normal for great teams to be led by a superstar from somewhere else, except in LA.

[jambr380]

In order to construct realistic possibilities, you need to stay within a reasonable framework of what the NBA would allow and what value our assets really have.  First, our TPEs are not really in play for Harden.  He does not fit within any of them and since they cannot be combined, they are not going to help get Harden other than maybe in the off season.

With no TPE in play, outgoing salaries need to be roughly equal to Harden.  Harden is $41.2M.  To get there, you either need to include Kemba ($34.3M) or BOTH Brown ($22.7M) and Smart ($12.9M), and still throw in Langford or someone like that in either case.

Kemba is currently hurt and just underwent an experimental treatment on his knee.  It is going to be very hard to include Kemba in this either directly to Houston or via a third team.  Healthy, it is a different story but right now, I don't see it.  I have not seen any realistic 3rd team option where Kemba gets back some young players that Houston would like (or where Houston wouldn't just trade Harden directly to the 3rd team).

That leaves a trade starting with Brown AND Smart.  That is probably something that Houston would at least consider, it is fair from their perspective, but someone can beat this or Houston may decide it is just not worth it and wait.  But if you think we are going to get Harden, I hope you are thinking Brown and Smart.

For me, I would love the team if we got Harden for Kemba and could keep Smart, Brown, Tatum but I don't see how that happens.  I am not so keen on a team with Kemba, Harden, and Tatum.

Fwiw - Brown, Theis, Langford, and Edwards works in the trade machine. If you are really keen on keeping Smart, it is possible, but you lose one of your main bigs and a cost-controlled asset in Langford. We'd have kind of a funky line-up in terms of size with:  Kemba, Harden, Smart, Tatum, Thompson, but that is easily a Title contender.

Funny enough, I think you could sneak in just under the tax if you acquire Tucker with the TPE in a separate deal, but there is the whole business of filling those other two roster spots so that probably puts you over.

[JohnBoy65]

Hmm....this thing has some legs, then.

Regardless how we all feel about Harden dude is BONAFIDE.

One of the greatest scorers of all time. You can't make anymore jokes about his defense, either - he's gotten better in that area, too.

Add in the fact that at his age he is HUNGRY.

Whatever mistakes he's made in the past I'd bet he's focused on WINNING, now.

Coming to BOS would probably be his LAST chance.

"IF" he gets here he'd be ok.

Talent like that...all you do is unpackage him, turn him loose and enjoy the show.

If your coach can't handle nba players and you're in the nba then you need a new coach.

And what culture? What is this mythical culture that celtics fans have created in their minds?

Because this same mythical culture would have never brought us KG if we hung onto this intangible concept that only exists in this fictitious reality.

Huh? That last statement is non-sensical.

The Celtics have from the 60's thru the 80's and then during Garnet's era definitely had a unique culture - different from the rest of the NBA. Go back and read quotes from Jerry West about Russell's Celtic teams. Look at the 70's group led by Cowens and Havlicek and JoJo. Paul Silas talked about his disbelief of any 'Celtic Pride' until he got here and realized there was something special about the franchise and he said so. Charlie Scott, the same. The 80's speak for themselves. The Garnett teams had a togetherness unlike any in the modern NBA. All those players still talk about their time here, the unity they shared and have stayed in touch, as a group, since then. The one unifying factor in the first three title eras was Red Auerbach. What other franchise had the same man in charge of the team for 5+ decades and built multiple & separate title teams ?

So Yes, I would say the Celtics have had a long history of winning created by sacrifice, togetherness, selflessness, courage, intensity, pride and loyalty. We have more pure tradition than any other franchise. I will grant you that there have been some shaky years since the Len Bias and Reggie Lewis tragedies, which robbed the Celtics of the future Red had brilliantly created for them. As Red became older and had less direct involvement, bad mistakes were made (Rick Pitino) that damaged our long-time culture.

Garnett brought Celtic Pride back and then some, and as much as Danny helped  create that era, he ruined it by trading Perk. Danny's done well with the rebuild, but never had Red's genius for cultivating togetherness and loyalty. Far from it. So, here we are in 2020 and the Celtics future looks bright. Can Danny bring in a few more key pieces to make this a championship group and soften his reputation for being a cold-blooded manager ? Can he add to the Celtics long held traditions and values in a complex league ? As a fan since 1969, when I fell in love with the underdog "Old Champions," I hope and pray that the answer will be Yes.

Final Thought: James Harden is the Anti-Celtic.

That's great.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but it's 2020 and today's players DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT!

As far as they're concerned, we're the timberwolves.

Today's players want to play where it's warm or where the superstars are... And the superstars want to play where it's warm.

The league is a farm team for the lakers and now the clippers. That is reality.

Pretty much the way it is .   NBA did not help themselves in terms of distribution of stars across the countryor the other teams by putting the clippers in LA .   Now clippers is a landing spot for unlucky stars who did not get to play for Lakers ....waiting booth for a position  to open up on the Lakers roster .  No matter how awful the mgmt or situation is ,  the nba stars want to pile in there to one spot.

Huh? Because there are 4 good players in LA that's the only place stars want to go?

Giannis resigned with the Bucks
Tatum resigned with the Celtics
Gobert+Mitchell resigned with the Jazz
Paul went to the Suns
Murray resigned with the Nuggets
Embid and Simmons resigned with the 76ers.

I know Celtics fans like to hate on LA, but I just don't see the trove of stars running to LA like some posters are suggesting.

There are a limited number of $40M slots available in LA. If those teams could offer 10 slots, there would be 10 stars there. We see LA teams have 3 of the top 5 players in the league, all of whom worked moves to get there. Paul George has been a disappointment, but at the time of acquisition looked like a top 10 guy.

It is not historically normal for great teams to be led by a superstar from somewhere else, except in LA.

I disagree. Just in the last 20 years.

KG and Ray Allen in Boston
Bron and Bosh in Miami
KD in GSW
'11 Mavs though Dirk was the constant lots of pieces brought from the outside.
Raptors with Kawhi
'06 Shaq in Miami
'04 Pistons with Billups and R. Wallace.

All of those above are championships that were impacted by trades or FA signings.

[Phantom255x]

Imagine if the Raptors get Harden though and win it all again. How would that look if they went hard after Kawhi and Harden while the C's didn't and won championships in both instances 

[Tr1boy]

Smells like smokescreen once again

Ainge trying to drive up price so that 76ers don't luck out with Harden by trading Harris and not having to include Simmons or Embiid

Sample of trade between 76ers and Rockets

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yc6m747u

Harris, Maxey and other rookies +  4 1sts or 3 1sts and 2 swaps


In order to prevent this from happening, Celtics could be sending signals...team could part ways with Brown.   Which gives Rockets some leverage vs 76ers.   Threaten to trade Harden to the Celtics instead.... unless Simmons is included

[blink]

Smells like smokescreen once again

Ainge trying to drive up price so that 76ers don't luck out with Harden by trading Harris and not having to include Simmons or Embiid

Sample of trade between 76ers and Rockets

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yc6m747u

Harris, Maxey and other rookies +  4 1sts or 3 1sts and 2 swaps


In order to prevent this from happening, Celtics could be sending signals...team could part ways with Brown.   Which gives Rockets some leverage vs 76ers.   Threaten to trade Harden to the Celtics instead.... unless Simmons is included

I am not sure this makes any sense.  So Houston and DA collude to make Philly think we are trading Brown and Smart so 76ers are forced to include Simmons?  Lol...I wouldn't put it past DA to say he has interest when he really doesn't but eventually the cards have to come onto the table.

[colincb]

Smells like smokescreen once again

Ainge trying to drive up price so that 76ers don't luck out with Harden by trading Harris and not having to include Simmons or Embiid

Sample of trade between 76ers and Rockets

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yc6m747u

Harris, Maxey and other rookies +  4 1sts or 3 1sts and 2 swaps


In order to prevent this from happening, Celtics could be sending signals...team could part ways with Brown.   Which gives Rockets some leverage vs 76ers.   Threaten to trade Harden to the Celtics instead.... unless Simmons is included

Granato's source, if there is one, is very unlikely to be BOS. He's been connected to HOU for a long time.

Second, I don't think Danny or anyone else has to worry about HOU settling for Joe Harris.