Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade

[Ogaju]

Nice! I love going to the bankers life arena on Friday nights... also doing immature things at the bars after a pacers game lol.
I think Danny messed up this time by over estimating his leverage and underestimating Charlotte. I believe he would have run with the turner plus a Filler plus a first rounder if he even had a slight suspicion what Jordan is capable of offering to Hayward ...
Anyway the lengths to which half the people on here go to defend Danny and trash turner and Indy reminds me of QAnon supporters and Trump... it’s like a cult.

Calling people QAnon Trump supporters because they are still supporting Ainge after we might have lost out on a deal that was only marginally better seems like a waste of that insult.

lol that is really funny, TP!

[Ogaju]

Danny drinks GM tears.

WHY WHY WHY WHY does this forum love overpriced, overrated bigs so much? Shall we list the big love affairs we've had over the years and laugh at ourselves?

Dude, the Cs have not had a serviceable BIG since Perl/Shaq/KG. You are not winning a championship without servicable BIGS. Thompson was abig part of the Cs not getting by Cavs in the ECF 2018.

[Ogaju]

Why does it seem so hard for Ainge to deal?  Lots of other gms make good deals frequently.  Honestly Im not sure Ainge changing roles or moving out of the dealing wouldn’t be better for our chances.

Danny literally just made two trades (Kanter, Poirier) to different teams, signed two free agents, signed his own most important free agent to a max deal and is currently negotiating with another team on another deal.

I suspect what you really are asking is why does it seem that Ainge doesn't make the deals that you think he should make.

Let’s see:
Traded Kanter for nothing because he gave him a second year option...C+
 had to pay OKC to take Poirier because he messed up by signing him ... he could have just waived him if we are under the cap... D

Traded a first rounder for 2 very unknown second rounders - C-

Signed Thompson to an ok deal because Turner was no longer available... B -
signed Teague to A small deal ... he helped Hawks tank last year - C-
Drafts nesmith - B (let’s wait and see if he can get open and comfortable enough in the fast pace nba game before proclaim him the next ray allen)
Drafts Pritchard - C + (unlike a lot of people it is not obvious to me yet that he can pass and run an offense in the nba)
Drafts a stash foreign guy who may never come here or have an impact - C-
Finally gave out a super max deal to a young player ( probably was scared he would offend Tatum if he negotiated with him but 5th year is an option) - B-
I would say these 9 moves so far add up to a C +... combine this with the leaked Indy stories and kembas knees and Danny is having a C- leaning towards D+ off-season so far

Do you grade more liberally before or after your morning coffee? lol

[Ogaju]

Signing Thompson over taking on Turner    B   (3.0 gpa)
Signing Jeff Teague at BEE or less              B+ (3.3)
Not Signing Hayward to $30M                    B-  (2.7)
Poirier and Kanter TPEs                             B   (3.0)
Draft Nesmith                                          A    (4.0)
Draft Pritchard                                         B-   (2.7)
Trade Pick 30                                           C    (2.0)
Extend Tatum                                          A    (4.0)

Overall, 3.1 GPA for Danny for the off season.  If we get the TPE out of the Hayward deal, without giving up more than a 2nd round pick, I would give that a B as well.  It could go higher depending on who we get with the TPE.

Danny did not hit a home run here.  Not suggesting that.  But he did fine.  We are incrementally better with hopefully some flexibility with all the TPEs to add more along the way.

Specifically to the potential Indy deal, I would have been happy to get Turner but felt that McDermott was just wasted cap space.  I would have held out for Oladipo or something even if it meant sending Langford back.  As soon as we signed Thompson, a player who will likely give us more of what we need most than Turner at less money, I stopped worrying about not getting Turner and became glad we didn't do that deal.

Now of course once I have said that, watch Turner have a career year and Thompson forget how to shoot free throws.

The bolded part may not be a bad thiing considering the way Thompson shoots free throws.

[Roy H.]

Not Signing Hayward to $30M                    B-  (2.7)

I’d give this one an A+.

[Darth_Yoda]

Was just thinking something.

one of the reasons danny might have been playing hardball was because he really did want hayward back.

We knew at the time the Indy and boston both offered the exact same contract and that Atlanta was already spending their money and NYK was completely unattractive.

So Danny playing hard ball increased the chances of Hayward returning as the only way to indy was by trade. Then MJ went nuts with his offer.

[moiso]

Was just thinking something.

one of the reasons danny might have been playing hardball was because he really did want hayward back.

We knew at the time the Indy and boston both offered the exact same contract and that Atlanta was already spending their money and NYK was completely unattractive.

So Danny playing hard ball increased the chances of Hayward returning as the only way to indy was by trade. Then MJ went nuts with his offer.

I think Ainge did want Hayward back at a more reasonable price.

[Kernewek]

Danny drinks GM tears.

WHY WHY WHY WHY does this forum love overpriced, overrated bigs so much? Shall we list the big love affairs we've had over the years and laugh at ourselves?

Dude, the Cs have not had a serviceable BIG since Perl/Shaq/KG. You are not winning a championship without servicable BIGS. Thompson was abig part of the Cs not getting by Cavs in the ECF 2018.

As detailed earlier, a serviceable big of today is not the serviceable big of yesterday.

[liam]

Was just thinking something.

one of the reasons danny might have been playing hardball was because he really did want hayward back.

We knew at the time the Indy and boston both offered the exact same contract and that Atlanta was already spending their money and NYK was completely unattractive.

So Danny playing hard ball increased the chances of Hayward returning as the only way to indy was by trade. Then MJ went nuts with his offer.

I’m not sure why Charlotte is mor attractive than New York. I guess it’s James Dolan?

[keevsnick]

Look you can parse it however you want, but the Celtics are almost certainly worse than they were last season, and no better than they were last postseason.

I think they’re better than they were last postseason.

I mean putting aside internal improvement or health improvement the only real move they've made over last off season that we know will matter is swapping out Kanter/R Will/G Will minutes at the backup five with Thompson. That's an upgrade but like not by some HUGE amount given all of those guys showed flashes at various points. We actually got relatively good minutes at the back up 5.

The only other moves have question marks. How much juice does Teague have left and will he hold up defensively there? Will the rookies give you anything? Could the Pricthard pick in particular have been better used?

So ya I'd say roster wise vs the playoffs they are probably A LITTLE better, of course without Hayward in the regular season you're probably like a 3 through 5 seed so you have to fight through road series in at least rounds 2/3, unlike the bubble.
 

[footey]

This from Zach Lowe/ESPN Insider:

"I'm not sure what precisely went haywire in the Boston-Indiana-Charlotte Hayward vortex. You couldn't be unless you were on Celtics-Pacers trade calls, and even some of those people might have lingering questions or divergent memories. Here's what I'm confident in:

• Boston misread Hayward's desire to leave, even for a rebuilding team. The Pacers played it right by waiting out Hayward's opt-in deadline, and forcing the Celtics to negotiate under threat of Hayward walking into Charlotte's cap space. Trade talks stalled. Boston offered something less than Charlotte. Hayward walked.

• Boston did not want Myles Turner enough to accept a Pacers package centered on him and whatever other players (and maybe picks) Indiana offered in conjunction. Perhaps Boston wanted Turner only if he came with one or two specific Pacers -- players Indiana apparently did not make available in that context. (Gary Washburn of The Boston Globe reported the nitty-gritty of the proposals.) Perhaps the Celtics thought they had more leverage to ask for the moon, confident Hayward would re-sign. Bottom line: If Boston really wanted Turner, he would probably be a Celtic.

Turner makes $18 million in each of the next three seasons. Thompson will make about $9.5 million in each of the next two. Turner is a polarizing player with murky trade value. The emergence of Domantas Sabonis marginalized Turner on offense. He can be tentative with the ball when the game is in motion. He can't post up switches, a huge problem the Heat exposed in the postseason.

But he jacked up his 3-point rate last season, and he's a fearsome deterrent at the rim on defense. He should keep improving. I'm curious to see what he does under Nate Bjorkgren, and remain curious about how Brad Stevens would have nudged Turner's game.

Time will tell how Boston's wager plays out. Internal development from Romeo Langford, Grant Williams, and other kiddos might soften the blow of Hayward's departure. Maybe Tatum has another jump. Why put limits on him? But Boston's 2020-21 ceiling is a little lower."

[NKY fan]

This from Zach Lowe/ESPN Insider:

"I'm not sure what precisely went haywire in the Boston-Indiana-Charlotte Hayward vortex. You couldn't be unless you were on Celtics-Pacers trade calls, and even some of those people might have lingering questions or divergent memories. Here's what I'm confident in:

• Boston misread Hayward's desire to leave, even for a rebuilding team. The Pacers played it right by waiting out Hayward's opt-in deadline, and forcing the Celtics to negotiate under threat of Hayward walking into Charlotte's cap space. Trade talks stalled. Boston offered something less than Charlotte. Hayward walked.

• Boston did not want Myles Turner enough to accept a Pacers package centered on him and whatever other players (and maybe picks) Indiana offered in conjunction. Perhaps Boston wanted Turner only if he came with one or two specific Pacers -- players Indiana apparently did not make available in that context. (Gary Washburn of The Boston Globe reported the nitty-gritty of the proposals.) Perhaps the Celtics thought they had more leverage to ask for the moon, confident Hayward would re-sign. Bottom line: If Boston really wanted Turner, he would probably be a Celtic.

Turner makes $18 million in each of the next three seasons. Thompson will make about $9.5 million in each of the next two. Turner is a polarizing player with murky trade value. The emergence of Domantas Sabonis marginalized Turner on offense. He can be tentative with the ball when the game is in motion. He can't post up switches, a huge problem the Heat exposed in the postseason.

But he jacked up his 3-point rate last season, and he's a fearsome deterrent at the rim on defense. He should keep improving. I'm curious to see what he does under Nate Bjorkgren, and remain curious about how Brad Stevens would have nudged Turner's game.

Time will tell how Boston's wager plays out. Internal development from Romeo Langford, Grant Williams, and other kiddos might soften the blow of Hayward's departure. Maybe Tatum has another jump. Why put limits on him? But Boston's 2020-21 ceiling is a little lower."

So Danny thought that if Hayward opted out he would be at the mercy of Boston to get him to his preferred destination while in reality Hayward opted out to give confidence to the hornets to up their offer
Then again this is Boston side of the story

[Tr1boy]

This from Zach Lowe/ESPN Insider:

"I'm not sure what precisely went haywire in the Boston-Indiana-Charlotte Hayward vortex. You couldn't be unless you were on Celtics-Pacers trade calls, and even some of those people might have lingering questions or divergent memories. Here's what I'm confident in:

• Boston misread Hayward's desire to leave, even for a rebuilding team. The Pacers played it right by waiting out Hayward's opt-in deadline, and forcing the Celtics to negotiate under threat of Hayward walking into Charlotte's cap space. Trade talks stalled. Boston offered something less than Charlotte. Hayward walked.

• Boston did not want Myles Turner enough to accept a Pacers package centered on him and whatever other players (and maybe picks) Indiana offered in conjunction. Perhaps Boston wanted Turner only if he came with one or two specific Pacers -- players Indiana apparently did not make available in that context. (Gary Washburn of The Boston Globe reported the nitty-gritty of the proposals.) Perhaps the Celtics thought they had more leverage to ask for the moon, confident Hayward would re-sign. Bottom line: If Boston really wanted Turner, he would probably be a Celtic.

Turner makes $18 million in each of the next three seasons. Thompson will make about $9.5 million in each of the next two. Turner is a polarizing player with murky trade value. The emergence of Domantas Sabonis marginalized Turner on offense. He can be tentative with the ball when the game is in motion. He can't post up switches, a huge problem the Heat exposed in the postseason.

But he jacked up his 3-point rate last season, and he's a fearsome deterrent at the rim on defense. He should keep improving. I'm curious to see what he does under Nate Bjorkgren, and remain curious about how Brad Stevens would have nudged Turner's game.

Time will tell how Boston's wager plays out. Internal development from Romeo Langford, Grant Williams, and other kiddos might soften the blow of Hayward's departure. Maybe Tatum has another jump. Why put limits on him? But Boston's 2020-21 ceiling is a little lower."

Thx

Turner sounds like the modern day Channing Frye

Glad Danny didnt give in

If Turner flipped for a TPE and a 1st(third team).  Danny gladly does the trade

[Vermont Green]

Not Signing Hayward to $30M                    B-  (2.7)

I’d give this one an A+.

I understand your point.  I was thinking it is hard to give someone an A+ when they essentially lost the player for nothing (at least so far).  He was right to not try to match or beat that offer or accept a trade with bad contracts coming back.  So I gave him a kind of neutral grade overall.  Now for Charlotte, I would give them a C- or even a D for overpaying for a player that has had major durability issues for several seasons.  My B- for the Celtics is kind of the inverse of the grade for Charlotte.

[BringToughnessBack]

Looking forward to seeing  Turner light up opponents this coming year  ...since he was so amazing that most GM’s want nothing to do with him including the Pacers.

Thank God for Danny