Author Topic: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade  (Read 21505 times)

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Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2020, 06:46:10 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Sour grapes. Thankfully, Danny Ainge knows that "fair" has nothing to do with trades. You make the best move for your team, and anything less is not worth doing.

Signing TT and Teague was MORE desirable than trading for Myles Turner at $18M / year, and on top of that, it's apparent that other teams didn't want to give up much to flip Turner.

Indiana is mad about the reality that they couldn't trade their bench player signed to a large contract, for a guy getting $100M+ on the open market? That they might have had to add *1 year* of Oladipo to get it done? Meh. Life ain't fair.

I think this sums it up pretty well. Doug McDermott and Myles Turner are not the kind of moves you make if you want to make significant improvements to a roster.
"...unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it."

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2020, 06:47:15 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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This is just pritchard teying to save face.

No one wants turner, indy wants him gone, no one wants mcdermott.

Sorry, better off with full mle, not paying tax and not having turner and mcdernott.

If anything I wager that Pritchard is wishing he upped the offer.

Enjoy your 7th seed 1st round exit team KP!

Maybe you can talk to the haywards and get them to renig on their verbal agreement with charlotte.
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2020, 06:48:50 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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Why does it seem so hard for Ainge to deal?  Lots of other gms make good deals frequently.  Honestly Im not sure Ainge changing roles or moving out of the dealing wouldn’t be better for our chances.

Danny literally just made two trades (Kanter, Poirier) to different teams, signed two free agents, signed his own most important free agent to a max deal and is currently negotiating with another team on another deal.

I suspect what you really are asking is why does it seem that Ainge doesn't make the deals that you think he should make.
Let’s see:
Traded Kanter for nothing because he gave him a second year option...C+
 had to pay OKC to take Poirier because he messed up by signing him ... he could have just waived him if we are under the cap... D

Traded a first rounder for 2 very unknown second rounders - C-

Signed Thompson to an ok deal because Turner was no longer available... B -
signed Teague to A small deal ... he helped Hawks tank last year - C-
Drafts nesmith - B (let’s wait and see if he can get open and comfortable enough in the fast pace nba game before proclaim him the next ray allen)
Drafts Pritchard - C + (unlike a lot of people it is not obvious to me yet that he can pass and run an offense in the nba)
Drafts a stash foreign guy who may never come here or have an impact - C-
Finally gave out a super max deal to a young player ( probably was scared he would offend Tatum if he negotiated with him but 5th year is an option) - B-
I would say these 9 moves so far add up to a C +... combine this with the leaked Indy stories and kembas knees and Danny is having a C- leaning towards D+ off-season so far
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 06:55:58 AM by NKY fan »

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2020, 07:09:21 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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This is just pritchard teying to save face.

No one wants turner, indy wants him gone, no one wants mcdermott.

Sorry, better off with full mle, not paying tax and not having turner and mcdernott.

If anything I wager that Pritchard is wishing he upped the offer.

Enjoy your 7th seed 1st round exit team KP!

Maybe you can talk to the haywards and get them to renig on their verbal agreement with charlotte.
Pritchard is not saving face .. he’s legit p---ed at Danny for his delusional demands and neutral fans would agree...
I agree it’s not very professional to make these public .. however Danny did basically the same thing to Charlotte when he was trying to trade up to draft Winslow and Hornets took Kaminsky refusing his 4 protected draft picks offer...
He was trying to make fun (publicly) of the hornets for drafting Kaminsky ( instead of Winslow) and not taking his offer

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2020, 07:20:11 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Ah, of course, the delusional demands of good basketball players for your basketball team.
"...unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it."

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #80 on: November 26, 2020, 07:38:41 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Ah, of course, the delusional demands of good basketball players for your basketball team.
Don't get crazy now!
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #81 on: November 26, 2020, 08:04:21 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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Why does it seem so hard for Ainge to deal?  Lots of other gms make good deals frequently.  Honestly Im not sure Ainge changing roles or moving out of the dealing wouldn’t be better for our chances.

Danny literally just made two trades (Kanter, Poirier) to different teams, signed two free agents, signed his own most important free agent to a max deal and is currently negotiating with another team on another deal.

I suspect what you really are asking is why does it seem that Ainge doesn't make the deals that you think he should make.
Let’s see:
Traded Kanter for nothing because he gave him a second year option...C+
 had to pay OKC to take Poirier because he messed up by signing him ... he could have just waived him if we are under the cap... D

Traded a first rounder for 2 very unknown second rounders - C-

Signed Thompson to an ok deal because Turner was no longer available... B -
signed Teague to A small deal ... he helped Hawks tank last year - C-
Drafts nesmith - B (let’s wait and see if he can get open and comfortable enough in the fast pace nba game before proclaim him the next ray allen)
Drafts Pritchard - C + (unlike a lot of people it is not obvious to me yet that he can pass and run an offense in the nba)
Drafts a stash foreign guy who may never come here or have an impact - C-
Finally gave out a super max deal to a young player ( probably was scared he would offend Tatum if he negotiated with him but 5th year is an option) - B-
I would say these 9 moves so far add up to a C +... combine this with the leaked Indy stories and kembas knees and Danny is having a C- leaning towards D+ off-season so far

Step back from the cliff.

We added Thompson and Teague and Nesmith and PP to last years ECF team minus Kanter and Wannamaker.
We are better.
And the offseason still is not done.

'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #82 on: November 26, 2020, 08:15:45 AM »

Offline jambr380

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If the Cs were going to go into the tax, it sure as heck wasn't going to be for Turner and McDermott. That's why Danny wanted more in return.

If this TPE goes through with CHA, I am more than happy with the decision. Hayward gets more money, we get better, cheaper assets, and Indy gets...nothing.

Sometimes people regret the decisions they made in the heat of the moment. It's pretty clear Pritchard is feeling the aftermath of not trading for Gordon Hayward.
We wouldn’t be in the tax after Kanter and Poirier were moved. Also why so many on here assume we are better with Thompson and Teague minus a second rounder versus Turner and Mac dermott ?
It’s debatable but it’s not obvious which option makes our team better

The tax would have been awfully close. It is $25M between those two players. I agree that Danny would have done everything he could to stay under if we were that close, but that means no FAs would have been signed - especially not with the Taxpayer MLE.

As for the actual deal, I just think it allows us a lot more flexibility moving forward. We are basically talking Turner at $25M (no way did Danny want McDermott and he really wouldn't play on this team). I understand things change a bit if we were to get a 1st or if we were able to get Holiday instead of McDermott, but I think we just need to see how things play out w/ the TPE. We may even take a 'bad' contract into our TPE and still get a 1st, or acquire a player that is easily worth a 1st.

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #83 on: November 26, 2020, 08:53:39 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Let’s fix this.

Why does it seem so hard for Ainge to deal?  Lots of other gms make good deals frequently.  Honestly Im not sure Ainge changing roles or moving out of the dealing wouldn’t be better for our chances.

Danny literally just made two trades (Kanter, Poirier) to different teams, signed two free agents, signed his own most important free agent to a max deal and is currently negotiating with another team on another deal.

I suspect what you really are asking is why does it seem that Ainge doesn't make the deals that you think he should make.
Let’s see:
Traded Kanter for nothing because he gave him a second year option...C+ Got a 5 million dollar trade exception we can use on a player at the deadline to boost our bench B+
 had to pay OKC to take Poirier because he messed up by signing him ... he could have just waived him if we are under the cap... D Waive him and eat the money, or trade him for a trade exception for 2.6 mil that we can use at the deadline to strengthen our bench A

Traded a first rounder for 2 very unknown second rounders - C- Didn’t like this one either. D

Signed Thompson to an ok deal because Turner was no longer available... B - Solid A+ here for me
signed Teague to A small deal ... he helped Hawks tank last year - C-I hate Jeff Teague but a one year minimum for a back up PG who was a former 15-16 points a night guy just a few years ago A+
Drafts nesmith - B (let’s wait and see if he can get open and comfortable enough in the fast pace nba game before proclaim him the next ray allen) I don’t know what his floor or ceiling might be but this was a solid pick at this point in the draft. A
Drafts Pritchard - C + (unlike a lot of people it is not obvious to me yet that he can pass and run an offense in the nba)I’ve come around to liking his spirit but didn’t like the pick D
Drafts a stash foreign guy who may never come here or have an impact - C- In the second round of a full roster what else do you want? B
Finally gave out a super max deal to a young player ( probably was scared he would offend Tatum if he negotiated with him but 5th year is an option) - B- No brainer A+ on this one
I would say these 9 moves so far add up to a C +... combine this with the leaked Indy stories and kembas knees and Danny is having a C- leaning towards D+ off-season so far

You also forgot- Not paying Gordon Hayward 30 million dollars a year. A+

Based on all these moves adding them up: 4-A+s, 2 As, 1 B+, 1 B, 2 Ds, it’s a solid A off-season so far. Get another trade exception from Char and it’s an A+ off-season.

Now if Danny doesn’t use those TPEs, then we go down to the C range.

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #84 on: November 26, 2020, 09:29:20 AM »

Offline tstorey_97

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It was "known" throughout the league agents and execs that Michael Jordan wanted Hayward. Everybody knows everyone else's cap situation to the penny as that is what they are paid to know.

As is true with any "deal" principals-agents-GM's did what they could to set up a "market" for the asset.

Pritchard "played" Hayward's interest in returning to Indianapolis when negotiating with greedy/heartless/incompetent Ainge.

Pritchard's problem was he couldn't pay Hayward enough to get the deal done.

The decision was made by Hayward and his agent, not by Ainge or Pritchard.

Evidently the additional contract money was enough to get Hayward to play for the Hornets.

I don't know about the rest of the posters here, but...the Hornets?
Current cbssports NBA power rankings as of 11/23 (post trade)...

Celtics #4
Pacers #14
Hornets #23

Anthony Davis "could have signed with the Celtics", but he didn't. Whose "fault" was that?

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #85 on: November 26, 2020, 09:51:54 AM »

Offline Wretch

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Let’s fix this.

Why does it seem so hard for Ainge to deal?  Lots of other gms make good deals frequently.  Honestly Im not sure Ainge changing roles or moving out of the dealing wouldn’t be better for our chances.

Danny literally just made two trades (Kanter, Poirier) to different teams, signed two free agents, signed his own most important free agent to a max deal and is currently negotiating with another team on another deal.

I suspect what you really are asking is why does it seem that Ainge doesn't make the deals that you think he should make.
Let’s see:
Traded Kanter for nothing because he gave him a second year option...C+ Got a 5 million dollar trade exception we can use on a player at the deadline to boost our bench B+
 had to pay OKC to take Poirier because he messed up by signing him ... he could have just waived him if we are under the cap... D Waive him and eat the money, or trade him for a trade exception for 2.6 mil that we can use at the deadline to strengthen our bench A

Traded a first rounder for 2 very unknown second rounders - C- Didn’t like this one either. D

Signed Thompson to an ok deal because Turner was no longer available... B - Solid A+ here for me
signed Teague to A small deal ... he helped Hawks tank last year - C-I hate Jeff Teague but a one year minimum for a back up PG who was a former 15-16 points a night guy just a few years ago A+
Drafts nesmith - B (let’s wait and see if he can get open and comfortable enough in the fast pace nba game before proclaim him the next ray allen) I don’t know what his floor or ceiling might be but this was a solid pick at this point in the draft. A
Drafts Pritchard - C + (unlike a lot of people it is not obvious to me yet that he can pass and run an offense in the nba)I’ve come around to liking his spirit but didn’t like the pick D
Drafts a stash foreign guy who may never come here or have an impact - C- In the second round of a full roster what else do you want? B
Finally gave out a super max deal to a young player ( probably was scared he would offend Tatum if he negotiated with him but 5th year is an option) - B- No brainer A+ on this one
I would say these 9 moves so far add up to a C +... combine this with the leaked Indy stories and kembas knees and Danny is having a C- leaning towards D+ off-season so far

You also forgot- Not paying Gordon Hayward 30 million dollars a year. A+

Based on all these moves adding them up: 4-A+s, 2 As, 1 B+, 1 B, 2 Ds, it’s a solid A off-season so far. Get another trade exception from Char and it’s an A+ off-season.

Now if Danny doesn’t use those TPEs, then we go down to the C range.
I think the trade of the 30th pick for future seconds was better than people think. Late first round picks are considered by many to be less valuable than early seconds because of the rookie scale and guaranteed contracts. Also the Celtics had a roster crunch hence the 2nd round draft and stash. DA salvaged value for a pick that either would have been a draft and stash or a guaranteed contract for player that would have struggled to make the roster let alone get playing time to develop.

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #86 on: November 26, 2020, 10:43:51 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Let’s fix this.

Why does it seem so hard for Ainge to deal?  Lots of other gms make good deals frequently.  Honestly Im not sure Ainge changing roles or moving out of the dealing wouldn’t be better for our chances.

Danny literally just made two trades (Kanter, Poirier) to different teams, signed two free agents, signed his own most important free agent to a max deal and is currently negotiating with another team on another deal.

I suspect what you really are asking is why does it seem that Ainge doesn't make the deals that you think he should make.
Let’s see:
Traded Kanter for nothing because he gave him a second year option...C+ Got a 5 million dollar trade exception we can use on a player at the deadline to boost our bench B+
 had to pay OKC to take Poirier because he messed up by signing him ... he could have just waived him if we are under the cap... D Waive him and eat the money, or trade him for a trade exception for 2.6 mil that we can use at the deadline to strengthen our bench A

Traded a first rounder for 2 very unknown second rounders - C- Didn’t like this one either. D

Signed Thompson to an ok deal because Turner was no longer available... B - Solid A+ here for me
signed Teague to A small deal ... he helped Hawks tank last year - C-I hate Jeff Teague but a one year minimum for a back up PG who was a former 15-16 points a night guy just a few years ago A+
Drafts nesmith - B (let’s wait and see if he can get open and comfortable enough in the fast pace nba game before proclaim him the next ray allen) I don’t know what his floor or ceiling might be but this was a solid pick at this point in the draft. A
Drafts Pritchard - C + (unlike a lot of people it is not obvious to me yet that he can pass and run an offense in the nba)I’ve come around to liking his spirit but didn’t like the pick D
Drafts a stash foreign guy who may never come here or have an impact - C- In the second round of a full roster what else do you want? B
Finally gave out a super max deal to a young player ( probably was scared he would offend Tatum if he negotiated with him but 5th year is an option) - B- No brainer A+ on this one
I would say these 9 moves so far add up to a C +... combine this with the leaked Indy stories and kembas knees and Danny is having a C- leaning towards D+ off-season so far

You also forgot- Not paying Gordon Hayward 30 million dollars a year. A+

Based on all these moves adding them up: 4-A+s, 2 As, 1 B+, 1 B, 2 Ds, it’s a solid A off-season so far. Get another trade exception from Char and it’s an A+ off-season.

Now if Danny doesn’t use those TPEs, then we go down to the C range.
I think the trade of the 30th pick for future seconds was better than people think. Late first round picks are considered by many to be less valuable than early seconds because of the rookie scale and guaranteed contracts. Also the Celtics had a roster crunch hence the 2nd round draft and stash. DA salvaged value for a pick that either would have been a draft and stash or a guaranteed contract for player that would have struggled to make the roster let alone get playing time to develop.

I think what all those grades tell you is the grading system is way off, not that this was some A offseason.

Look you can parse it however you want, but the Celtics are almost certainly worse than they were last season, and no better than they were last postseason.

TT is better than Kanter, but we're talking about 24 minutes of backup center play and Kanter was actually pretty good most of last year. It also takes minutes from RWIII, which I hate and hurts our teams chancing of developing a valuable trade chip. Even on the MLE he might still be overpaid. It helps, but probably not as much as most people think. The money would have been FAR better spent on a wing player.

Its not clear to me Teague is better than Wanamaker overall, its really not. He gives you more juice offensively but will be targeted defensively.

You lost hayward an that REALLY hurts, right now our two back up wings are Nesmith an Langford who both show promise for various reasons but are huge question marks. We saw how bad the bench was last year, it really isnt any better now. The best we are gonna get for Hayward is a TPE, which is useful but we'll still have to give up assets in trade to use it.

The two second round picks either A) Project not to be great or B) Are way in the future. 2n rounders beginning of the round are nice, but these ones are meh at best.

The offseason wasn't a complete disaster. I've warmed to nesmith, TT is fine, Tatum signed. But the team is also probably worse and has less assets than at the start.

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #87 on: November 26, 2020, 10:48:15 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Signing Thompson over taking on Turner    B   (3.0 gpa)
Signing Jeff Teague at BEE or less              B+ (3.3)
Not Signing Hayward to $30M                    B-  (2.7)
Poirier and Kanter TPEs                             B   (3.0)
Draft Nesmith                                          A    (4.0)
Draft Pritchard                                         B-   (2.7)
Trade Pick 30                                           C    (2.0)
Extend Tatum                                          A    (4.0)

Overall, 3.1 GPA for Danny for the off season.  If we get the TPE out of the Hayward deal, without giving up more than a 2nd round pick, I would give that a B as well.  It could go higher depending on who we get with the TPE.

Danny did not hit a home run here.  Not suggesting that.  But he did fine.  We are incrementally better with hopefully some flexibility with all the TPEs to add more along the way.

Specifically to the potential Indy deal, I would have been happy to get Turner but felt that McDermott was just wasted cap space.  I would have held out for Oladipo or something even if it meant sending Langford back.  As soon as we signed Thompson, a player who will likely give us more of what we need most than Turner at less money, I stopped worrying about not getting Turner and became glad we didn't do that deal.

Now of course once I have said that, watch Turner have a career year and Thompson forget how to shoot free throws.

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #88 on: November 26, 2020, 10:50:13 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
Look you can parse it however you want, but the Celtics are almost certainly worse than they were last season, and no better than they were last postseason.

I think they’re better than they were last postseason.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Pacers GM throw shade at Ainge after failed trade
« Reply #89 on: November 26, 2020, 10:55:31 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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Danny drinks GM tears.

WHY WHY WHY WHY does this forum love overpriced, overrated bigs so much? Shall we list the big love affairs we've had over the years and laugh at ourselves?
ok fine