Hayward sign-and-trade completed

[knuckleballer]

Even with Tristan we need Theis.

I don’t get the idea of trading Theis for the TPE.  He’s a goood, useful and needed player.  It won’t cost Charlotte anything to do this so why should we have to give up a player like Theis or a first round pick.  One or two second rounders should be enough.  We might not even get the chance to use the TPE.  They usually expire.

[Sketch5]

Even with Tristan we need Theis.

I don’t get the idea of trading Theis for the TPE.  He’s a goood, useful and needed player.  It won’t cost Charlotte anything to do this so why should we have to give up a player like Theis or a first round pick.  One or two second rounders should be enough.  We might not even get the chance to use the TPE.  They usually expire.

It might be to increase the TPE amount to bring in a player later, but I agree not to send Theis out unless you know you can replace him.

[nickagneta]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'm pretty sure you can't combine the player salaries like that; you could get 2 separate TPEs (one the size of Hayward's, and another the size of Theis').

Not that that matters, because if Ainge trade Theis to get a TPE, that would be a disaster (unless he already had a trade for someone like Beal already lined up that needed the TPE)

Ya I wasn't sure about that, in any event  that's not actually the primary motivation. Its more about using Theis as a value contract to incentive CHA to do a sign and trade with us. The general idea is that CHA would prefer to upgrade Zeller to Theis while also not having to stretch Batum and thus would be willing take Hayward via s&t to do it. If you can do it without having to give up Theis that's obviously preferable.

Its also about getting R Williams minutes.

That's like giving your neighbor your new TV just to keep an eye on your house while you're gone for the weekend. You don't need to give valuable assets for it, just toss them a six pack or $20 (or a 2nd rounder/cash). If they demand the TV, just walk away because it isn't worth it

I don't think Theis is a TV. He's a toast or blender, a really nice one but still. And a 30 million TPE isn't watching your house for a weekend, it could be anything from absolutely nothing to a new Car.

Tristan Thompson is arguably as good or close. That means Theis at 5 million has about 4-5 million dollars in surplus value for one season at a position where you can routinely find guys for the minimum (like Dwight Howard last year) to be very good backups. Robert Williams might already be that or better.

If its an option between a 30 million dollar TPE, or Daniel Theis for 1 year, i'd take the TPE. I know that's hard to fathom for people, but the TPE may be your last chance to be able to absorb a player (like say Beal) without having to give up Brown. Alternatively it could be used for a player like Heild, Aaron Gordon, ect without having to sacrifice Smart. Its an upside play for sure, and risky because there's a  chance an opportunity never develops. But you have to roll the dice sometimes and I don't think 1 year of Theis is that much to gamble.

As I've said, I'd try everything else first. But if forced I'd include Theis.

I think we'd all be on the same page to avoid giving up Theis if not necessary.  A couple of 2nds may do the trick -- it's no skin off MJs nose to do an S&T vs. not. 

Where you are playing chess (as I play checkers) is about getting a player on the Beal, Hield or A.Gordon level with the TPE.   What are the current circumstances that would lead Wiz, Magic or Sac to see a TPE trade with Boston  as the team's best deal?  Would seem to me that many teams could/would offer a better deal than that.

In reality, your best opportunity in a situation like this is when a team is over the tax and wants to get back under. That way, what you have to offer (no salary back in a trade) is actually a bonus over other offers. Of course we could throw in additional rookie-contract assets and picks - depending on the level of player we are acquiring - but it is possible to get a decent, although usually overpaid, player.

The other reason a TPE is so valuable is it would carry into next off-season. I maintain, though, that there is no way we are just dumping Theis. He is just way too valuable to what we do on this team. I love dangercart, but that is a terrible trade - Hill and Muscala? You've got to be kidding me.

TP jamb! Said it all so I wouldn't have too.

[Smartacus]

Edit: This is old and is nothing. Removed.

[jbpats]

https://mobile.twitter.com/flybyknite/status/1330289719914205188?s=10

Dont look now but Terry Rozier might be on the move.

Not really a lot of evidence to draw such a conclusion
Could be traveling for thanksgiving

[RodyTur10]

https://mobile.twitter.com/flybyknite/status/1330289719914205188?s=10

Dont look now but Terry Rozier might be on the move.

Is this a joke?  (otherwise, this is old footage from a couple of days ago)

[Roy H.]

OKC signed-and-traded Gallinari to ATL today.  The cost was a conditional second.

[Smartacus]

https://mobile.twitter.com/flybyknite/status/1330289719914205188?s=10

Dont look now but Terry Rozier might be on the move.

Not really a lot of evidence to draw such a conclusion
Could be traveling for thanksgiving

Sorry for the false alarm, I dont know how to Twitter.

Move along folks nothing to see here.

[keevsnick]

OKC signed-and-traded Gallinari to ATL today.  The cost was a conditional second.

https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/1331395209922490370?s=20

Yep, it would appear the price for a sign an trade shouldn't be much at all. At this point it appears probably no more than a single second round pick. The delay is probably CHA trying to find a team to take Rozier/Zeller/Batum so they dont have to stretch Batum.

[Roy H.]

What are Charlotte’s feelings on Malik Monk?  PJ Washington?

Does it make sense to trade them for little return rather than stretch Batum?

[nickagneta]

What are Charlotte’s feelings on Malik Monk?  PJ Washington?

Does it make sense to trade them for little return rather than stretch Batum?

You'll never get Washington out of them. They think highly of him after what he showed as a rookie.

Of course, we are talking Michael Jordan, the GM version, so anything is possible, regardless of how stupid it may be for Charlotte.

[RodyTur10]

I'm thinking whether there's a possibility to trade Walker (possibly within this likely sign-and-trade construction). It's not easy to trade such a big contract, so maybe it works when there are already big money transactions flowing.

What the Celtics need is a guard and (power) forward replacement for Walker and Hayward that fit the timeline of Tatum and Brown. They don't need to be (former) All Stars like Walker and Hayward, but guys who are good NBA players who are not (huge) defensive liabilities, can stretch the floor (a bit), don't require huge usage, available for trade, not in line for a massive extension and have a salary that doesn't put us in the luxury tax.

A couple of options

Guard: Rozier, Dinwiddie, White, Fultz, Rubio, LaVine, Hield, Fournier, Ross
Forward: John Collins (?), Markkanen, Otto Porter, Aaron Gordon, Randle, Barnes, Nance Jr

It cost Philadelphia a future 1st and a 2nd rounder to trade away Horford. Thus the cost of shredding salary isn't incredibly high. Still we'd need to give up some in such an exchange. Since Theis is in line for an extension next year (and Celtics don't want to pay up for centers, while somehow Celtics player tend to be overpaid in the open market) he's a good option. We can trade a 1st rounder. Also Edwards and Ojeleye may still have a little value. In the deals below there are favors for Charlotte as well, thus they can give up 1st as well.

Below I'm not going to make specific deals, but just basics of a deal. Seems to me like New York, Orlando, Chicago, Sacramento are possible trade partners (and to a lesser extend San Antonio and Cleveland).

The cheapest and easiest way would be with New York (though most people won't be thrilled with Rozier and Randle):

To Boston: Randle, Rozier
To Charlotte: Hayward
To New York: Walker

With Orlando (would be funny to develop Fultz into a legit starting PG, this deal shouldn't cost us any other assets):

To Boston: Fultz, Gordon, Zeller (expiring)
To Charlotte: Hayward, Theis
To Orlando: Walker

With Chicago (lots of options with the Bulls, but also difficult):

To Boston: LaVine, Markkanen, Porter (expiring)
To Charlotte: Hayward, Theis
To Chicago: Walker, Zeller (+ assets)

With Sacramento (looks weird, but in theory it works I think):

To Boston: Hield, Barnes
To Charlotte: Walker, Hayward
To Sacramento: Rozier, Batum

Are these all garbage proposals? Should we just ride it out with Walker the coming years?
Do you think it's possible to acquire an All Star like Beal for Walker (+ assets) on a reasonable deal?
Do we need to wait a year to sort things out, try to build up value (for Walker and rookies)?
Or would waiting only make it more difficult to trade Walker's contract (until it becomes an expiring contract)?

[Darth_Yoda]

I'm thinking whether there's a possibility to trade Walker (possibly within this likely sign-and-trade construction). It's not easy to trade such a big contract, so maybe it works when there are already big money transactions flowing.

What the Celtics need is a guard and (power) forward replacement for Walker and Hayward that fit the timeline of Tatum and Brown. They don't need to be (former) All Stars like Walker and Hayward, but guys who are good NBA players who are not (huge) defensive liabilities, can stretch the floor (a bit), don't require huge usage, available for trade, not in line for a massive extension and have a salary that doesn't put us in the luxury tax.

A couple of options

Guard: Rozier, Dinwiddie, White, Fultz, Rubio, LaVine, Hield, Fournier, Ross
Forward: John Collins (?), Markkanen, Otto Porter, Aaron Gordon, Randle, Barnes, Nance Jr

It cost Philadelphia a future 1st and a 2nd rounder to trade away Horford. Thus the cost of shredding salary isn't incredibly high. Still we'd need to give up some in such an exchange. Since Theis is in line for an extension next year (and Celtics don't want to pay up for centers, while somehow Celtics player tend to be overpaid in the open market) he's a good option. We can trade a 1st rounder. Also Edwards and Ojeleye may still have a little value. In the deals below there are favors for Charlotte as well, thus they can give up 1st as well.

Below I'm not going to make specific deals, but just basics of a deal. Seems to me like New York, Orlando, Chicago, Sacramento are possible trade partners (and to a lesser extend San Antonio and Cleveland).

The cheapest and easiest way would be with New York (though most people won't be thrilled with Rozier and Randle):

To Boston: Randle, Rozier
To Charlotte: Hayward
To New York: Walker

With Orlando (would be funny to develop Fultz into a legit starting PG, this deal shouldn't cost us any other assets):

To Boston: Fultz, Gordon, Zeller (expiring)
To Charlotte: Hayward, Theis
To Orlando: Walker

With Chicago (lots of options with the Bulls, but also difficult):

To Boston: LaVine, Markkanen, Porter (expiring)
To Charlotte: Hayward, Theis
To Chicago: Walker, Zeller (+ assets)

With Sacramento (looks weird, but in theory it works I think):

To Boston: Hield, Barnes
To Charlotte: Walker, Hayward
To Sacramento: Rozier, Batum

Are these all garbage proposals? Should we just ride it out with Walker the coming years?
Do you think it's possible to acquire an All Star like Beal for Walker (+ assets) on a reasonable deal?
Do we need to wait a year to sort things out, try to build up value (for Walker and rookies)?
Or would waiting only make it more difficult to trade Walker's contract (until it becomes an expiring contract)?

Barnes is a good target. He would fill very well off the bench  can play 2 positions, defends, makes 3s

[knuckleballer]

Barnes makes $22.2 million.  We only have about 16 million available until we hit the hard cap.  Even trading away Langford wouldn’t be enough.  Or even Langford plus Semi.  Barnes is not an option without trading away a player better than Barnes.  Barnes isn’t happening.

[boscel33]

For those wanting to deal Walker as part of a S&T, believe he has a 15% trade kicker so that's going to be challenging to do.