Now DA should be on the hot seat

[Darth_Yoda]

I'm still dumbfounded over Ainge drafting Langford instead of Brandon Clarke.
An injured, inconsistent guard with a bad outside shot instead of a strong, smart post player who made the All-Rookie team.

He really does have a strange obsession with perimeter guys when it has been obvious for a few years that we need help inside - even when Horford was here. But he keeps losing them in favor of acquiring perimeter guys. Is he blind ?

He was a perimeter guy and did he ever play with a dominate bigman? Parish was great but not sure I would call him a dominate bigman.

[cman88]

have any new stories about hayward come out?

because Boston sports media is still riding this narrative that Hayward really wanted to go to Indiana and Ainge squeezed them so he went to his second choice, Charlotte.

But, I somehow doubt Indiana was going to pay hayward 4 years 120million fully guaranteed.

but it makes for a better story.

[gouki88]

I'm still dumbfounded over Ainge drafting Langford instead of Brandon Clarke.
An injured, inconsistent guard with a bad outside shot instead of a strong, smart post player who made the All-Rookie team.

He really does have a strange obsession with perimeter guys when it has been obvious for a few years that we need help inside - even when Horford was here. But he keeps losing them in favor of acquiring perimeter guys. Is he blind ?

He was a perimeter guy and did he ever play with a dominate bigman? Parish was great but not sure I would call him a dominate bigman.

Kevin McHale...

Ainge played with arguably the greatest front-court ever assembled

[ederson]

I'm still dumbfounded over Ainge drafting Langford instead of Brandon Clarke.
An injured, inconsistent guard with a bad outside shot instead of a strong, smart post player who made the All-Rookie team.

He really does have a strange obsession with perimeter guys when it has been obvious for a few years that we need help inside - even when Horford was here. But he keeps losing them in favor of acquiring perimeter guys. Is he blind ?

He was a perimeter guy and did he ever play with a dominate bigman? Parish was great but not sure I would call him a dominate bigman.

Kevin McHale...

Ainge played with arguably the greatest front-court ever assembled

and that is why he got this inferiority complex and will never draft a big man (the complex kicks in only for the draft. he feels ok trading for them and signing them)    


#sarcarm mode off

[todd_days_41]

Typical overreaction — amusing:

The simple fact is, if a bad team with cap space was willing to offer what CHA did to Hayward, and he was willing to take it, some sort of IND deal likely wasn’t happening at the end of the day anyway. Do people think Jordan’s phone would have magically stopped working if Ainge and the Pacers agreed to some version of a deal on their end? It was up to Hayward — not Ainge.

Oh, and by the way, Ainge simply may not have liked a Turner / McDermott combo. With a Tatum extension coming, he has to navigate the hard cap and may prefer the large trade exception he hopes to get from CHA anyway.

This is not fantasy sports. Ainge has to make calls he believe in. He may not have felt an IND package without TJ Warren was actually desirable. And I’m fine with that if he has an alternative plan, because Turner is not exactly Bill Russell.

good points, and a much needed tp for you.

it's as if people are arguing that ainge should have forced hayward - an unrestricted free agent - to sign with indiana for less money.

hayward held all the cards and decided money trumped all else.

Thanks. We’ll learn a lot more in the coming weeks -- jury is still out on what we receive from Charlotte or a third team (if anything). One interesting thought: if CHA threw in $5MIL in cash, would Wyc agree to pay Batum this year? I believe the total check would be lowered by escrow considerably, and he’d be a decent fit as a back up wing.

To the poster who points out Ainge’s miss on drafting Clarke, I’d say this: is there any weaker part of Danny’s game than drafting between 11-20? Talk about a rocky road over the years.

1) I’m generally bullish on Ainge, who is a very good GM and has made some historically world class deals over the years, 2) I’m not giving up on Langford — who is talented and showed flashed of being a plus defender (surprisingly), and 3) lord knows I hope the trend is bucked with Nesmith.

But otherwise, it’s not been a good run in that range for Ainge (not that 21-30 is much better — and I’m pretty confident this years 26th and 30th pick decisions won’t look like good ones before long).

[Darth_Yoda]

I'm still dumbfounded over Ainge drafting Langford instead of Brandon Clarke.
An injured, inconsistent guard with a bad outside shot instead of a strong, smart post player who made the All-Rookie team.

He really does have a strange obsession with perimeter guys when it has been obvious for a few years that we need help inside - even when Horford was here. But he keeps losing them in favor of acquiring perimeter guys. Is he blind ?

He was a perimeter guy and did he ever play with a dominate bigman? Parish was great but not sure I would call him a dominate bigman.

Kevin McHale...

Ainge played with arguably the greatest front-court ever assembled

Yeah, forgot about McHale.

[Big333223]

2 things:

I've seen multiple reports that both the Celtics and Pacers were offering Hayward $100 million but he chose Indiana and then chose Charlotte when they offered more money. That means Hayward didn't want to be here. Maybe he didn't like being the 4th or 5th most important guy on the team. Whatever it was, he was an unrestricted FA so if he didn't want to be here, then Danny never had any control over whether or not he left.

As for losing him for nothing or being able to get something in return: on Lowe's podcast he says that the big sticking point in the Celtics/Pacers trade talk was that the Celtics don't like Myles Turner and the Pacers didn't want to include Oladipo or Warren. I've been higher on Turner than a lot of people but if Danny flat out thinks that Tristan Thompson is as good or better than Turner and he knew he could get Thompson the the question becomes, which is a better return on Hayward:

Myles Turner and McDermott or Tristan Thompson, Jeff Teague, and a shot at a big trade exception.

Allowing for differences of opinion in the Thompson/Turner evaluations and not knowing if there will be a s&t or not, Danny might have made the most of this situation after all.

[RodyTur10]

2 things:

I've seen multiple reports that both the Celtics and Pacers were offering Hayward $100 million but he chose Indiana and then chose Charlotte when they offered more money. That means Hayward didn't want to be here. Maybe he didn't like being the 4th or 5th most important guy on the team. Whatever it was, he was an unrestricted FA so if he didn't want to be here, then Danny never had any control over whether or not he left.

As for losing him for nothing or being able to get something in return: on Lowe's podcast he says that the big sticking point in the Celtics/Pacers trade talk was that the Celtics don't like Myles Turner and the Pacers didn't want to include Oladipo or Warren. I've been higher on Turner than a lot of people but if Danny flat out thinks that Tristan Thompson is as good or better than Turner and he knew he could get Thompson the the question becomes, which is a better return on Hayward:

Myles Turner and McDermott or Tristan Thompson, Jeff Teague, and a shot at a big trade exception.

Allowing for differences of opinion in the Thompson/Turner evaluations and not knowing if there will be a s&t or not, Danny might have made the most of this situation after all.

We don't know whether we will get something out of that Charlotte deal, and if it's a TPE how useful it's going to be.

As it stands right now I'd have made a deal with the Pacers. I'm not the biggest Myles Turner fan (I even started a topic on this blog, where I argued that Aaron Gordon would be a better fit than Turner), but he's younger, more versatile and still has untapped potential in comparison with Tristan Thompson.

Jeff Teague to me is just a name with a reputation, who'll probably disappoint a lot of fans. There are enough 3rd string guards available for the minimum.

[Csfan1984]

Last year's trade deadline was probably the best time to have dealt Hayward. Any one else feel that DA should have moved him then?

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I'd be game. Rozier had a rough last year in Boston, but he's a good player that had important moments for us.

I don't think we can blame Rozier too much. He was working to get his big contract. His performance that season could have meant the difference in millions of dollars. He was trying too hard. We all do that sometimes.

I mean, if there wasn't room for Hayward to get his looks, there definitely wasn't room for Rozier either. Too many mouths to feed.

[Roy H.]

Last year's trade deadline was probably the best time to have dealt Hayward. Any one else feel that DA should have moved him then?

Nope, and I’m not sure that I saw a single thread about it, either.

[Csfan1984]

Last year's trade deadline was probably the best time to have dealt Hayward. Any one else feel that DA should have moved him then?

Nope, and I’m not sure that I saw a single thread about it, either.

There were a few threads on trading Hayward right up to deadline. A few center on the very issue of getting nothing if he opts out and is just signed.

[tenn_smoothie]

I'm still dumbfounded over Ainge drafting Langford instead of Brandon Clarke.
An injured, inconsistent guard with a bad outside shot instead of a strong, smart post player who made the All-Rookie team.

He really does have a strange obsession with perimeter guys when it has been obvious for a few years that we need help inside - even when Horford was here. But he keeps losing them in favor of acquiring perimeter guys. Is he blind ?

He was a perimeter guy and did he ever play with a dominate bigman? Parish was great but not sure I would call him a dominate bigman.

Kevin McHale...

Ainge played with arguably the greatest front-court ever assembled

Yeah, forgot about McHale.

 ............. and Cedric Maxwell and Bill Walton.

Even though Ainge played with the greatest frontcourt in history, he always spoke with admiration for the Lakers athletic, fast breaking style of play.
Did he forget 1984 ? Yeah, I know the game has changed, but still the best teams are very strong inside.

[Csfan1984]

I'm still dumbfounded over Ainge drafting Langford instead of Brandon Clarke.
An injured, inconsistent guard with a bad outside shot instead of a strong, smart post player who made the All-Rookie team.

He really does have a strange obsession with perimeter guys when it has been obvious for a few years that we need help inside - even when Horford was here. But he keeps losing them in favor of acquiring perimeter guys. Is he blind ?

He was a perimeter guy and did he ever play with a dominate bigman? Parish was great but not sure I would call him a dominate bigman.

Kevin McHale...

Ainge played with arguably the greatest front-court ever assembled

Yeah, forgot about McHale.

 ............. and Cedric Maxwell and Bill Walton.

Even though Ainge played with the greatest frontcourt in history, he always spoke with admiration for the Lakers athletic, fast breaking style of play.
Did he forget 1984 ? Yeah, I know the game has changed, but still the best teams are very strong inside.

Maybe it's BS and not DA. DA used to draft bigs. Big Al, Perk, Powe, Davis, JaJuan, Melo all more in the paint bigs.
Then BS came in and it was stretch and switch defending bigs or nothing. BS doesn't like to play bigs so why put a priority on getting them. You probably need only one above league avg big on the team the way BS coaches and uses them. If TT didn't shoot the three at a decent percentage last year he would have never been signed. Feel it has to do with BS more than DA.

[Kernewek]

Well the game has changed quite substantially since the days of McHale, Bird, & Parish. It's even changed quite a bit from when KG & co were holding down the best defense in the NBA a decade ago. Being "strong inside" means different things than it used to -- just ask Roy Hibbert.

For anyone with 20 minutes and wants some more in-depth stuff, Francesco Nanni has some pretty interesting reads from earlier in the year about some of the more common moves regarding switching, etc:

1) on how teams often attack the Celtics defense in particular: https://medium.com/@francesconanni/boston-celtics-ice-punish-prevent-it-4b01d25f405c

2) on how teams attack switching in general: https://medium.com/@francesconanni/boomerang-different-layers-of-an-action-712ff239f31f