IF you had to choose to keep one: Kemba or Hayward? (poll)

[PAOBoston]

Assuming both are healthy it is Hayward without a doubt. Good size,  good ball handler, good shooter, solid defender.

[Big333223]

I'm also a little surprised that Hayward is leading this poll.

Walker's knee is a concern but Hayward is at least as much of an injury worry. They're the same age. Similar abilities as shooters. Kemba is a better scorer, playmaker, and leader. Hayward is a better defender.

All in all, I think Kemba is the better player and the Celtics are deeper at Hayward's position. It feels like Walker is the one to keep (if that decision had to be made).

He also offers more positional flexibility, though. Kemba has to play at PG, so if another PG was brought in we would have to reduce minutes somewhere. With Hayward, it doesn't really matter that he plays the same position as Brown/Tatum because all three of them can play the 2/3/4.  You can get away with a very wing-heavy rotation much more easily than a PG-heavy one. It's the same case with guys that can only play C (like Theis, Kanter, and Timelord)

I think that's true. But if Hayward's versatility and the team's depth at that position make that argument basically a wash I still think Kemba is just the better player.

The funny thing is, Hayward provides more pg capability than Kemba

I disagree. This is one of the reasons I prefer Kemba. I think Hayward's playmaking is overrated. He's got pretty good vision and makes the right pass but only once in his career has he averaged more than 4.1 apg even though that offense in Utah was built around him. Assists are probably overrated as a passing metric but it confirms what I feel I've seen from him. He's a pretty good passer but he's not great. The way Hayward isn't great at anything.

[footey]

I'm shocked at the poll results so far because: 

1. We got ONE single productive season from Hayward in 3 years
2. Even in that one productive season he did have, we still lost him to injury during the most crucial time (playoffs)
3. There is still a question mark as to how well Hayward can fit alongside Tatum and Brown given he plays the same basic position
4. Unless he opts out and signs an extension (which per rumours seems unlikely) keeping Hayward at this point is essentially a 1 yr rental
5. There is also a concern in my mind that (because he plays the same position) Hayward will also potentially take minutes/touches away from Tatum and Brown

By comparison, if we look at Kemba:
1. Kemba plays the PG spot, where we lack depth - we can start Smart, but if he gets hurt we have no redundancy 
2. Smart is more of a combo guard (rather then pure PG) so having Kemba and Smart on the court together is no issue (it may even benefit Smart)
3. Smart is an energy guy who is as effective off the bench as he is as a starter - if desired he can back up Kemba and lead the second unit
4. The Kemba/Brown/Tatum offence was a key to Boston's success - having three >20 PPG scorers on court made them hard to shut down
5. Kemba is under contract for 3 or so more years, so we don't need to worry about him walking in free agency next year and bringing nothing back

I liked what both guys brought last year, but given Hayward's injury history (which has been far worse then Kemba's), contract situation, plus the fact that Kemba plays a position that we are much more in need of depth at...I feel Kemba is EASILY the guy who is more valuable to the Celtics moving forward.

Contract situation?? Hayward has one year left; Kemba has 3. 

We are a small team when Kemba is on the court, and it really hurts us defensively.  Hayward is as good a floor general as Kemba, maybe better, and with Smart starting, they can share the responsibility.  I like Kemba, but this is an easy choice for me (Hayward), especially when we go back to how we ended the season.

[PhoSita]

Kemba, easily.

I don't think this team has a good enough offense without a lead guard who can attack and shoot.  I like Marcus Smart to be in an auxiliary / secondary ball-handler role.

[Rikibellevie]

Kemba of course... Naturally... Like... 30% of the voters ??

Kemba is 100% mentally in the mood of the team, happy to be there... When Hayward apparently hesitate about his place for maybe many reason. Kemba was hurt... But he played, Gordy is our bad luck mascott and played only one time in the PO for us and never bring ma,y thing (ok because of injuries...).
And Kemba can be an incredible scorer, a better finisher and is a PG where I don't see at all Smart being the 1st ball handler with Gordy. We have already Tatum and Brown elite players at wing and Langford-Nesmith who are there to be good bench/role player option.  And Gordon needs and want at least the same as Kemba having the ball in his hands.   

So, for the future, the fit in the system,our team spirit and our luck I prefer 100% Kemba staying here. And Gordon had his time here, not Kemba, who still havebutterfly in the eyes with us.

[wiley]

Kemba of course... Naturally... Like... 30% of the voters ??

Kemba is 100% mentally in the mood of the team, happy to be there... When Hayward apparently hesitate about his place for maybe many reason. Kemba was hurt... But he played, Gordy is our bad luck mascott and played only one time in the PO for us and never bring ma,y thing (ok because of injuries...).
And Kemba can be an incredible scorer, a better finisher and is a PG where I don't see at all Smart being the 1st ball handler with Gordy. We have already Tatum and Brown elite players at wing and Langford-Nesmith who are there to be good bench/role player option.  And Gordon needs and want at least the same as Kemba having the ball in his hands.   

So, for the future, the fit in the system,our team spirit and our luck I prefer 100% Kemba staying here. And Gordon had his time here, not Kemba, who still havebutterfly in the eyes with us.

Agree with this post.  When we signed Gordon we didn't realize how good Tatum and Brown would become...so there it is...

[Atzar]

I voted Kemba because I'm (slightly) more confident in his health long-term.  It's already clear that Hayward has lost a lot of explosiveness after breaking his leg, and I'm worried that attempting to come back early from that severe ankle sprain may have some consequences.  Kemba has his own problems with his knee, but I'm (again, slightly) more optimistic that his condition can be managed. 

That said, I do think Hayward is the better player in a perfect world where both players are fully healthy. 

[Tr1boy]

The funny thing is, Hayward provides more pg capability than Kemba

I disagree. This is one of the reasons I prefer Kemba. I think Hayward's playmaking is overrated. He's got pretty good vision and makes the right pass but only once in his career has he averaged more than 4.1 apg even though that offense in Utah was built around him. Assists are probably overrated as a passing metric but it confirms what I feel I've seen from him. He's a pretty good passer but he's not great. The way Hayward isn't great at anything.

Kemba best assist numbers was 6.1 assist per season. And that was like 5 years ago

Kemba does not know how to beat traps, dismantle opponents schemes. He knows the basics . Best attribute is scoring

Hayward is able to execute the pnr much better.  Hit the rolling man or lob it. Two things you dont see Kemba do at all.   From there Hayward can pass it to the open man, take the shot or drive in for layup (which he was not able to do last season)

He is a better pg/mentality than Kemba imo

[PhoSita]

I'm sorry at what point did an opponent throw a box and 1 at Hayward?

[Big333223]

The funny thing is, Hayward provides more pg capability than Kemba

I disagree. This is one of the reasons I prefer Kemba. I think Hayward's playmaking is overrated. He's got pretty good vision and makes the right pass but only once in his career has he averaged more than 4.1 apg even though that offense in Utah was built around him. Assists are probably overrated as a passing metric but it confirms what I feel I've seen from him. He's a pretty good passer but he's not great. The way Hayward isn't great at anything.

Kemba best assist numbers was 6.1 assist per season. And that was like 5 years ago

Kemba does not know how to beat traps, dismantle opponents schemes. He knows the basics . Best attribute is scoring

Hayward is able to execute the pnr much better.  Hit the rolling man or lob it. Two things you dont see Kemba do at all.   From there Hayward can pass it to the open man, take the shot or drive in for layup (which he was not able to do last season)

He is a better pg/mentality than Kemba imo

Kemba doesn't know how to beat traps? The guys is a year removed from averaging 26-6 with 51eFG% with absolutely nobody to take the pressure off him offensively but he doesn't know how to beat traps? Are you confused about who Kemba Walker is?

Also, I'm not sure what part of your argument is supported by pointing out that Kemba averages more apg than Hayward.

[Tr1boy]

The funny thing is, Hayward provides more pg capability than Kemba

I disagree. This is one of the reasons I prefer Kemba. I think Hayward's playmaking is overrated. He's got pretty good vision and makes the right pass but only once in his career has he averaged more than 4.1 apg even though that offense in Utah was built around him. Assists are probably overrated as a passing metric but it confirms what I feel I've seen from him. He's a pretty good passer but he's not great. The way Hayward isn't great at anything.

Kemba best assist numbers was 6.1 assist per season. And that was like 5 years ago

Kemba does not know how to beat traps, dismantle opponents schemes. He knows the basics . Best attribute is scoring

Hayward is able to execute the pnr much better.  Hit the rolling man or lob it. Two things you dont see Kemba do at all.   From there Hayward can pass it to the open man, take the shot or drive in for layup (which he was not able to do last season)

He is a better pg/mentality than Kemba imo

Kemba doesn't know how to beat traps? The guys is a year removed from averaging 26-6 with 51eFG% with absolutely nobody to take the pressure off him offensively but he doesn't know how to beat traps? Are you confused about who Kemba Walker is?

Also, I'm not sure what part of your argument is supported by pointing out that Kemba averages more apg than Hayward.

so tell me, how did it workout vs Raptors or Heat?

Raptors were doing box 1 or whatever trap on him. He couldn't hit the open man for an easy bucket or leading to one

Against the Heat, his stats in general stunk. Heat trapped the Celts with different variations.  Couldn't get out of it when it mattered

Hayward came in game 5 and already the Heat were scrambling

Kemba couldn't finish at the rim, missing threes, didn't hit the open man ( like drive and kick)... look at his general assist numbers for the series

[Tr1boy]

I like Kemba.  We all knew what he was before the Celtics signed him.  That is not the point

but who has better "point" skills.  it is Hayward

Who is a better defender/versatile.  Hayward

Who is able to hit that one clutch shot.  Adv goes to Kemba

[Jvalin]

Can't think of a realistic trade scenario involving Kemba. Most obvious trade targets have already changed teams. Jrue went to Milwaukee. CP3 went to Phoenix. I'd love us to go after George, but I don't see the Clips moving on from him. At this point, I guess it's all about Hayward. Either he stays and we run it back or he leaves and hell breaks loose. The deadline for him to announce whether he'll pick up his option is less than 3 hours away...

[Silas]

Assuming they are both healthy, I would choose Hayward.  I believe he is a better all around player and we need his length.  The Cs just drafted two solid 3-point shooters that could make up for losing Kemba's 3s.  Hayward has shown skills as a point forward and could take over running the team.  The Cs need to lose either Kemba or Hayward to secure a starting 5.  Danny find a team to take Kemba.

[MikeB12]

I hope Hayward stays but doesn't look like he will.  I voted to keep Kemba...like his attitude it fits well with the team.  Not a great player but a good one.

MikeB  longtime Celtics fan