Woj: Hayward to Charlotte (4 years, $120 million)

[DefenseWinsChamps]

My theme for today is:

Figure it out!

I am starting to get a bad feeling that Ainge’s hardball will get us nothing and everything backfires.
I think he needs to accept Turner and McDermott, obviously assuming it’s there, and call it a day. TJ Warren and Turner would be robbery and I can see that ask constantly upsetting the Pacers enough to just walk away.

Only other hang up could be a third team is involved, but no reports til now are suggesting that’s the case.

Nah. He holds all the power. Hayward isn't going to sign for the MLE in Indiana, but he already bought a house and enrolled his kids in school in Indiana. Indiana wants him.

Ainge can wait. It may be tortuous for us, but the Pacers cannot acquire him without meeting the asking price and Hayward is not really considering going anywhere else.

Hayward definitely wants Indiana but the Pacers can absolutely determine he’s not worth it and move on. 
Hayward is not worth Turner and TJ Warren and if that’s what Ainge is demanding I can see the Pacers saying sorry Gordon go sell that home you proactively bought for no reason

They aren't gonna do that. They don't get high-level players often enough to be picky. Even if they have to give up two quarters and a dime for a fifty cent piece, it's worth it. Frankly, they've done so well with player development and draft picks that they can afford it.

[jbpats]

My theme for today is:

Figure it out!

I am starting to get a bad feeling that Ainge’s hardball will get us nothing and everything backfires.
I think he needs to accept Turner and McDermott, obviously assuming it’s there, and call it a day. TJ Warren and Turner would be robbery and I can see that ask constantly upsetting the Pacers enough to just walk away.

Only other hang up could be a third team is involved, but no reports til now are suggesting that’s the case.

Nah. He holds all the power. Hayward isn't going to sign for the MLE in Indiana, but he already bought a house and enrolled his kids in school in Indiana. Indiana wants him.

Ainge can wait. It may be tortuous for us, but the Pacers cannot acquire him without meeting the asking price and Hayward is not really considering going anywhere else.

Hayward definitely wants Indiana but the Pacers can absolutely determine he’s not worth it and move on. 
Hayward is not worth Turner and TJ Warren and if that’s what Ainge is demanding I can see the Pacers saying sorry Gordon go sell that home you proactively bought for no reason

They aren't gonna do that. They don't get high-level players often enough to be picky. Even if they have to give up two quarters and a dime for a fifty cent piece, it's worth it. Frankly, they've done so well with player development and draft picks that they can afford it.

I wouldn’t consider Hayward a high level player anymore. I also don’t see many teams lining up to sign him or trade for him.
4 years 100 mil is a pretty big overpay for him IMO especially based on his injury history. The Pacers are really bidding against themselves and at some point they will realize that the longer Ainge holds out.

[BruceBanner18]

I know we're assuming Turner is the main return but wouldn't surprise me if Ainge started the negotiation letting it be known we wouldn't be taking back Turner

[hardlyyardley]

Here's a thought....if we consider Turner marginal, why not leave Turner out of the deal...get Warren....if additional filler is needed....McConell as your veteran PG backup and sign Baynes as a free agent

[Roy H.]

I know we're assuming Turner is the main return but wouldn't surprise me if Ainge started the negotiation letting it be known we wouldn't be taking back Turner

Here's a thought....if we consider Turner marginal, why not leave Turner out of the deal...get Warren....if additional filler is needed....McConell as your veteran PG backup and sign Baynes as a free agent

I agree.  That’s why I suggested a Dipo / McConnell return above, if and only if we got a commitment from Baynes.

[wdleehi]

Here's a thought....if we consider Turner marginal, why not leave Turner out of the deal...get Warren....if additional filler is needed....McConell as your veteran PG backup and sign Baynes as a free agent

I wonder if they see Turner and his contract as way to trade in the future when an unhappy talent wants to be traded instead of having to use Brown.

[footey]

My theme for today is:

Figure it out!

I am starting to get a bad feeling that Ainge’s hardball will get us nothing and everything backfires.
I think he needs to accept Turner and McDermott, obviously assuming it’s there, and call it a day. TJ Warren and Turner would be robbery and I can see that ask constantly upsetting the Pacers enough to just walk away.

Only other hang up could be a third team is involved, but no reports til now are suggesting that’s the case.

Nah. He holds all the power. Hayward isn't going to sign for the MLE in Indiana, but he already bought a house and enrolled his kids in school in Indiana. Indiana wants him.

Ainge can wait. It may be tortuous for us, but the Pacers cannot acquire him without meeting the asking price and Hayward is not really considering going anywhere else.

Hayward definitely wants Indiana but the Pacers can absolutely determine he’s not worth it and move on. 
Hayward is not worth Turner and TJ Warren and if that’s what Ainge is demanding I can see the Pacers saying sorry Gordon go sell that home you proactively bought for no reason

They aren't gonna do that. They don't get high-level players often enough to be picky. Even if they have to give up two quarters and a dime for a fifty cent piece, it's worth it. Frankly, they've done so well with player development and draft picks that they can afford it.

I wouldn’t consider Hayward a high level player anymore. I also don’t see many teams lining up to sign him or trade for him.
4 years 100 mil is a pretty big overpay for him IMO especially based on his injury history. The Pacers are really bidding against themselves and at some point they will realize that the longer Ainge holds out.

I’d say with Harris getting almost $20mm for 4 years, in this market $25 per for 4 years for Gordon is about right. Teams with cap space are clamoring for him. He just doesn’t want to go there.

[greenhead85]

Questions: Until when can the team hold on to Hayward?
                Can he choose to just walk away now?

[pearljammer10]

Lot of surprising Turner hate.

Turner is an elite shot blocker. This doesn’t mean he is an elite defender but he is well above average. He can hit the three and space the floor. His per36 numbers are 16 and 8.5 with 2.6 blocks.



Turner is only 24, has already played five NBA seasons, is on a killer contract. Indiana did not use him properly. If you ever watched Indy play, they just have Turner stand there. Stand in the middle, stand outside, set a screen here and there, and they literally never give him the ball. He would kill it in Brads system.

[cltc5]

I’ve realized homerism gets in the way of common sense

[Surferdad]

Lot of surprising Turner hate.

Turner is an elite shot blocker. This doesn’t mean he is an elite defender but he is well above average. He can hit the three and space the floor. His per36 numbers are 16 and 8.5 with 2.6 blocks.



Turner is only 24, has already played five NBA seasons, is on a killer contract. Indiana did not use him properly. If you ever watched Indy play, they just have Turner stand there. Stand in the middle, stand outside, set a screen here and there, and they literally never give him the ball. He would kill it in Brads system.

I've always liked Turner.  Plays with energy and is an Olympian too.  Sure, he's not the best center in the league but I salivate at the thought of a much better balanced roster.  Maybe sign Noel for depth too.  Turner/R-Will/Theis/Noel with G-Will for small-ball.

Quote from: Greengang5 on Today at 07:27:49 AM

I am starting to get a bad feeling that Ainge’s hardball will get us nothing and everything backfires.
I think he needs to accept Turner and McDermott, obviously assuming it’s there, and call it a day. TJ Warren and Turner would be robbery and I can see that ask constantly upsetting the Pacers enough to just walk away.

Only other hang up could be a third team is involved, but no reports til now are suggesting that’s the case.

Indeed.  This shouldn't necessarily only be about getting back equal value, it's more about re-balancing the roster: You get a legit starting NBA center, and more shooting.  With McBuckets and Nesmith, wing depth is still fine without Hayward.

[dannyboy35]

Lot of surprising Turner hate.

Turner is an elite shot blocker. This doesn’t mean he is an elite defender but he is well above average. He can hit the three and space the floor. His per36 numbers are 16 and 8.5 with 2.6 blocks.


Turner is only 24, has already played five NBA seasons, is on a killer contract. Indiana did not use him properly. If you ever watched Indy play, they just have Turner stand there. Stand in the middle, stand outside, set a screen here and there, and they literally never give him the ball. He would kill it in Brads system.

    This is how I think Brad will use him too. JUST as you describe. Plus he doesn’t try hard all the time. Hayward fought for rebounds . Turner never has done this. Before or after Sabonis’s emergence.

[dannyboy35]

  I don’t mean they won’t give Turner the ball but it will be at the top of the key to launch 3’s. I DO think they’ll do that much with him, if he’s ever here.

[moiso]

Lot of surprising Turner hate.

Turner is an elite shot blocker. This doesn’t mean he is an elite defender but he is well above average. He can hit the three and space the floor. His per36 numbers are 16 and 8.5 with 2.6 blocks.



Turner is only 24, has already played five NBA seasons, is on a killer contract. Indiana did not use him properly. If you ever watched Indy play, they just have Turner stand there. Stand in the middle, stand outside, set a screen here and there, and they literally never give him the ball. He would kill it in Brads system.

I would have been thrilled to get Turner when he was 21 and finishing his second season but he hasn't improved and actually seems to have regressed since then.  I don't see his upside being nearly as high as I did a few years ago.   I don't see him as much of an improvement on Theis and would prefer that money to go elsewhere- preferably to Hayward if Turner is the best that we can do. 

[dannyboy35]

Lot of surprising Turner hate.

Turner is an elite shot blocker. This doesn’t mean he is an elite defender but he is well above average. He can hit the three and space the floor. His per36 numbers are 16 and 8.5 with 2.6 blocks.



Turner is only 24, has already played five NBA seasons, is on a killer contract. Indiana did not use him properly. If you ever watched Indy play, they just have Turner stand there. Stand in the middle, stand outside, set a screen here and there, and they literally never give him the ball. He would kill it in Brads system.

I would have been thrilled to get Turner when he was 21 and finishing his second season but he hasn't improved and actually seems to have regressed since then.  I don't see his upside being nearly as high as I did a few years ago.   I don't see him as much of an improvement on Theis and would prefer that money to go elsewhere- preferably to Hayward if Turner is the best that we can do.

  Me too. I’d rather sign Hayward, bring him back, prove his value and either it works great here like it did when he was healthy , or get something much better than Turner.
  Believe me I hope to be wrong. I’m wrong about a lot on the Celts.
 But there’s a reason Turner isn’t sought after my multiple teams. A shot blocking, good shooting floor spacer especially in today’s game.
 Why wouldn’t we want a guy like that? A better question is why doesn’t everybody want a guy like that? There’s a reason. Effort.