Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft - VOTES ARE IN

[Who]

To me Moses was the clear #1 pick just based on the dearth of great centers available.  I mean he is the only top 10 all time center in this, which just isn't true at any other position.

But is the gap between him and the second rung of centres in this draft that great? Sure the centre position is a bit thinner than other positions, but it's not like there aren't any centres who were top 10-15 players during their time available in this draft, and there's another historical giant who might be close to his level (emphasis on might) if you think highly enough of his game.

Yeah, I believe there is a good argument for that 2nd player being superior to Moses in this environment - this CB Historical League where we are basically building All-Star teams rather than regular NBA teams.

Moses had the big advantage on that 2nd guy in terms of aggressiveness / assertiveness / mental toughness to dominate out there. The other guy was more passive. That hurt him as a #1 type option while Moses thrived.

But in this environment, where every team will have 4-5 scorers, you do not necessarily need to be prolific in scoring. So that large advantage Moses had in the real NBA he may not necessarily have in this CB Historical League (dependent on how teams build around those 2 guys).

There is a good case for the 2nd guy. Superior man and team defender. Better defensive rebounder. Higher efficiency scorer. Better passer. While Moses is the superior one-on-one scorer and offensive rebounder. Both guys are comfortable in smaller roles but I reckon the second guy does it better.

It is an interesting idea. An interesting debate.

[RPGenerate]

Ready to have my mind blown (in a good way) from Somebody's pick.

[Somebody]

To me Moses was the clear #1 pick just based on the dearth of great centers available.  I mean he is the only top 10 all time center in this, which just isn't true at any other position.

But is the gap between him and the second rung of centres in this draft that great? Sure the centre position is a bit thinner than other positions, but it's not like there aren't any centres who were top 10-15 players during their time available in this draft, and there's another historical giant who might be close to his level (emphasis on might) if you think highly enough of his game.

Yes the gap is that great. You've pretty consistently underrated how good Moses is. Moses was an absolute monster.  The best player in the world for several seasons and probably the only guy available in this entire draft that can make that claim for more than 1 year (and that is only if you think Giannis is currently the best player in the world).  Impossible to guard and a top of the line rebounder on top of that. And a good enough defender that you will be fine with him on both ends.

Thinking that he was the best player in the world for any season in the late 70s/early 80s when Kareem and Bird existed is probably looking at Moses quite highly, much less a good chunk of that stretch . His offence was great but not game-changing (Houston dropped off a bit on that end as soon as their cast wasn't loaded with offensive talent) and his defence was good but not great. What makes his peak notably better than players like Erving, Kobe and Giannis? He was a great player, don't get me wrong, but being a box score monster doesn't make you a sui generis force among other all time greats, those players also had incredible box stats.

[Somebody]

With the 6th pick in the Historical Draft, the Houston Rockets select:

Kawhi Leonard

[Somebody]

BTW, I give a TP to every pick after it is made. Just a tradition of mine. So TPs everyone.

TPs to you too, for being such a great moderator during these historical drafts in the past!!!

Fun little fact...I created this game so I have commished it every time. This is the first one I haven't been the commissioner.

TP! Hope you can enjoy this one as a participant

[nickagneta]

I'm still contemplating between two players or a potential trade.

Hmm interesting. This tells me that Moranis is perhaps not very high on the next players on the board?

I think there was a clear top 4 and the next 2 I had very closely ranked, though a bit lower than the top 4.  After the top 6, there are about 5 or 6 players that I think are reasonably close together and become about preference. 

That said, I'm perfectly fine with the Mailman.  In the first ever CB Historical draft in like 2010, I took the Mailman at the end of the 1st round (and followed it up with Lebron to start the 2nd round - and boy was that Lebron pick debated heavily) and it worked out pretty well for me.

Imagine getting LeBron in the 2nd round now... Man!

I am not sure LeBron has been on any Pick 2 Draft, CB Draft or Historical Draft championship team. I remember LeBron's first year in Miami I had LeBron on my CB Draft team and that team was LOADED.

But I lost because a popular poster here convinced half the 30 owners that the 2nd guy chosen in the draft that year, Derrick Williams would be able to shut down LeBron in the playoffs.

So, besides Kobe, LeBron has a bit of a stigma in these games as well.

[Darth_Yoda]

With the 6th pick in the Historical Draft, the Houston Rockets select:

Kawhi Leonard

Thought people might forget about him.

[Moranis]

I will use Malone's 1st MVP season in 97. 

Played all 82 games at 36.6 mpg (upped it to 40.8 mpg in 20 playoff games).

27.4 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.6 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 2.6 fpg - 55% from field, 75.5% from line (8.4 attempts per game) for a TS% of 60.  28.9 PER, 16.7 WS (.268 per 48), 8.2 BPM, 7.7 VORP

MVP, 1st Team All NBA, 1st Team All Defense, All Star

Jazz won 64 games and took the Bulls to 6 in the Finals (they beat the young Shaq/Kobe Lakers in 5 and the Rockets with 3 HOFers in 6 on the way to the Finals).

According to bbref he also played 20% of the time at center so he should be ok to play the small ball lineups and won't struggle too much with guarding most of the centers in this thing (Moses obviously a clear exception)

[gouki88]

Knew it’d be Kawhi. Last of the two-way forces of that calibre remaining. Can shoot from 3 levels, plays elite defence, rebounds, is an improved passer and is clutch. Good pick

[RPGenerate]

I will use Malone's 1st MVP season in 97. 

Played all 82 games at 36.6 mpg (upped it to 40.8 mpg in 20 playoff games).

27.4 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.6 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 2.6 fpg - 55% from field, 75.5% from line (8.4 attempts per game) for a TS% of 60.  28.9 PER, 16.7 WS (.268 per 48), 8.2 BPM, 7.7 VORP

MVP, 1st Team All NBA, 1st Team All Defense, All Star

Jazz won 64 games and took the Bulls to 6 in the Finals (they beat the young Shaq/Kobe Lakers in 5 and the Rockets with 3 HOFers in 6 on the way to the Finals).

According to bbref he also played 20% of the time at center so he should be ok to play the small ball lineups and won't struggle too much with guarding most of the centers in this thing (Moses obviously a clear exception)

Good choice for year. Karl Malone's game aged like fine wine. He became a better passer and a more disciplined defender.

[Who]

Moses was my #2 option. I was going back and forth between him and Doc since I have found out I had the first pick. That is why I was re-watching some 1983 Sixers games. Trying to remember, trying to decide.

In the end, I went with Doc because I felt he was more fun to build around and that his game would adapt well to today's league. Plus, I was feeling like I didn't give him enough credit in past drafts so I wanted a do-over on that (and building a team around is the most fun creative way to do that).

I never really considered Giannis. I just wasn't comfortable with him. I had no fun ideas on teammates for him or team style of play. So I gave him short shrift. Perhaps unfairly.

It never even dawned on me that Kobe was an option for the first week. Then when looking at my draft board I was realizing I never even considered taking Kobe! And I was thinking to myself this guy is probably the most skilled most well rounded individual talent on the draft board. I gotta consider this guy!

So I did and Kobe had a strong case. In the end, I was worried about him taking shots from teammates. I wasn't wild about he played on Team USA or in some All-Star games or on that 2004 Lakers team. That made me nervous. I felt for his individual talent, there were other players that I was more comfortable with in terms of being apart of a team. So I passed on Kobe.

All that said, there is still a major advantage in having and building around the single most skilled most well rounded player in the draft. Kobe is a tremendous player. Just not my favourite to build around.

[gouki88]

Wonder if we’ll see some point guards go at the end of this round. Been very 6’6”+ heavy so far

[nickagneta]

With the 6th pick in the Historical Draft, the Houston Rockets select:

Kawhi Leonard

That was my #5 guy. Nice pick.

[Somebody]

Knew it’d be Kawhi. Last of the two-way forces of that calibre remaining. Can shoot from 3 levels, plays elite defence, rebounds, is an improved passer and is clutch. Good pick

I rate his 2020 season very highly - his jump as a passer really impressed me, he definitely jumped into the upper echelon of MVP candidates with his improvements last season (think LeBron/Curry/Durant/Giannis/AD).

[RPGenerate]

Wonder if we’ll see some point guards go at the end of this round. Been very 6’6”+ heavy so far

I assume we have to start seeing some white point guards coming off the board soon.