Author Topic: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward  (Read 9975 times)

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Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2020, 08:44:17 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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Another approach to Hayward: trade him for a 3 and D wing, bench scoring, and lower salary.

Why? Haywardís best skill is passing/playmaking. Heís underutilized as the Csí 4th option. Another team that needs those skills could give up a solid 3 and D wing who fits well next to Kemba and the Js. (Iíll say minimum 40% from 3). We address our bench scoring issue, *and* we get under the tax and can use the full MLE.

This trade works in the online trade machines, tho Iím a little suspicious there might be a glitch because the salaries are so unbalanced.

BOS sends Hayward to Indiana.
IND sends TJ Warren and Doug McDermott
https://tradenba.com/trades/vUOCGyiGN

That adds to the team that beat Toronto this year: (1) a 6í8Ē wing who shot 40% from 3 the past two years, plays solid defense; and (2) a bench SF who shoots better than 40% from 3, and is, generally, a smart, efficient offensive player. Oh yes, (3), cuts $15m from our cap sheet. (Like I said, I kind of canít believe that works, and if he had to eat a salary to even it up a little thatís ok as long as we are still dropping a good amount.)

Why Indy does it: Indyís offense can be stagnant. Hayward has the playmaking ability theyíre desperate for, plus heís a hometown boy who should raise interest in the team. The contract is a lot, but itís only steep for one year, and they might get an understanding heíll resign for something more reasonable on his next deal.

That leaves us a *lot* of flexibility in how we address what I see as our other needs. I would try to move up in the draft to get Hayes, Halliburton, or Okungwu, whoever the Cs like best, and use the MLE to fill the biggest remaining need; a ballhandler or big we think we could give some rotation minutes to in the playoffs.

EDIT: Iím definitely not against keeping Hayward, if we could sign him to a reasonable extension - s/thing like 3/60 or 65. But if he wonít, I donít want to lose him for nothing after next year.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 08:58:58 AM by Sophomore »

Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2020, 10:46:47 AM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Oladipo is interesting but he basically has the same injury problem as Hayward, if not worse because Hayward has had more time to recover

We can't play Turner or Sabonis against LA or they will get eaten alive

So no thanks.  More though because I am very down on the Indy pieces

Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2020, 11:51:39 AM »

Offline mrceltics2013

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Another approach to Hayward: trade him for a 3 and D wing, bench scoring, and lower salary.

Why? Haywardís best skill is passing/playmaking. Heís underutilized as the Csí 4th option. Another team that needs those skills could give up a solid 3 and D wing who fits well next to Kemba and the Js. (Iíll say minimum 40% from 3). We address our bench scoring issue, *and* we get under the tax and can use the full MLE.

This trade works in the online trade machines, tho Iím a little suspicious there might be a glitch because the salaries are so unbalanced.

BOS sends Hayward to Indiana.
IND sends TJ Warren and Doug McDermott
https://tradenba.com/trades/vUOCGyiGN

That adds to the team that beat Toronto this year: (1) a 6í8Ē wing who shot 40% from 3 the past two years, plays solid defense; and (2) a bench SF who shoots better than 40% from 3, and is, generally, a smart, efficient offensive player. Oh yes, (3), cuts $15m from our cap sheet. (Like I said, I kind of canít believe that works, and if he had to eat a salary to even it up a little thatís ok as long as we are still dropping a good amount.)

Why Indy does it: Indyís offense can be stagnant. Hayward has the playmaking ability theyíre desperate for, plus heís a hometown boy who should raise interest in the team. The contract is a lot, but itís only steep for one year, and they might get an understanding heíll resign for something more reasonable on his next deal.

That leaves us a *lot* of flexibility in how we address what I see as our other needs. I would try to move up in the draft to get Hayes, Halliburton, or Okungwu, whoever the Cs like best, and use the MLE to fill the biggest remaining need; a ballhandler or big we think we could give some rotation minutes to in the playoffs.

EDIT: Iím definitely not against keeping Hayward, if we could sign him to a reasonable extension - s/thing like 3/60 or 65. But if he wonít, I donít want to lose him for nothing after next year.


TJ Warren gives me Marcus Morris vibes, no thanks. Warren and Morris can get BUCKETS! But Iíd rather clean and solid ball movement. Warren and Morris are like ďgive me the ball and get out my wayĒ type players.  I donít believe the Celtics really need another scorer as we have 2 who need to keep developing. The Celtics desperately need someone who can facilitate the ball and lead the offense. If you are getting rid of Hayward you MUST replace that.

Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2020, 01:38:33 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Iíd have no interest in Oladipo.

Not a great fan of Turner but at least Iíd argue he fills a need.

Iíd be more interested in getting back someone like McDermott or lamb.

Exactly

Brogdon , Mcdermott and two 1st (right to swap) is my trade idea

Turner cant handle Bam, Giannis etc

Turner is inching closer to Channing Frye territory imo

Why would the Pacers trade Brogdon, McDermott and two firsts for Hayward?

At the end of the day,  if they really want Hayward, some give is required.  Brogdon/McDermott are not key cogs in their lineup

If its for Turner, I rather the Celts hold Hayward for another season ... and if he walks, thats fine.    Option to sign FA, instead being stuck with Turner

Turner running/side to side mobility is questionable.  Theis is even a better defender
Hayward leaving for nothing would be incredibly damaging to the Cs. They are already over the cap with no way of replacing any of that talent outside of an MLE. My rationale in a trade w/Indy would be to acquire other pieces on decent contracts that could fill a role on the team as well as be good tradeable contracts.

Hayward for Turner/McDermott (just an example) fills a couple of needs for the Cs and their contracts are tradeable. Turner isnít a super star but heís not as bad as some have made him out to be in the thread. I would say heís at least on par with Theis defensively and heís a better shooter and shot blocker. Heís also signed for a couple of more years while Theis has one year on his deal and could be looking for a pay increase as a FA next offseason.

Of course, my preference is to extend/keep Hayward but that only works if Hayward wants the same. If he opts into his option Ainge will have to seriously consider parting ways via trade for something (whether target is Turner or someone else) at the risk of seeing walk like Irving/Hayward and get nothing in return.

Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2020, 01:58:57 PM »

Offline JBcat

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The thing that Hayward that helps immensely with is his unselfish passing.  Playing with Tatum and Brown he allows them to flourish while also being a very capable scorer on any given night.  When we saw the 3 wing tandem of Hayward, Tatum, and Brown together the team played at a very elite level. 

Hayward also doesnít rely on elite athletism so he should age well.  If he opts out, and re-signs for 100 million over 4 years taking him to his age 34 season I would be happy with that.  He had a very good season averaging 17.5 points, 6.7 boards, and 4.1 assists.  Another year removed from the devasting injury will only help him.

Someone mentioned about Turner being the Jeff Green of centers, and I kind of believe that as well.  There is roughly a 8 point swing in net rating in Sabonisís favor (-3.3 for Turner and 5.1 for Sabonis) when either of them are playing the center position with the other off the floor against playoff caliber teams.  Turner doesnít excite me that much.  Oladipoís injury scares me, and he seems to rely on athletism in his game more than Hayward does.

Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2020, 02:03:53 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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What a debate!

If they trade Hayward I would root for frontcourt help as the last two years of playoffs have indcated that the Celtics don't have a frontcourt...unless I'm missing something,

The Turner discussion is interesting although, I don't know of the financial mechanics...

Turner shoots well from outside which Theis and the rest of the bench centers can't.

Turner indicates reasonable size for a starting NBA center, Theis is consistently playing against guys that are bigger than him.

Hayward doesn't fit on the Celtics roster now. When Walker was brought in Hayward became the 4th scorer. It has to do with the Kyrie + Anthony Davis attempt on the part of Ainge and what the heck he gave it the college try.

The Celtics need a center that can play adequately against top tier frontcourts because that is where the Celtics are going.

The Celtics don't need a center to run their offense through and the Celtics don't need another winger.

This is why I'm not concerned with Hayward staying here, he probably isn't because there isn't a "fit" with this team and this is the year for the switch.

Maybe Ainge can't get a frontcourt piece for Hayward, but, regardless of how the Hayward situation shakes out,  Ainge needs one.

If your argument is to build your playoff hopes around Thies, it is a weak one. Theis would make a superb backup center and he's waiting to prove it.



Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2020, 02:30:49 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Another approach to Hayward: trade him for a 3 and D wing, bench scoring, and lower salary.

Why? Haywardís best skill is passing/playmaking. Heís underutilized as the Csí 4th option. Another team that needs those skills could give up a solid 3 and D wing who fits well next to Kemba and the Js. (Iíll say minimum 40% from 3). We address our bench scoring issue, *and* we get under the tax and can use the full MLE.

This trade works in the online trade machines, tho Iím a little suspicious there might be a glitch because the salaries are so unbalanced.

BOS sends Hayward to Indiana.
IND sends TJ Warren and Doug McDermott
https://tradenba.com/trades/vUOCGyiGN

That adds to the team that beat Toronto this year: (1) a 6í8Ē wing who shot 40% from 3 the past two years, plays solid defense; and (2) a bench SF who shoots better than 40% from 3, and is, generally, a smart, efficient offensive player. Oh yes, (3), cuts $15m from our cap sheet. (Like I said, I kind of canít believe that works, and if he had to eat a salary to even it up a little thatís ok as long as we are still dropping a good amount.)

Why Indy does it: Indyís offense can be stagnant. Hayward has the playmaking ability theyíre desperate for, plus heís a hometown boy who should raise interest in the team. The contract is a lot, but itís only steep for one year, and they might get an understanding heíll resign for something more reasonable on his next deal.

That leaves us a *lot* of flexibility in how we address what I see as our other needs. I would try to move up in the draft to get Hayes, Halliburton, or Okungwu, whoever the Cs like best, and use the MLE to fill the biggest remaining need; a ballhandler or big we think we could give some rotation minutes to in the playoffs.

EDIT: Iím definitely not against keeping Hayward, if we could sign him to a reasonable extension - s/thing like 3/60 or 65. But if he wonít, I donít want to lose him for nothing after next year.


TJ Warren gives me Marcus Morris vibes, no thanks. Warren and Morris can get BUCKETS! But Iíd rather clean and solid ball movement. Warren and Morris are like ďgive me the ball and get out my wayĒ type players.  I donít believe the Celtics really need another scorer as we have 2 who need to keep developing. The Celtics desperately need someone who can facilitate the ball and lead the offense. If you are getting rid of Hayward you MUST replace that.

Iím not sure why youíre using the MM comp. Warren averaged 15 shots per game to 13.5 for Gordon, both playing about 33 minutes. And, critically, these werenít forced shots or bad shots: his TS% was an excellent .610 - about 20 points better than Hayward. On a better team, where he knows heís not the lead option (this ainít the Pacers!) he might settle into Gordonís attempt numbers or a bit less heck, if he just takes 2 shots from Marcus wouldnít that be fine? I think so. Heís solid on D - he routinely covered the best opposing wing. Imagine adding that to Brown and Tatum.

Where he trails Gordon is ballhandling and assists. Hayward gives you more there - which is the argument for the trade. That talent isnít fully utilized in Boston with the Js stepping up, and and so trading that ability rebalances the team by allowing us to bring in other assets - solid floor spacing on the starting five *and* the bench, *and* the full MLE to fill another hole.

Another way to think about it is: do we get past Miami last year if we start w the same group that beat Toronto, then add: (1) a year of development for the Js; (2) a veteran 3 and D wing (who shoots 40% from 3); (3) a veteran 40% plus 3-PT bench scorer; (3) whatever you want to bring on for the full MLE (Tristan Thompson? Aaron Baynes? a backup guard you like better than wana?); and (4) most likely, more help from the bench - from at least one of a more seasoned Grant, Timelord, Romeo? Possibly Hayes or Okungwu.

1-3 alone could be huge; 4 is gravy. If we had consistent play while the starters rested, and the starters were fresher in crunch time How much is that worth?.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 02:40:50 PM by Sophomore »

Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2020, 02:49:17 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I totally get those wanting to do "A Trade"......

We "DO" need to either make a splash trade-wise within the next year, have our top 5 players (The Jays, Kemba, GH and Smart) stay healthy for our ENTIRE playoff run OR perhaps TRADE :( one of those 5 to get a piece(s) that we need to propel us over the top.

The trade(s) discussed in this thread ALL have merit....I do find Turner and Oladipo intriguing. But I wonder if a trade for those two will be enough to beat LAL in a 7-game series.

I just don't think (IM0) that GH or Kemba for Turner and/or Oladipo is "THAT" significant of a trade....I don't know if the pieces going OUT in such a trade will weaken our team chemistry-wise.

Make no mistake about it The Los Angeles Lakers "HAVE" upped the Ante in Boston....them winning 17 "HAS" placed more pressure on us as fans AND on the organization in general.

Count me in the boat that we "MUST" do something........and do it soon....THIS YEAR, I think.

I think it would be DISASTROUS (at this point) for BOS to NOT AT LEAST make the Finals next season.....we've had 3 deep playoff runs the last few years...The Jays are maturing......

There IS the urgency to take THAT NEXT STEP....

I recall Ainge saying that he meant this past season to be a "Bridge Year", with Kemba coming onboard. I don't think he expected us to be "THIS GOOD" this fast....

We ARE.

Time to take that next step....I just hope us as a Fan Base are ready for what that may entail......

What I'm trying to say is that "IF" we make a trade IMO Danny needs to swing for the fences......

Greek Freak or some other Big Time C or PF that we as a fanbase may not have on our radar.

I don't think we HAVE to build our team to counter GSW anymore....need help up front and I'd hope that IMO it's either Greek Freak or The Stifle Tower.

Neither GF nor The French Rejection will come cheap....I get that. But like I said if we MUST do a trade I think Danny needs to swing for the fences. I've been wrong on here before and I hope I'm wrong THIS TIME.

Make no mistake about it, though - I think either Greek Freak or Rudy puts us RIGHT THERE with LAL.....if we don't pull off such a trade we NEED to rely on HEALTH to compete with LAL...and we all know unfortunately how THAT has played out for us the last 11-12 years..... :(
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 02:54:46 PM by GreenFaith1819 »
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Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2020, 02:50:23 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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If the Pacers want Hayward the Celtics should not be giving them three draft picks and Langford.  Turner doesn't help them as much with Sabonis and Oladipo wants out.  Send Kanter and the 30th pick for taking him as salary filler.

Then try to flip Olidepo for a better fit as a 4th or 5th option and a bench piece.

Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2020, 03:41:50 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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If the Pacers want Hayward the Celtics should not be giving them three draft picks and Langford.  Turner doesn't help them as much with Sabonis and Oladipo wants out.  Send Kanter and the 30th pick for taking him as salary filler.

Then try to flip Olidepo for a better fit as a 4th or 5th option and a bench piece.

Iím an Oladipo believer.  I think heís better than Hayward when healthy.  Heís basically a combination of Smart and Hayward.  If we add Turner for basically free, to me itís a steal.

I agree about trying to hold on to both Langford and #14, though.
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Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2020, 04:32:57 PM »

Offline moiso

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If the Pacers want Hayward the Celtics should not be giving them three draft picks and Langford.  Turner doesn't help them as much with Sabonis and Oladipo wants out.  Send Kanter and the 30th pick for taking him as salary filler.

Then try to flip Olidepo for a better fit as a 4th or 5th option and a bench piece.

Iím an Oladipo believer.  I think heís better than Hayward when healthy.  Heís basically a combination of Smart and Hayward.  If we add Turner for basically free, to me itís a steal.

I agree about trying to hold on to both Langford and #14, though.
It seems to me that Oladipo had one fluke year in 17/18.  He was awesome that year, but he wasn't awesome before that and he had regressed big time the following year before he got hurt.  He hasn't looked nearly as good as Hayward other than that one year.

Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #71 on: October 24, 2020, 04:38:43 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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If the Pacers want Hayward the Celtics should not be giving them three draft picks and Langford.  Turner doesn't help them as much with Sabonis and Oladipo wants out.  Send Kanter and the 30th pick for taking him as salary filler.

Then try to flip Olidepo for a better fit as a 4th or 5th option and a bench piece.

Iím an Oladipo believer.  I think heís better than Hayward when healthy.  Heís basically a combination of Smart and Hayward.  If we add Turner for basically free, to me itís a steal.

I agree about trying to hold on to both Langford and #14, though.
It seems to me that Oladipo had one fluke year in 17/18.  He was awesome that year, but he wasn't awesome before that and he had regressed big time the following year before he got hurt.  He hasn't looked nearly as good as Hayward other than that one year.

I disagree.  Oladipo has better career averages, a higher peak, and always has been a better defender.
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Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #72 on: October 24, 2020, 04:49:12 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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Too bad we couldn't get  Atlanta involved to pry Collins away in a 3 team deal.

Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #73 on: October 24, 2020, 05:26:38 PM »

Online gouki88

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If the Pacers want Hayward the Celtics should not be giving them three draft picks and Langford.  Turner doesn't help them as much with Sabonis and Oladipo wants out.  Send Kanter and the 30th pick for taking him as salary filler.

Then try to flip Olidepo for a better fit as a 4th or 5th option and a bench piece.

Iím an Oladipo believer.  I think heís better than Hayward when healthy.  Heís basically a combination of Smart and Hayward.  If we add Turner for basically free, to me itís a steal.

I agree about trying to hold on to both Langford and #14, though.
It seems to me that Oladipo had one fluke year in 17/18.  He was awesome that year, but he wasn't awesome before that and he had regressed big time the following year before he got hurt.  He hasn't looked nearly as good as Hayward other than that one year.

I disagree.  Oladipo has better career averages, a higher peak, and always has been a better defender.
Oladipo did have a great peak, but I fear his best is well past him. He's a mediocre shooter (over the last two seasons he's been a plain bad shooter), his athleticism isn't what it was and he's becoming more turnover prone.

For my mind he needs to take a leaf out of DeMar DeRozan's playbook and hone in on his passing if he wants to age well. Jimmy Butler too. Acknowledge that the athleticism is waning, and transition from a decent passing 2 guard like DeRozan and Butler were into legitimate point-forward type passers.
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Re: Rumor: Pacers interested in Hayward
« Reply #74 on: October 24, 2020, 06:00:32 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I like Turner as an option. Not saying he is a top ten center but what are the FA and trade options? There doesn't seem to be any better. I'd think you stay away from Oladipo. I'd rather keep Hayward than take Oladipo. If it's not Turner and say Lamb for Hayward then I'd think you get a third team to take Olidapo. Maybe Knicks as a third team to get their pick with

Knicks getting Oladipo, pick 14 and 26.

Pacers getting Hayward, DSJ and pick 30.

C's getting Turner, pick 8 and a trade exemption.

For C's it consolidates picks, gets a Center and provides cap flexibility.

Knicks get a guy to help lead their team plus multiple first to keep building.

Pacers get a wing that fits, a backup guard and a first for two guys that supposedly want out.