Author Topic: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner  (Read 1741 times)

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Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2020, 03:54:02 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Why not both?

Celtics trade: Hayward, 14, 26, and 30
for
Turner and Gordon


Pacers trade: Turner, Lamb and McBuckets
for
Hayward, and 14

Magic trade: Gordon
for
Lamb, McBuckets, 26 and 30.


C's go then have Walker, Brown, Tatum, Gordon, Turner as starters with Smart, Langford, and Theis as main bench.
Cause we cannot afford them going forward.

According to the latest projections (released just a few days ago), the tax line in 2021/22 will stand at $136,606,000.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:
  • Tatum re-signs with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max.
  • Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
  • We let Theis walk in 2021.
  • We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (never gonna happen, but it's the best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Tatum $33,724,200 (=30% of the cap)
3. Brown $25,794,643
4. Turner $18,000,000
5. Gordon $16,409,091
6. Smart $13,839,285
7. Langford $3,804,360
8. R. Williams $3,661,976
9. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,096,880
10. Edwards $1,782,621
11. rookie minimum $925,258
12. rookie minimum $925,258
13. rookie minimum $925,258
14. rookie minimum $925,258
15. rookie minimum $925,258

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $163,505,283

The Celtics would be $26,899,283 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + 8,071,952.75 = $71,821,952.75 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$72 million in luxury tax!
That shouldn't be a problem at all. Do it for one year then when Tatum kicks in deal someone to reduce salary.
Deal whom? I literally included 5 rookie minimum contracts which is clearly an unrealistic scenario! Forget the $72 million figure. In reality, it would be around $100 million in luxury tax!

I don't think it would be hard at that time to dump one of the two (Gordon/Turner) for value after a year considering both are still young. Letting either one go at that time brings you from 28 over to only 10 over. It may just be a way to roll over value.

Now if your goal is to get under the tax THIS YEAR to push back the repeater then ya, both isn't happening.

Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2020, 04:41:08 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Why not both?

Celtics trade: Hayward, 14, 26, and 30
for
Turner and Gordon


Pacers trade: Turner, Lamb and McBuckets
for
Hayward, and 14

Magic trade: Gordon
for
Lamb, McBuckets, 26 and 30.


C's go then have Walker, Brown, Tatum, Gordon, Turner as starters with Smart, Langford, and Theis as main bench.
Cause we cannot afford them going forward.

According to the latest projections (released just a few days ago), the tax line in 2021/22 will stand at $136,606,000.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:
  • Tatum re-signs with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max.
  • Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
  • We let Theis walk in 2021.
  • We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (never gonna happen, but it's the best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Tatum $33,724,200 (=30% of the cap)
3. Brown $25,794,643
4. Turner $18,000,000
5. Gordon $16,409,091
6. Smart $13,839,285
7. Langford $3,804,360
8. R. Williams $3,661,976
9. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,096,880
10. Edwards $1,782,621
11. rookie minimum $925,258
12. rookie minimum $925,258
13. rookie minimum $925,258
14. rookie minimum $925,258
15. rookie minimum $925,258

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $163,505,283

The Celtics would be $26,899,283 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + 8,071,952.75 = $71,821,952.75 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$72 million in luxury tax!
That shouldn't be a problem at all. Do it for one year then when Tatum kicks in deal someone to reduce salary.
Deal whom? I literally included 5 rookie minimum contracts which is clearly an unrealistic scenario! Forget the $72 million figure. In reality, it would be around $100 million in luxury tax!

I don't think it would be hard at that time to dump one of the two (Gordon/Turner) for value after a year considering both are still young. Letting either one go at that time brings you from 28 over to only 10 over. It may just be a way to roll over value.

Now if your goal is to get under the tax THIS YEAR to push back the repeater then ya, both isn't happening.
So bacically make the trade with a view to dumping one of them for cap relief a year from now? With all due respect, this makes no sense to me. I'd much rather keep Hayward and the 3 firsts.

Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2020, 05:04:38 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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Why not both?

Celtics trade: Hayward, 14, 26, and 30
for
Turner and Gordon


Pacers trade: Turner, Lamb and McBuckets
for
Hayward, and 14

Magic trade: Gordon
for
Lamb, McBuckets, 26 and 30.


C's go then have Walker, Brown, Tatum, Gordon, Turner as starters with Smart, Langford, and Theis as main bench.
Cause we cannot afford them going forward.

According to the latest projections (released just a few days ago), the tax line in 2021/22 will stand at $136,606,000.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:
  • Tatum re-signs with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max.
  • Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
  • We let Theis walk in 2021.
  • We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (never gonna happen, but it's the best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Tatum $33,724,200 (=30% of the cap)
3. Brown $25,794,643
4. Turner $18,000,000
5. Gordon $16,409,091
6. Smart $13,839,285
7. Langford $3,804,360
8. R. Williams $3,661,976
9. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,096,880
10. Edwards $1,782,621
11. rookie minimum $925,258
12. rookie minimum $925,258
13. rookie minimum $925,258
14. rookie minimum $925,258
15. rookie minimum $925,258

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $163,505,283

The Celtics would be $26,899,283 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + 8,071,952.75 = $71,821,952.75 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$72 million in luxury tax!
That shouldn't be a problem at all. Do it for one year then when Tatum kicks in deal someone to reduce salary.
Deal whom? I literally included 5 rookie minimum contracts which is clearly an unrealistic scenario! Forget the $72 million figure. In reality, it would be around $100 million in luxury tax!
Deal whoever they want. Maybe that's one guy or two guys or maybe they pay the tax, any which way that doesn't impact you this year. The choice is next year.

What people are already expecting is to add salary in a trade. That hasn't change. Unless you are in the, "let us just have Hayward expire or deal for someone expiring or a TPE" you are still adding salary. You actually have better options if who you add isn't just one massive contract.

Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2020, 05:08:03 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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  • Posts: 7275
  • Tommy Points: 191
Why not both?

Celtics trade: Hayward, 14, 26, and 30
for
Turner and Gordon


Pacers trade: Turner, Lamb and McBuckets
for
Hayward, and 14

Magic trade: Gordon
for
Lamb, McBuckets, 26 and 30.


C's go then have Walker, Brown, Tatum, Gordon, Turner as starters with Smart, Langford, and Theis as main bench.
Cause we cannot afford them going forward.

According to the latest projections (released just a few days ago), the tax line in 2021/22 will stand at $136,606,000.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:
  • Tatum re-signs with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max.
  • Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
  • We let Theis walk in 2021.
  • We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (never gonna happen, but it's the best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Tatum $33,724,200 (=30% of the cap)
3. Brown $25,794,643
4. Turner $18,000,000
5. Gordon $16,409,091
6. Smart $13,839,285
7. Langford $3,804,360
8. R. Williams $3,661,976
9. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,096,880
10. Edwards $1,782,621
11. rookie minimum $925,258
12. rookie minimum $925,258
13. rookie minimum $925,258
14. rookie minimum $925,258
15. rookie minimum $925,258

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $163,505,283

The Celtics would be $26,899,283 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + 8,071,952.75 = $71,821,952.75 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$72 million in luxury tax!
That shouldn't be a problem at all. Do it for one year then when Tatum kicks in deal someone to reduce salary.
Deal whom? I literally included 5 rookie minimum contracts which is clearly an unrealistic scenario! Forget the $72 million figure. In reality, it would be around $100 million in luxury tax!

I don't think it would be hard at that time to dump one of the two (Gordon/Turner) for value after a year considering both are still young. Letting either one go at that time brings you from 28 over to only 10 over. It may just be a way to roll over value.

Now if your goal is to get under the tax THIS YEAR to push back the repeater then ya, both isn't happening.
So bacically make the trade with a view to dumping one of them for cap relief a year from now? With all due respect, this makes no sense to me. I'd much rather keep Hayward and the 3 firsts.
Well you could probably still get a first for Gordon or Turner. In essence flipping your first this year to next year while being more competitive. That's a great position.

Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2020, 05:40:20 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Gordon would be an interesting addition I have concerns with his maturity, basketball IQ, and how his game projects into winning playoff games. With that said I have a lot of faith in BS and can see the appeal of Gordon playing next to Tatum and Brown. They would form a super athletic and versatile 2-4 combination. A lineup with Kemba,Smart,Brown,Tatum, and Gordon at the 5 would also be a nice way to create miss matches and Gordon could thrive as a rim running 5
Don't forget, Aaron Gordon is only 6'8", whereas Myles Turner is 6'11".

Unless you have a legit elite center Embiid, Jokic, KAT Iím not convinced itís a good idea to tie a large potion of the cap to a traditional center. Have Allstar or near Allstar talent 1-4 and 5 by committee is my preference.
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Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2020, 11:16:46 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Boston: Aaron Gordon, Terrence Ross
Golden State: Gordon Hayward
Orlando: Andrew Wiggins

I like the idea of Aaron Gordon playing PF and moving Tatum to SF. I also like the addition of Ross, to help with the bench.

I think Hayward would fit perfectly with the Warriors.

Orlando ges a legit scorer, who still has star potential.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 11:43:16 PM by johnnygreen »

Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2020, 12:12:50 AM »

Offline RPGenerate

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I think that people like the idea of Aaron Gordon more than who he actually is as a player. Hypothetically, Gordan should be the ideal player in modern basket. A hyper athletic guy that can defend multiple positions, finish at the rim at a high level, and stretch the floor with a good 3pt shot. However, in reality he's an inconsistent player that has great trouble playing within himself, causing him to make many dumb decisions on court and shoot bad shots. His 3pt shot is okay, but inconsistent.
2020 Celticsstrong No-Top 10 Histrorical Draft:
PG: Tim Hardaway Sr. / Jrue Holiday / Sam Cassell
SG: Joe Dumars / Danny Ainge / äarūnas Marčiulionis
SF: Alex English / Jamaal Wilkes / Bruce Bowen
PF: Cliff Robinson / Maurice Lucas / Robert Horry
C: Moses Malone / Mehmet Okur / Truck Robinson

Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2020, 05:40:05 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Gordon would be an interesting addition I have concerns with his maturity, basketball IQ, and how his game projects into winning playoff games. With that said I have a lot of faith in BS and can see the appeal of Gordon playing next to Tatum and Brown. They would form a super athletic and versatile 2-4 combination. A lineup with Kemba,Smart,Brown,Tatum, and Gordon at the 5 would also be a nice way to create miss matches and Gordon could thrive as a rim running 5
Don't forget, Aaron Gordon is only 6'8", whereas Myles Turner is 6'11".

Unless you have a legit elite center Embiid, Jokic, KAT Iím not convinced itís a good idea to tie a large potion of the cap to a traditional center. Have Allstar or near Allstar talent 1-4 and 5 by committee is my preference.

Your preference ended up with our heads being handed to us in the playoffs. This team needs a legitimate center.
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The Four Celtic Lieutenants:
Cousy - Havlicek - McHale - Pierce

Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2020, 08:04:15 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Gordon would be an interesting addition I have concerns with his maturity, basketball IQ, and how his game projects into winning playoff games. With that said I have a lot of faith in BS and can see the appeal of Gordon playing next to Tatum and Brown. They would form a super athletic and versatile 2-4 combination. A lineup with Kemba,Smart,Brown,Tatum, and Gordon at the 5 would also be a nice way to create miss matches and Gordon could thrive as a rim running 5
Don't forget, Aaron Gordon is only 6'8", whereas Myles Turner is 6'11".

Unless you have a legit elite center Embiid, Jokic, KAT Iím not convinced itís a good idea to tie a large potion of the cap to a traditional center. Have Allstar or near Allstar talent 1-4 and 5 by committee is my preference.

Your preference ended up with our heads being handed to us in the playoffs. This team needs a legitimate center.

First if Haywardís healthy vs the Heat this is a non issue and the Cs wing talent takes the series despite BAM

Second I agree the Cs center rotation was not at the level it needs to be for the Cs to win a championship. I think this only requires a better fitting minor acquisition not a big name/$$ player. If the Cs has Baynes rather then Kanter this past season he would have made a significant difference. Replacing R Williams and Porier with one big who can be trusted to defend if needed also helps a lot. Having Theis as the only reliable defensive center is not an option moving forward.    This is where Iím hoping for Tillman in the draft and players like Baynes, Noel, R Lopez in FA
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Re: Rather target Aaron Gordon than Myles Turner
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2020, 08:20:51 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Gordon would be an interesting addition I have concerns with his maturity, basketball IQ, and how his game projects into winning playoff games. With that said I have a lot of faith in BS and can see the appeal of Gordon playing next to Tatum and Brown. They would form a super athletic and versatile 2-4 combination. A lineup with Kemba,Smart,Brown,Tatum, and Gordon at the 5 would also be a nice way to create miss matches and Gordon could thrive as a rim running 5
Don't forget, Aaron Gordon is only 6'8", whereas Myles Turner is 6'11".

Unless you have a legit elite center Embiid, Jokic, KAT Iím not convinced itís a good idea to tie a large potion of the cap to a traditional center. Have Allstar or near Allstar talent 1-4 and 5 by committee is my preference.

I'm not convinced Aaron Gordon is only 6'8''. Watch his highlights. Maybe he has high shoulders or something, but he seems a lot bigger on the court.

I know that he probably doesn't want to deal with the wear and tear of it, but I think Gordon's best position could be center, similar to Draymond Green. You wouldn't want to play him at center every minute all season long, but I think he could have the greatest on-court impact at center.